Some honest answers please...

LouisBooth · May 29, 2002

Jerry, the point is that in science paradyme shifts are not easy things. the one away from evolution will not be easy, but its happening. You can hold on as long as you want, its not an easy thing to do. Like I said, check your history book.

chickenman · May 29, 2002

bigjon, you are very naive if you think the only reason people believe in evolution is to take god out of the picture - it has nothing to do with religion at all

Satoshi · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by BigJon
The reason for the importance is because evolution deletes God from the picture, wether people will admit it or not.

Evolutionary theory no more disproves God than Atomic theory, Germ theory, Cell theory, or Relativity theory. While it contradicts any God that specifically could not have allowed evolution, few people whom I know believe in this sort of God.

There are so many people out there are so wishy washy it isnt funny, they dont want to choose one way or the other, they want to strandle the fence. Evolution is not science, it is a belief system, therefor making it a religion.

Unfortunately, this goes beyond ignorance and looks to be a bare-faced lie. Evolutionary theory fulfills all of the requirements of a scientific theory, and precious few requirements of a religion. It you think that Evolution is some kind of religion, it's a religion on par with Atomic theory or Quantum Mechanics.

Evolution was first concepted as a way to get rid of God, now of course no body will admit to it, they wont admit there is a right and a wrong, they want to merge everything together and make everyone right in there own way, well sorry, evolution is wrong, God created the earth in 6 days. There was a flood and it killed everything excluding 2 of every creature and 8 people.

Unfortunately, your outdated notions are not supported by evidence. From your perspective, which would you rather study to learn about the diversity of life on Earth: life on Earth, or a book written by pre-scientific savages?

Now wether to believe it or not is up to everyone to choose, but to throw something so stupid as evolution in with God to mix and match to suit your likes is sickening.

Your false dichotomy is disheartening.

Jerry Smith · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Jerry, the point is that in science paradyme shifts are not easy things. the one away from evolution will not be easy, but its happening. You can hold on as long as you want, its not an easy thing to do. Like I said, check your history book.

Paradigm shifts are the inevitable result of the self-correcting processes of science. You know.. peer review, falsification, that kind of thing. Take your reasoning, use it to falsify evolution, and I will tell my grand-kids about how I once debated a future Nobel Prize winner.

That is all assuming that there will someday be a reason to shift paradigms away from common descent by evoluion/natural selection.

LouisBooth · May 29, 2002

*mod hat on* Sat and bigjon, watch it *mod hat off*

yeah, I know, like to spell it like that though, I caught it the first time there jerry. I actually READ posts

Satoshi · May 30, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
yeah, I know, like to spell it like that though, I caught it the first time there jerry. I actually READ posts

What an...odd thing to say.

npetreley · May 30, 2002

Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
I would like to know some things from fello Christians...

Why is it that creationism vs evolution, flood vs no-flood, are concidered so important to the faith.

IMO evolution vs. creation is important to the Christian faith, but that's not at all why I debate it here. I debate it because it's fun.

As for how important? EXTREMELY.

Does that mean you can't be a Christian if you believe in evolution? I hope not. I believed in evolution for years after becoming a Christian. Unless I was self-deceived about being a Christian, then obviously the two can coexist. I was just wrong about evolution, that's all. No big deal. If I was perfect, I wouldn't need Jesus.

If you are a creationist,would you loose your faith if evolution was proven true tommorow?

I'd certainly have to re-read the Bible a couple hundred times to see if it is possible to resolve the countless contradictions that evolution would introduce. Maybe it's simpler than that, but I certainly don't see it that way today.

AV1611VET · Jul 29, 2017

LewisWildermuth said:
I would like to know some things from fello Christians...

Sure thing!

LewisWildermuth said:
Why is it that creationism vs evolution, flood vs no-flood, are concidered so important to the faith.

Because we're dealing with miracles versus nature.

LewisWildermuth said:
If you are a creationist,would you loose your faith if evolution was proven true tommorow?

No. The object of my faith is not Mother Nature. The object of my faith is Jesus Christ.

What will change is where I go to church.

LewisWildermuth said:
How would it change the way you see God?

Not much. He would be less of a miracle worker and more of an observer. I would go from being less of a catastrophist to being more of a uniformitarianist.

LewisWildermuth said:
What about you evolutionists? What if creationism was proven? Would you loose your faith? Would it change the way you see God?

They'll probably complain I necroed this thread, rather than have to answer tough questions.

pitabread · Jul 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
They'll probably complain I necroed this thread, rather than have to answer tough questions.

I just want to know why, if you know this is considered obnoxious behavior, why you continue to do this?

Are you trying to be a forum troll?

AV1611VET · Jul 29, 2017

pitabread said:
I just want to know why, if you know this is considered obnoxious behavior, why you continue to do this?

Because I'm not going to let what some consider obnoxious behavior get in the way of good answers.

Did you learn anything from my answers? if so ... good.

If not, please don't be so naïve as to think others cannot.

pitabread said:
Are you trying to be a forum troll?

No ... an educator.

What are you trying to be?

pitabread · Jul 30, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Because I'm not going to let what some consider obnoxious behavior get in the way of good answers.

Answers to a question someone asked 15 years ago.

AV1611VET said:
Did you learn anything from my answers?

No.

Have you ever learned anything on these forums (specifically the C/E forums)?

AV1611VET · Jul 30, 2017

pitabread said:
Answers to a question someone asked 15 years ago.

What someone asked 15 years ago, someone else could be asking today.

Any school teacher can tell you that.

pitabread said:
No.

Wow.

pitabread said:
Have you ever learned anything on these forums (specifically the C/E forums)?

Yes -- a lot. I even correct my pastor at times.

Subduction Zone · Jul 30, 2017

pitabread said:
I just want to know why, if you know this is considered obnoxious behavior, why you continue to do this?

Are you trying to be a forum troll?

You could have learned more about AV. He openly admits that his faith is very very weak in his first response to the OP in the necro-thread. In response to the question of what how it would affect him if the theory of evolution was proved (and since it has been it is obvious that AV was not totally honest in his response) he said:

"No. The object of my faith is not Mother Nature. The object of my faith is Jesus Christ.

What will change is where I go to church."

In other words if evolution were shown to be true so that he could understand it he would no longer be a Christian. A Christian with a strong faith would simply adapt to the facts. He openly admitted that his faith is rather weak. Perhaps it is fear that keeps AV from learning after all of these years.

Seejer · Jul 30, 2017

randman said:
Science is limited by technology. It is thus a pretty poor basis for a belief system,

If I infer this right you are saying faith is not limited by anything and therefore it is great basis for belief system.

Problem with this is things like belief in young universe that has been made look older for whatever reason.

It is certainly possible although science does not agree but that is like saying universe gets destroyed every five seconds and remade in the remaining four seconds with us getting our old memories back every time.

You can believe that, wouldn't surprise me if some did, but nothing gives any decree of evidence that this is the case so we have to work with things like science because faith alone will not explain this universe.

bhsmte · Jul 30, 2017

LewisWildermuth said:
I would like to know some things from fello Christians...

Why is it that creationism vs evolution, flood vs no-flood, are concidered so important to the faith.

If you are a creationist,would you loose your faith if evolution was proven true tommorow? How would it change the way you see God?

What about you evolutionists? What if creationism was proven? Would you loose your faith? Would it change the way you see God?

What about the flood?

What if it happened?

What if it didn't?

This is not bait for an argument, I am really curious.

Speaking for myself, I tend to try to keep learning through my life and accept that I will be introduced to well evidenced realities, I had no knowledge of before. In fact, this is the reason I am no longer a Christian, because I acquired new knowledge over the years.

I find it very difficult, to hold onto beliefs, if well evidenced reality indicates, they are likely to be wrong.

AV1611VET · Jul 30, 2017

bhsmte said:
In fact, this is the reason I am no longer a Christian, because I acquired new knowledge over the years.

Acquired new knowledge?

Is that why you gave up all this:

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation;

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

... to become an atheist?

What is it that theistic evolutionists are clinging to that you gave up?

What new knowledge can you impart to theistic evolutionists to prompt them to follow your example?

HitchSlap · Jul 30, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Acquired new knowledge?

Is that why you gave up all this:

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation;

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

... to become an atheist?

What is it that theistic evolutionists are clinging to that you gave up?

What new knowledge can you impart to theistic evolutionists to prompt them to follow your example?

Example: Reality

bhsmte · Jul 30, 2017

HitchSlap said:
Example: Reality

Yep. To some though, well evidenced reality is scary, really really scary.

Goonie · Jul 30, 2017

Seriously isn't there some forum rule about ressurrecting threads? 15 years!

AV1611VET · Jul 30, 2017

HitchSlap said:
Example: Reality

5 + 4 = reality

Would it be too much to ask for something specific?

What "newly acquired knowledge" did you come privy to that theistic evolutionists need to see?

Some honest answers please...

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