Some contend against Blessed Mary

[Xeno.of.athens]

This seems to be

Seems to you, perhaps. Blessed Mary is not between the Lord and me. Blessed Mary is a saint to whom I pray asking her to pray for me to the Lord our God. Her role is like the role of my earthly friends and brethren who pray for me to the Lord our God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Seems to you, perhaps. Blessed Mary is not between the Lord and me. Blessed Mary is a saint to whom I pray asking her to pray for me to the Lord our God. Her role is like the role of my earthly friends and brethren who pray for me to the Lord our God.

Where in the Bible does it say we are to pray to Mary or anyone else except God? What you are describing is a mediator when we are told there is no mediator between man and Jesus and we should go directly to Jesus Christ!

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Where in the Bible does it say we are to pray

Everywhere, we are to ask our brethren to pray for us. Saint Paul asked those to whom he wrote to pray for him. This has been discussed before. There is no good reason to do it again.

For example,

Certainly, I give thanks to my God, through Jesus Christ, first for all of you, because your faith is being announced throughout the entire world. For God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit by the Gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I have kept a remembrance of you always in my prayers, pleading that in some way, at some time, I may have a prosperous journey, within the will of God, to come to you. For I long to see you, so that I may impart to you a certain spiritual grace to strengthen you, specifically, to be consoled together with you through that which is mutual: your faith and mine. But I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you, (though I have been hindered even to the present time) so that I might obtain some fruit among you also, just as also among the other Gentiles. To the Greeks and to the uncivilized, to the wise and to the foolish, I am in debt. So within me there is a prompting to evangelize to you also who are at Rome.​

Romans 1:8-15

And

Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,​

​

Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.​

​

2 Corinthians 9:14 while they long for you and pray for you because of the surpassing grace of God that he has given you.​

​

2 Corinthians 13:9 For we rejoice when we are weak and you are strong. This is what we pray for, that you may become perfect.​

​

Colossians 4:3 At the same time pray for us as well that God will open to us a door for the word, that we may declare the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison,​

​

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Beloved, pray for us.​

​

2 Thessalonians 1:11 To this end we always pray for you, asking that our God will make you worthy of his call and will fulfil by his power every good resolve and work of faith,​

​

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brothers and sisters, pray for us, so that the word of the Lord may spread rapidly and be glorified everywhere, just as it is among you,​

​

Hebrews 13:18 Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things.​

​

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Everywhere, we are to ask our brethren to pray for us. Saint Paul asked those to whom he wrote to pray for him. This has been discussed before. There is no good reason to do it again.

For example,

Certainly, I give thanks to my God, through Jesus Christ, first for all of you, because your faith is being announced throughout the entire world. For God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit by the Gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I have kept a remembrance of you always in my prayers, pleading that in some way, at some time, I may have a prosperous journey, within the will of God, to come to you. For I long to see you, so that I may impart to you a certain spiritual grace to strengthen you, specifically, to be consoled together with you through that which is mutual: your faith and mine. But I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you, (though I have been hindered even to the present time) so that I might obtain some fruit among you also, just as also among the other Gentiles. To the Greeks and to the uncivilized, to the wise and to the foolish, I am in debt. So within me there is a prompting to evangelize to you also who are at Rome.​

Romans 1:8-15

And

Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,​

​

Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.​

​

2 Corinthians 9:14 while they long for you and pray for you because of the surpassing grace of God that he has given you.​

​

2 Corinthians 13:9 For we rejoice when we are weak and you are strong. This is what we pray for, that you may become perfect.​

​

Colossians 4:3 At the same time pray for us as well that God will open to us a door for the word, that we may declare the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison,​

​

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Beloved, pray for us.​

​

2 Thessalonians 1:11 To this end we always pray for you, asking that our God will make you worthy of his call and will fulfil by his power every good resolve and work of faith,​

​

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brothers and sisters, pray for us, so that the word of the Lord may spread rapidly and be glorified everywhere, just as it is among you,​

​

Hebrews 13:18 Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things.​

​

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.​

Praying for someone and to someone are completely different things.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Praying for someone and to someone are completely different things.

Saint Paul wrote in Greek, not 21st century English. For you, the idea of "pray" may seem special but in Greek and in English 500 years ago the word meant "ask". So, to ask someone, and to ask on behalf of someone is still asking. Besides, I have explained this before. Even Shakespear uses "pray" to mean "ask". But if it makes you feel more comfortable, I can write "I ask Blessed Mary to pray for me to the Lord our God"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Saint Paul wrote in Greek, not 21st century English. For you, the idea of "pray" may seem special but in Greek and in English 500 years ago the word meant "ask". So, to ask someone, and to ask on behalf of someone is still asking. Besides, I have explained this before. Even Shakespear uses "pray" to mean "ask". But if it makes you feel more comfortable, I can write "I ask Blessed Mary to pray for me to the Lord our God"

Mary died a long time ago, and there is no scripture that says we are to pray to the dead or to anyone else but to God. The word pray or ask is not an issue, we are to pray to Jesus as He is our Mediator and the only one who can save us. When we start praying to other people aside from God it is getting into the territory of breaking commandment #1 and #2. Exodus 20:2-6

Again praying for someone to God and praying to someone other than God are completely different things.

This is how Jesus taught us to pray.


Matthew 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

there is no scripture that says we are to pray to the dead

We are to pray for the dead, and the dead pray for us. This is the teaching of the scriptures:

And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.​

2 Maccabees 12:43-45

When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Revelation 5:8

Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.
Revelation 8:3

And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
Revelation 8:4

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We are to pray for the dead, and the dead pray for us. This is the teaching of the scriptures:

And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.​

2 Maccabees 12:43-45

When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Revelation 5:8

Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.
Revelation 8:3

And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
Revelation 8:4

For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, Ecclesiastes 9:5

Nothing you posted in the inspire scripture says otherwise. I don’t consider Maccabee’s inspired.

Annyway, we will probably not agree and we will all find out soon enough when Jesus comes.

God bless.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don’t consider Maccabee’s inspired.

Indeed, that is why the doctrine presented in your post is in error.

 

[Valletta]

This seems to be putting Mary as a mediator between man and Jesus which goes against the scriptures. Praying to Mary for anything won’t help as she is human and died. I believe she will be in heaven once Jesus Comes to resurrect the dead in Christ, but thats besides the point.

We are told we do not need any mediator- we can go directly to Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:15 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Your teachings go against the Bible which tells us to pray for one another.

 

[Valletta]

I see that as a pointless distinction in semantics. The point is that we recognize her blessed contribution to redemptive history the same way we recognize John's ministry. She isn't anything special in any other sense.

You sure missed a lot about Mary in the Bible.

 

[Jonaitis]

You sure missed a lot about Mary in the Bible.

"From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer." - 2 Corinthians 5:16

Should we not follow the tradition of the apostles? Have we returned to elementary things?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your teachings go against the Bible which tells us to pray for one another.

You must not have read my post. I never once said we shouldn’t pray for each other, of course we should. However we do not pray to each other or to humans, we are to pray to God and God alone.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

However we do not pray to each other or to humans, we are to pray to God.

YOU (meaning people with views similar to those stated in your posts) do not pray to people but other people do.

 

[Valletta]

You must not have read my post. I never once said we shouldn’t pray for each other, of course we should. However we do not pray to each other or to humans, we are to pray to God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

YOU (meaning people with views similar to those stated in your posts) do not pray to people but other people do.

Jesus taught us to pray to God and scripture says we should not go to a mediator but instead go directly to Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 2:5 There is no example in scripture to pray to Mary or anyone else only to God. We have free will, my faith is in Jesus alone.

 

[Valletta]

Catholics, as per the Bible, ask or "pray" to others to pray for us and/or with us.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Jesus taught us to pray to God and scripture says we should not go to a mediator but instead go directly to Jesus Christ.

Jessu taught us to pray for others:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,Matthew 5:44​

bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.Luke 6:28​

Saint Paul taught, by example, Christians to pray for others:

while they long for you and pray for you because of the surpassing grace of God that he has given you.2 Corinthians 9:14​

For we rejoice when we are weak and you are strong. This is what we pray for, that you may become perfect.2 Corinthians 13:9​

At the same time pray for us as well that God will open to us a door for the word, that we may declare the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison,Colossians 4:3​

Beloved, pray for us.1 Thessalonians 5:25​

To this end we always pray for you, asking that our God will make you worthy of his call and will fulfil by his power every good resolve and work of faith,2 Thessalonians 1:11​

Finally, brothers and sisters, pray for us, so that the word of the Lord may spread rapidly and be glorified everywhere, just as it is among you,2 Thessalonians 3:1​

Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things.Hebrews 13:18​

When we pray for one another, we mediate. It is an error to interpret 1 Timothy 2:5 in isolation from its context because its context is an exhortation to pray and to intercede for one another.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

1 Timothy 2:1-6
Without its context your posts treat verse 5 as if it forbids intercession for others. As if having Christ as the only mediator who gave himself as a ransom for [the sins of] all, forbids Christians interceding for others, acting as mediators in prayer on behalf of others. The mediation of Christ, here in this passage, is that of the Saviour in his sacrifice for the sins of his people, and in this there can be no other mediator for no other sacrifice has been made for the sins of all. Yet the very same passage urgers that supplications, prayers, intercessions be made for all men, this is nothing less than to urge mediation in prayer for all men.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jessu taught us to pray for others:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,Matthew 5:44​

bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.Luke 6:28​

Saint Paul taught, by example, Christians to pray for others:

while they long for you and pray for you because of the surpassing grace of God that he has given you.2 Corinthians 9:14​

For we rejoice when we are weak and you are strong. This is what we pray for, that you may become perfect.2 Corinthians 13:9​

At the same time pray for us as well that God will open to us a door for the word, that we may declare the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison,Colossians 4:3​

Beloved, pray for us.1 Thessalonians 5:25​

To this end we always pray for you, asking that our God will make you worthy of his call and will fulfil by his power every good resolve and work of faith,2 Thessalonians 1:11​

Finally, brothers and sisters, pray for us, so that the word of the Lord may spread rapidly and be glorified everywhere, just as it is among you,2 Thessalonians 3:1​

Pray for us; we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honourably in all things.Hebrews 13:18​

When we pray for one another, we mediate. It is an error to interpret 1 Timothy 2:5 in isolation from its context because its context is an exhortation to pray and to intercede for one another.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

1 Timothy 2:1-6
Without its context your posts treat verse 5 as if it forbids intercession for others. As if having Christ as the only mediator who gave himself as a ransom for [the sins of] all, forbids Christians interceding for others, acting as mediators in prayer on behalf of others. The mediation of Christ, here in this passage, is that of the Saviour in his sacrifice for the sins of his people, and in this there can be no other mediator for no other sacrifice has been made for the sins of all. Yet the very same passage urgers that supplications, prayers, intercessions be made for all men, this is nothing less than to urge mediation in prayer for all men.

I said now four times we should pray for others but TO God only. If you want to pray to Mary, thats your free will, my trust is in Jesus Christ alone and who Jesus told us to pray to. Matthew 6:9-13.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I said now four times we should pray for others but TO God only. If you want to pray to Mary, thats your free will, my trust is in Jesus Christ alone and who Jesus told us to pray to. Matthew 6:9-13.

And I disagree, so, I pray to my brothers and sisters in the faith to pray for me to the Lord our God. But I understand "pray" to mean "ask" and I do not pretend that "pray" is a "special word for exclusive use in regard to asking God". I ask my friends to pray for me and I ask the saint in heaven to pray for me, and I ask, specifically, Blessed Mary, the mother of God, to pray for me to the Lord our God.