Some Basic Islamic Beliefs

[Mephster]

Belvina, without the Holy Spirit, none of this will make sense to Mephster. He does not know what He is missing: a true, intimate relationship with God, whereby he can know and understand all spiritual truths.

Mephster, We do have the words of Christ. The spritual medium used to relay them is the Holy Spirit and the physical medium is the writings of man. This is how personal God is; he deals directly with the very one that needed the message (us). The Holy Spirit will make a believer out of you. You must be willing to be drawn by it; otherwise, it will be impossible to know and understand why we speak and understand a different language than the rest of the world.

Well, then, it seems, based on your post. That it is entirely up to the Holy Spirit. However, you realize, I could still make the valid claim that it was, indeed, the Holy Spirit that led me to Islam.

I don't think you speak any different kind of language. I am well aware of the doctrine of the Paraclete's inspirational powers regarding the works and beliefs of man. Nevertheless, it still stands as quite sensible to say that we have the words of the Gospel writers... we have narratives.

 

[peaceful soul]

Well, then, it seems, based on your post. That it is entirely up to the Holy Spirit. However, you realize, I could still make the valid claim that it was, indeed, the Holy Spirit that led me to Islam.

I don't think you speak any different kind of language. I am well aware of the doctrine of the Paraclete's inspirational powers regarding the works and beliefs of man. Nevertheless, it still stands as quite sensible to say that we have the words of the Gospel writers... we have narratives.

The Holy Spirit will not lead you astray from Jesus. It is the spirit of satan that will lead you from Truth. That is what Islam is. Satan uses God's words and twists them to lead people astray. They think it is OK because it mentions God. Therefore, it must be good.

To me it is obvious, because I have the sprit of Jesus to help me discern Truth from Lies. Didn't you see that when you read C.S. Lewis? The Spirit is a guide for us and a teacher. It will not contradict God's word, whether written or spoken. Islam is void of the Holy Spirit. Islam is about carnality. It speaks of a carnal heaven, man needs to be selfrighteous in his attempt to obtain salvation. Religion is emphasized. Getting people to behave in a certain way has no spiritual value: it only has worldly value. The end does not justify the means. All of these things oppose Jesus' teachings and OTs too.

You say that you know, but do you really know? You, by your own means, can not invoke the Holy Spirit. You have to be drawn to it as part of God's mercy upon you. You can make any claim you want. Your own intellect and wisdom means very little when it comes to a spiritual encounter with God.

 

[peaceful soul]

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[Mephster]

The Holy Spirit will not lead you astray from Jesus. It is the spirit of satan that will lead you from Truth. That is what Islam is. Satan uses God's words and twists them to lead people astray. They think it is OK because it mentions God. Therefore, it must be good.

You say "The Holy Spirit would not lead you astray from Jesus" because if it did, Christianity would be false and your beliefs would be moot. If I don't agree with that starting premiss, though, then none of the rest follows. Do you see what I mean?

Islam is void of the Holy Spirit. Islam is about carnality. It speaks of a carnal heaven, man needs to be selfrighteous in his attempt to obtain salvation. Religion is emphasized. Getting people to behave in a certain way has no spiritual value: it only has worldly value. The end does not justify the means. All of these things oppose Jesus' teachings and OTs too.

Based on what I have studied of Islam (and I can list my researches, but it would be a bit expansive for this post), Islam is not "carnal" or worldly. I do not follow the State Religion of Saudi (Wahhabism), to which you MAY be referring. I realize that as a Christian you are required to say that Islam is evil. You have to say that as a believing Christian. But if you could be removed from the confines of your belief system.... you would be able to admit that Islam does not equal evil.

You say that you know, but do you really know? You, by your own means, can not invoke the Holy Spirit. You have to be drawn to it as part of God's mercy upon you. You can make any claim you want. Your own intellect and wisdom means very little when it comes to a spiritual encounter with God.

I have not "invoked" the Holy Spirit. But I believe truly in God's mercy and I maintain that He would not lead me astray. Nonetheless, it is not for you to say that the holy spirit did not lead me to Islam... no one can speak for the actions of God's Spirit.

 

[Bevlina]

Well, then, it seems, based on your post. That it is entirely up to the Holy Spirit. However, you realize, I could still make the valid claim that it was, indeed, the Holy Spirit that led me to Islam.

I don't think you speak any different kind of language. I am well aware of the doctrine of the Paraclete's inspirational powers regarding the works and beliefs of man. Nevertheless, it still stands as quite sensible to say that we have the words of the Gospel writers... we have narratives.

Oh I don't think the Holy Spirit would lead you to Islam Mephster. You see...He leads us into all truths...and glorifies Jesus.
I have no doubt which spirit led you to islam.
Yes...you may have your narratives....but, while you studied religionaity, you seemed to have lost alot more than the words of Jesus. What about your salvation?

 

[saad]

It's your life Memph. No offence taken. But why don't you have the words of Jesus if you have the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John?

because the words of the one and only Allah (God) are the true words that will lead one to the straight path.

 

[Bevlina]

What about the Words of Jesus who was the Word of God? Look, this could go on forever. The plain fact is, Jesus came. He was the Son of God. "The Word Was Made Flesh And Dwelt Amongst Us" He is the Word of God. He is the Way to God. Only a very few find the right track I'm afraid!

 

[Alessandro]

Meph its not religious experience that its about, and there is a difference between the expereinces one has.

The big difference is this, Christianity and its teachings is the ONLY one that has been validated by the Spirit of God and by an empty grave, no other teaching can/will claim the same, that my friend is the big difference.

God Bless

 

[mo.mentum]

You Christians speak as though God had only blessed you. This is classical Eurocentrism at work. Ever since you got off your boats on First Nation land in America, you've seen yourselves as superior in every way.

When you came out of the dark ages, you thought you did it all by yourself, and relegated all other societies to backwardness. When it was the Chinese and the Arabs that helped Europre out of its ignorance.

I'm not surprised that this is how you regard any other path that God had gave to His creation. You can't go around judging societies and religions by your own standards! Nor denying the possibilities of how God acted. It's not your place to say that everyone else is wrong because you yourselves cannot conceive the Holy Spirit as guiding people of other faiths.

Christ doesn't tell the people not to view him as a prophet. In fact, in many places in the Gospels it is quite clear that he was a prophet. For instance, we read in Luke 24,19: "Jesus of Nazareth ... was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people." And in Mark 6,4: "But Jesus said unto them, 'A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.'"

Jesus taught us that God is one and only one, as you can read in Mark 12:
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that, he asked him, 'Which commandment is the first of all?'
Jesus answered: 'The first is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'" (Mark 12: 28, 29,30).

Muslims accept Jesus but reject anybody who preaches a different message. See the difference between Jesus and Paul:
Paul said: 13: Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree"

And what did Jesus say about the Law? Did he say it was a curse? See Matthew Chapter 5: 17: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19: Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Whom do you believe, Jesus or Paul? This is the difference between us Muslims and Christians. Muslims ACCEPT JESUS, AS HE TRULY WAS. AND Christians EMBRACE SAUL OF TARSUS. You're breaking the First of the TEN Commandments when you accept Jesus as God besides the One and Only God, or part of a Godhead, when God is indivisible, whole, and One!

Christians oppose Muslims because Islam is the only religion that has come after Christ that very clearly and emphatically question some of the basic creeds of "Christianity" as developed by the Church Fathers (ie: not by Christ)

Don't take it personally, but I am of the opinion that present day Christianity was founded by Paul. He taught the easy way to lead a comfortable life by doing whatever sins you wish to do. He himself was a terrible sinner. He said that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, your sins will be forgiven and you will be in Paradise. Since most modern people are materialisitcally oriented, this is a very attractive ideology. I think this is the reason for Paul having so many adherents.

Jesus taught that God is one and only:
Mark 12: 28, 29: And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all? Jesus answered: "The first is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one...."

The basis of Islam is the Oneness of God so much emphasized throughout the Old Testament and even in the Gospels.

Secondly, Jesus taught about himself:
"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24). This is exactly what the Qur'an says: that Jesus was a Messenger to the Children of Israel.

Jesus taught that the way to eternal life is by following the God's commandments, by doing the will of God: This is exactly what Islam teaches. In fact when Jesus said: NOT MY WILL, BUT THY WILL, he was proving himself to be a true Muslim (ie: One who submits to the Will of God)

 

[Alessandro]

There are some misunderstood points you had there, that you perceive in a matter different from what it is.

Jesus is God in Human form. There is only one God and that is the God of the Bible, and the only way to Him is through Jesus.

Mo, I would say to you what I told Meph, if you are confident in your belief about Islam, my recommendation to you would be to involve yourself in it as much as you can, even test it, then maybe you will see. But you must do it for yourself.

God loves all His creation, He longs for us to go back to Him, and He has provided the way to do so, it is a matter of us accepting that way and what He did for us or not.

God Bless

 

[mo.mentum]

There are some misunderstood points you had there, that you perceive in a matter different from what it is.

Jesus is God in Human form. There is only one God and that is the God of the Bible, and the only way to Him is through Jesus.

But why would God need to come as Human form? Why was it not stated in the Old Testament that the awaited Messiah would actually be God Himself? Yes there are verses that link godliness to the messiah, but even Jesus himself told the Apostles "ye are old gods"...for us this is quite understandable, because for Muslims, every human is a microcosm of God with divine spiritual potential..if that potential is realized..any human has the capacity to become holy and pious.

Jesus invited to God, never did he claim Godship for himself. i think.

Mo, I would say to you what I told Meph, if you are confident in your belief about Islam, my recommendation to you would be to involve yourself in it as much as you can, even test it, then maybe you will see. But you must do it for yourself.

Very wise words indeed! And that is exactly what I have done for the past 5 years. I've put my faith under the microscope and dissected. Then i stook a step back and looked at it as a whole. And i found it to answer all questions about the afterlife, the purpose of this life and the purpose of mankind as a whole. So as of 2 years ago, all my doubts have been dissipated.

But i throw the same recommendation to yourself And if we are both convinced of our faiths, it is because God had willed it to be so! There is strength in diversity and understanding...a sanitized monoculture never survives..

God loves all His creation, He longs for us to go back to Him, and He has provided the way to do so, it is a matter of us accepting that way and what He did for us or not. God Bless

Amen! You are very right! See, we realize what God has done for us. He's created everyting we need, and everything we will ever need on this Earth. He's given us the organs and mental capacity needed to perform our tasks and grow. He's given us bounty in the land and the sea beyond our imagination.

Yet you put emphasis on one perceived sacrifice of God's only son. But...if He is God..and He is Eternal..and He is Infinite..is He not also Infinitely rich? Ie: meaning He doesn't need us..nor would He need to sacrifice anything since He could replace it?

After all the Universe was created, and if He was to create another 10 on top of it...this would not decrease what is in my Lord's Hands by an iota. Agreed?

 

[Mephster]

Largely, what I see is a false dichotomy being set up. As if there is a steel cage match between Jesus, with blue trunks in one corner, and Allah, in the other. No Muslim sets us this antagonism, Christians do. Alright, if you want me to use the word 'God' here, I am fine with that. God = referencing 'The Only Divine, Eternal, Infinite, Good, Omnipotent, Supreme Being.' And who would then set up a dichotomy between God vs. Jesus ??? No one, because THAT is nonsensical.

I say I believe in God, yet the Christians say that the god that I believe in is supposedly "not really God." That's really nonsensical. I believe in monotheism. I believe in the one and only God. I believe in the God that Created the Universe and continually thrusts it into being. Is that not the correct God? For, there is only ONE GOD who has done those things.

The Christians say the Holy Spirit would never lead me to Islam. They say this because THEY BELIEVE that the Holy Spirit only leads people to Christianity. But I do not accept that premiss. I believe the Holy Spirit leads people only to God, not away from Him. This sounds like the Gospel passages where they accuse Jesus of being led by Satan or when they question his authority. If I seek goodness and love, peace and truth, God and heaven....how can it be that I am led to evil? Would the Holy Spirit, knowing that I seek that which is holy, lead me to evil? Or, secondly, would some evil spirit lead me to that which is holy? Certainly not on both counts!

Jesus is God in Human form. There is only one God and that is the God of the Bible, and the only way to Him is through Jesus.

The God of the Bible is a HEBREW deity. But the Ancient Hebrews do not have sole ownership over God! That is absurd! That Jesus is God in Human Form is not something that I can give my fiat to. God is not Human.

 

[Alessandro]

"But why would God need to come as Human form? Why was it not stated in the Old Testament that the awaited Messiah would actually be God Himself? Yes there are verses that link godliness to the messiah, but even Jesus himself told the Apostles "ye are old gods"...for us this is quite understandable, because for Muslims, every human is a microcosm of God with divine spiritual potential..if that potential is realized..any human has the capacity to become holy and pious.

Jesus invited to God, never did he claim Godship for himself. i think."


To communicate with His creation God had to take their form, faith is a big part involved here. The awaited Messiah, Jesus, is God, that is where we disagree. The spirituality of one's being is linked to the Holy Spirit if you choose to accept Him.

It was planned by God since the creation for Jesus to come to earth, and make a way for His creation back to Him after the fall of man.



"Very wise words indeed! And that is exactly what I have done for the past 5 years. I've put my faith under the microscope and dissected. Then i stook a step back and looked at it as a whole. And i found it to answer all questions about the afterlife, the purpose of this life and the purpose of mankind as a whole. So as of 2 years ago, all my doubts have been dissipated.

But i throw the same recommendation to yourself And if we are both convinced of our faiths, it is because God had willed it to be so! There is strength in diversity and understanding...a sanitized monoculture never survives.."


Trust me Mo, I have, never before have I exerienced God as such, never before have I had fellowship with God and communication with Him as I do now, it is beyond all.

Mo, I am glad to hear of your commitment to what you follow, it shows good character.



"Yet you put emphasis on one perceived sacrifice of God's only son. But...if He is God..and He is Eternal..and He is Infinite..is He not also Infinitely rich? Ie: meaning He doesn't need us..nor would He need to sacrifice anything since He could replace it?"

He loves us, we are His creation, He wants us back to Him, if only we accept and choose to do so.


God Bless.

 

[Alessandro]

"The God of the Bible is a HEBREW deity. But the Ancient Hebrews do not have sole ownership over God! That is absurd! That Jesus is God in Human Form is not something that I can give my fiat to. God is not Human."

God is not a Hebrew deity, God is a God of all.
That is where we would disagree Meph, Jesus to me is God in Human form, arranged and planned to come long ago before the fall of man, as the saviour. And He will come yet again.

God Bless

 

[mo.mentum]

"The God of the Bible is a HEBREW deity. But the Ancient Hebrews do not have sole ownership over God! That is absurd! That Jesus is God in Human Form is not something that I can give my fiat to. God is not Human."

God is not a Hebrew deity, God is a God of all.
That is where we would disagree Meph, Jesus to me is God in Human form, arranged and planned to come long ago before the fall of man, as the saviour. And He will come yet again.

God Bless

Alessandro..i see

So we have to go with our disagreement further back, to the fall of man. See, if there was no fall..then there would be no need for a saviour.

God tells us in the Qur'an that mankind's purpose has always been to be His representative on Earth. We weren't sent out of Eden as a punishment for disobeying, this is our purpose in this specific life.

The whole thing about Original Sin, which implies the fall of man and hence the need for a saviour, is removed because Adam and Eve asked God to be forgiven their disobediance. And since God is all loving and merciful, He did.

It's interesting to add that in the Qur'anic version of Adam and Eve, it was both that ate from the tree; not Eve who tempted Adam and brought sin upon mankind. Although Satan was the prime cause of this disobediance in both accounts, Biblical and Qur'anic.

Satan is not seen as some Lord of Hell with his own dominion, in constant battle with God. In fact Satan is an avowed ennemy of mankind who will get his punishment on the Day of Judgement just like anyone else. His goal is to get as many of us in Hell with him out of spite...He considered himself to be superior to mankind because he was created out of "fire", and we were created out of "clay".

So when taken as a whole, you understand why there is no need for a saviour. Felicity and good deeds are what we see as the only saviour, in a sense.

 

[Bevlina]

You Christians speak as though God had only blessed you. This is classical Eurocentrism at work. Ever since you got off your boats on First Nation land in America, you've seen yourselves as superior in every way.

When you came out of the dark ages, you thought you did it all by yourself, and relegated all other societies to backwardness. When it was the Chinese and the Arabs that helped Europre out of its ignorance.

I'm not surprised that this is how you regard any other path that God had gave to His creation. You can't go around judging societies and religions by your own standards! Nor denying the possibilities of how God acted. It's not your place to say that everyone else is wrong because you yourselves cannot conceive the Holy Spirit as guiding people of other faiths.

Christ doesn't tell the people not to view him as a prophet. In fact, in many places in the Gospels it is quite clear that he was a prophet. For instance, we read in Luke 24,19: "Jesus of Nazareth ... was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people." And in Mark 6,4: "But Jesus said unto them, 'A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.'"

Jesus taught us that God is one and only one, as you can read in Mark 12:
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that, he asked him, 'Which commandment is the first of all?'
Jesus answered: 'The first is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'" (Mark 12: 28, 29,30).

Muslims accept Jesus but reject anybody who preaches a different message. See the difference between Jesus and Paul:
Paul said: 13: Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree"

And what did Jesus say about the Law? Did he say it was a curse? See Matthew Chapter 5: 17: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19: Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Whom do you believe, Jesus or Paul? This is the difference between us Muslims and Christians. Muslims ACCEPT JESUS, AS HE TRULY WAS. AND Christians EMBRACE SAUL OF TARSUS. You're breaking the First of the TEN Commandments when you accept Jesus as God besides the One and Only God, or part of a Godhead, when God is indivisible, whole, and One!

Christians oppose Muslims because Islam is the only religion that has come after Christ that very clearly and emphatically question some of the basic creeds of "Christianity" as developed by the Church Fathers (ie: not by Christ)

Don't take it personally, but I am of the opinion that present day Christianity was founded by Paul. He taught the easy way to lead a comfortable life by doing whatever sins you wish to do. He himself was a terrible sinner. He said that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, your sins will be forgiven and you will be in Paradise. Since most modern people are materialisitcally oriented, this is a very attractive ideology. I think this is the reason for Paul having so many adherents.

Jesus taught that God is one and only:
Mark 12: 28, 29: And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all? Jesus answered: "The first is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one...."

The basis of Islam is the Oneness of God so much emphasized throughout the Old Testament and even in the Gospels.

Secondly, Jesus taught about himself:
"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24). This is exactly what the Qur'an says: that Jesus was a Messenger to the Children of Israel.

Jesus taught that the way to eternal life is by following the God's commandments, by doing the will of God: This is exactly what Islam teaches. In fact when Jesus said: NOT MY WILL, BUT THY WILL, he was proving himself to be a true Muslim (ie: One who submits to the Will of God)

No Mo...you have misconscrewed a few things there. The Holy Spirit came to Jesus at His Baptism.
You see, you are forgetting that Paul also taught us the ways of carnality as in Galations. The works of the flesh are " adultery, fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkeness, revellings and such like. We are not permitted to do therse things as christians.
Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. And, if you study Paul, he was strictly against those who opposed the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God.
And..you are forgetting the lady who wanted her child healed, and, who was a gentile. She said that even the dogs eat crumbs from their Master's table - and Jesus healed her child. As a gentile, she referred to herself as a dog.
Gentiles were non Jews.
You have said some tough things about America. That is against what Jesus or Paul would have taught us to do, or say.
The fact is, America has been blessed by God enough to become a very superior nation. She has policed the world. And, stopped a world war by extreme measure. Right now, she has ended a tyrannical regime in Iraq and will set a new world of freedom for the people of Iraq. Whether this be right or not, I do not know, but, we do owe alot to America. Many muslims have migrated there. Why?
Paul asked that we do not worship him. He simply set guidelines for the christian life following the death of Jesus, and he preached the Gospel of Jesus the Christ.
Jesus told his apostles "I will not leave you as orphans". And, He called a strict pharisee to become one of his apostles. That one was Saul of Tarsus.
And, it is some of Paul's words many christians are at variance with. "I will not suffer a woman to preach". The submission of women. And, of course the homosexuals want his words about homosexuality taken out of the Bible.
So don't be harsh with America or Paul.
And...I question the Chinese & Arabs helping Europe out of it's ignorance. That isn't true Mo.
The problem here is, you have no understanding of Paul's words. And to understand them, one must be guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mephster]

The Holy Spirit came to Jesus at His Baptism.

If Jesus is God... how does the Holy Spirit "come to Him"? Is it not already with him? or actually Him?

And to understand them, one must be guided by the Holy Spirit.

How does one get "guided by the Holy Spirit"? Is it a matter of predeterminism?

 

[Bevlina]

When Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descended upon Him. The Father, God, spoke from heaven introducing His Son to the Jewish world in stating "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased".
Jesus lived with the Holy Spirit within Him from the time of His Baptism. He never stated "I am God". He stated "I and my Father are one"
He told us only the Father knew the time of the end. Not He.
He told us "Why do you call me good? There is none else good but the Father in Heaven"
He told us that HE was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Jesus never stated any words whatsoever claiming that he was God. He taught us the only way to the Father was THROUGH Him. We pray to God in His Name, because we believe what He said.
The Three work as One. They work in complete agreement. Jesus is the Word of God.
How are we guided by the Holy Spirit? You have read the Bible I take it?

 

[Mephster]

Jesus lived with the Holy Spirit within Him from the time of His Baptism.

If Jesus is one person in the Trinity, he should never have been without the Holy Spirit.

He never stated "I am God". He stated "I and my Father are one"
He told us only the Father knew the time of the end. Not He.
He told us "Why do you call me good? There is none else good but the Father in Heaven"

Then Jesus is not God? Then Islam is not in error on this point.

He told us that HE was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Jesus never stated any words whatsoever claiming that he was God. He taught us the only way to the Father was THROUGH Him. We pray to God in His Name, because we believe what He said.

The Pater Noster (Our Father) does not mention Jesus, yet that was how he taught us to pray. Therefore, it is not necessary to pray "through Jesus' Name."

How are we guided by the Holy Spirit? You have read the Bible I take it?

Of course I have read it. But I do not think the Spirit is fickle, choosing to help only some people, some of the time. I believe that the God guides those who are earnest and honest and obedient to Him.

 

[Bevlina]

Jesus never claimed He was God Almighty....BUT "For unto us a child is born, unto us, a SON IS GIVEN, and the GOVERNMENT shall be upon His Shoulder; and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Councellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." The Apostle Peter prayed Acts4:30 " by stretching forth your Hand to heal and that signs and wonders may be done BY the Name of The Holy Child,......Jesus."
Think what you want, do what you want. You don't WANT to believe. That's you're problem little boy. Studied the Bible have you? You've done well. Even the devils know it...but they tremble.