Some are not going to feel comfortable

[Tamara224]

I found an article along the lines of this thread....

No Apologies: On The Killing of Trayvon Martin And Being "Good" - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob

I get very frustrated thinking on and discussing racism. I want to do something about it....but what? Speak out when I see injustice, sure that's easy. I can speak, but who's listening? Sometimes I feel like no one is.

But it must be getting better, bit by bit, right? I cling to that hope. Growing up I honestly thought racism was a thing of the past. But that's mostly because nearly everyone I knew was white. I thought being "color blind" was the goal and was enough, that I didn't need to acknowledge that racism still existed. I thought it was really their own fault that there are more black people in jail in this country and more white people in power. I thought I wasn't racist for thinking that, too.

But my thinking changed, so I guess I find hope in that. If my eyes can be opened, so can others'. Right?


Avniel, I'm sorry you'll have to teach your son to be wary of cops and judges and authority figures. I'm sorry he'll (most likely) have to work twice as hard and be ten times as careful of his image as my son(s) will be.

I can only promise that I'll do my best to teach my step-son and any of my own children the lessons I've learned about racism and instill in them respect for their fellow human beings.

 

[Avniel]

I found an article along the lines of this thread....

No Apologies: On The Killing of Trayvon Martin And Being[bless and do not curse]"Good" - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob

I get very frustrated thinking on and discussing racism. I want to do something about it....but what? Speak out when I see injustice, sure that's easy. I can speak, but who's listening? Sometimes I feel like no one is.

But it must be getting better, bit by bit, right? I cling to that hope. Growing up I honestly thought racism was a thing of the past. But that's mostly because nearly everyone I knew was white. I thought being "color blind" was the goal and was enough, that I didn't need to acknowledge that racism still existed. I thought it was really their own fault that there are more black people in jail in this country and more white people in power. I thought I wasn't racist for thinking that, too.

But my thinking changed, so I guess I find hope in that. If my eyes can be opened, so can others'. Right?


Avniel, I'm sorry you'll have to teach your son to be wary of cops and judges and authority figures. I'm sorry he'll (most likely) have to work twice as hard and be ten times as careful of his image as my son(s) will be.

I can only promise that I'll do my best to teach my step-son and any of my own children the lessons I've learned about racism and instill in them respect for their fellow human beings.

That is what makes you a great parent and an asset to the growth of our society.


The thing is a lot of the black posters clearly recognize the different treatment blacks get in America, a lot of posters with other racial backgrounds recognize this also.... But the biggest thing is those that are blind to it are the reason why this attitude continues.

 

[WolfGate]

I found an article along the lines of this thread....

No Apologies: On The Killing of Trayvon Martin And Being[bless and do not curse]"Good" - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob

I get very frustrated thinking on and discussing racism. I want to do something about it....but what? Speak out when I see injustice, sure that's easy. I can speak, but who's listening? Sometimes I feel like no one is.

But it must be getting better, bit by bit, right? I cling to that hope. Growing up I honestly thought racism was a thing of the past. But that's mostly because nearly everyone I knew was white. I thought being "color blind" was the goal and was enough, that I didn't need to acknowledge that racism still existed. I thought it was really their own fault that there are more black people in jail in this country and more white people in power. I thought I wasn't racist for thinking that, too.

But my thinking changed, so I guess I find hope in that. If my eyes can be opened, so can others'. Right?


Avniel, I'm sorry you'll have to teach your son to be wary of cops and judges and authority figures. I'm sorry he'll (most likely) have to work twice as hard and be ten times as careful of his image as my son(s) will be.

I can only promise that I'll do my best to teach my step-son and any of my own children the lessons I've learned about racism and instill in them respect for their fellow human beings.

JMHO, but what I think we can all do is to make sure children have positive exposure to people of different races and cultures. While nothing is impossible with God, it is extremely hard to change an adult's biases and prejudices. Since those come from either being taught or from ignorance, the way to change is with those who have not yet learned. True long term change only comes over generations.

The here and now can be more difficult.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

The guy was on foot, was he not - just walking. I think you are wrong, Dsrohe. I think that some people have a perception that a black face under a hood is far more dangerous than a white face under a hood. If that had been a white face, I don't think he would have been shot. I have actually been following along with the story, and the fact that the guy was walking along, talking on the phone to his gf when someone walked up and challenged him, then shot him, speaks of racism very loud and clear and not "an accident".

Avniel, you are right to be concerned. It's a pretty horrible world we are living in when your skin color or your clothing or your car can instantly raise suspicion. It is a fact that the police do racial profiling. I mean, it's a given.

Is it only me that sees what is going on in the world? Like the guys who drove over the African American guy deliberately, after been heard for days before issuing racial epithets and threats. (Oh yeah, and nobody told the cops?) One guy has gotten a life sentence, and there are more people to be tried. What did that guy do wrong? Wear the wrong colored skin?

It's hateful. Disgusting.

gah I'm tired of people misunderstanding me. You are disagreeing with something I never said Jane. I completely acknowledged that the specific story about the 17 year old getting shot was racially motivated. If you aren't going to read what I say and respond to what I actually said then stop responding. It's really quite aggravating and it seems to happen in every thread.

From the 911 recordings the killing does seem somewhat racially motivated. Although maybe it was age discrimination more than racial discrimination. It's a tough situation to discern.

My point above all else is that for everyone, people will judge you based on what you wear. So for the OP, he should let his son know that he is more likely to be profiled if he dresses like a thug, drives a thug car, and drives around in the middle of the night. If he is profiled when doing those things, don't immediately pull the race card because you don't know if it was racial profiling or thug profiling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the story about the murdered 17 year old, it's safe to say it was racially motivated because we have his 911 call recorded and he sounds like he's profiling the young man based on his race.

People of all races are "thug-profiled" and that's just the way our society is.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

right..I even UNDERSTAND the clothes part..seriously if I go outside dressed a certain way ..I can expect SOME might "wonder' if Im a prostitue..even if Im driving in my car with my gradnbaby on my way to the playground..LOL!!..

But I think I would get the BENEFIT of the doubt MORESO because im WHITE that I just dress tacky and "like " a prostitute but Im most likey NOT one....than if I was BLACK...so being black AND dressing in a manner thats "sterotyped" thug..or gangsta..or lady of the night..just seals the deal and turns it into a " that person must be' rather than "wonder if they are fllowed by a "nah"..

Good post Dallas. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I agree that in general, white people get more the benefit of the doubt when they are wearing thug clothes, or prostitute clothes like in your example, or "insert clothes here". Although I bet white people are profiled much more if they are wearing biker gang clothes than black people because biker gangs are predominantly white.

Here's discrimination based on clothes in action and the people being discriminated against are all tattooed, biker looking white men. Check it out: Carlsberg stunts with bikers in cinema - YouTube

 

[Avniel]

gah I'm tired of people misunderstanding me. You are disagreeing with something I never said Jane. I completely acknowledged that the specific story about the 17 year old getting shot was racially motivated. If you aren't going to read what I say and respond to what I actually said then stop responding. It's really quite aggravating and it seems to happen in every thread.

My point above all else is that for everyone, people will judge you based on what you wear. So for the OP, he should let his son know that he is more likely to be profiled if he dresses like a thug, drives a thug car, and drives around in the middle of the night. If he is profiled when doing those things, don't immediately pull the race card because you don't know if it was racial profiling or thug profiling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the story about the murdered 17 year old, it's safe to say it was racially motivated because we have his 911 call recorded and he sounds like he's profiling the young man based on his race.

People of all races are "thug-profiled" and that's just the way our society is.

You are disagreeing with a lot of people. Did you read what Dallas wrote and the experiment done with white and black young adults destroying a car. The fact was the black kids weren't approached and were reported to the police at a higher rate then the white. That is a reality most black posters recognize. The fact is if im driving a nice luxury car I am a target. Black young professional men have to think "if I buy this car I'm a target" not because a Benz or a BMW is a thug car but because at first look all they see is a black man in a car that they shouldn't afford. And it shouldn't be like that. To say that dressing like a thug is the problem is a lie. When young black professionals are being harassed by the police at the same rates as the young black thugs is crazy.

I'm from the Bronx and I live in the Bronx. Sagging pants is out of style, urban wear is out of style, Jordan's are consider everyday walking shoes.

What's in is Gucci, D&g, prada sneakers, tru religion jeans, polo, Ralph Lauren rugby, fitted or tight jeans....that's what professional people of all colors wear, and thugs do to.

If I walk around in polo and rock of republic jeans D&G glasses and prada sneakers I will be harassed by the police not because I look like a thug because the nerdy look is in but because I'm young and black and I look like money

 

[JaneFW]

If I walk around in polo and rock of republic jeans D&G glasses and prada sneakers I will be harassed by the police not because I look like a thug because the nerdy look is in but because I'm young and black and I look like money

And you know where black guys get money from, right?

 

[JaneFW]

gah I'm tired of people misunderstanding me. You are disagreeing with something I never said Jane. I completely acknowledged that the specific story about the 17 year old getting shot was racially motivated. If you aren't going to read what I say and respond to what I actually said then stop responding. It's really quite aggravating and it seems to happen in every thread.

My point above all else is that for everyone, people will judge you based on what you wear. So for the OP, he should let his son know that he is more likely to be profiled if he dresses like a thug, drives a thug car, and drives around in the middle of the night. If he is profiled when doing those things, don't immediately pull the race card because you don't know if it was racial profiling or thug profiling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the story about the murdered 17 year old, it's safe to say it was racially motivated because we have his 911 call recorded and he sounds like he's profiling the young man based on his race.

People of all races are "thug-profiled" and that's just the way our society is.

I think I've addressed you on two threads, so that would not be "every thread".

You said:

Being discriminated against because a person is wearing a hoodie with a big rimmed, tint-windowed car in the middle of the night has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the likelihood that the occupants of said car are up to no good whether they be white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

You said it had nothing to do with race. I hugely disagree. IMO, and IME, it has everything to do with race. Did you see what I quoted from the actual report? The guy was walking along with a bottle of iced tea and some candy. In what way can he be considered to be a "thug"?

 

[Avniel]

And you know where black guys get money from, right?

And that is the exact thought process that is the issue it's not about cars, it's not about clothes it has everything to do with being viewed as a threat.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

I think I've addressed you on two threads, so that would not be "every thread".

You are correct and I apologize for my exaggeration. I was frustrated and exaggerated and for that I apologize.

You said:
You said it had nothing to do with race. I hugely disagree. IMO, and IME, it has everything to do with race. Did you see what I quoted from the actual report? The guy was walking along with a bottle of iced tea and some candy. In what way can he be considered to be a "thug"?

In my example, the windows are tinted. How is a police officer or anyone else supposed to know whether the occupants are black or white when the windows are tinted and the occupants are completely covered up with hoodies? I stand by what I said and profiling a pimped out car with heavily tinted windows and hooded occupants has nothing to do with race.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

You are disagreeing with a lot of people.

Show me exactly where I've disagreed with anyone. I've been misunderstood two to three times already in this thread and have had to correct people who have misunderstood me.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

You are disagreeing with a lot of people. Did you read what Dallas wrote and the experiment done with white and black young adults destroying a car. The fact was the black kids weren't approached and were reported to the police at a higher rate then the white. That is a reality most black posters recognize. The fact is if im driving a nice luxury car I am a target. Black young professional men have to think "if I buy this car I'm a target" not because a Benz or a BMW is a thug car but because at first look all they see is a black man in a car that they shouldn't afford. And it shouldn't be like that. To say that dressing like a thug is the problem is a lie. When young black professionals are being harassed by the police at the same rates as the young black thugs is crazy.

I'm from the Bronx and I live in the Bronx. Sagging pants is out of style, urban wear is out of style, Jordan's are consider everyday walking shoes.

What's in is Gucci, D&g, prada sneakers, tru religion jeans, polo, Ralph Lauren rugby, fitted or tight jeans....that's what professional people of all colors wear, and thugs do to.

If I walk around in polo and rock of republic jeans D&G glasses and prada sneakers I will be harassed by the police not because I look like a thug because the nerdy look is in but because I'm young and black and I look like money

Look, all I'm saying is before you cry the race card, consider other factors because I think you may be surprised that oftentimes, racial prejudice isn't what's going on.

 

[Avniel]

You are correct and I apologize for my exaggeration. I was frustrated and exaggerated and for that I apologize.



In my example, the windows are tinted. How is a police officer or anyone else supposed to know whether the occupants are black or white when the windows are tinted and the occupants are completely covered up with hoodies? I stand by what I said and profiling a pimped out car with heavily tinted windows and hooded occupants has nothing to do with race.

Tints are legal so are hoodies that is a violation of constitutional rights.

What about black men driving luxury cars? What about professor Henry Louis gates? Or the black man shot for reaching for his wallet? What about briana Ojeda the 11 year old girl that died after a police officer cussed her mother out trying to save her daughter and told her the girl was faking?

You are denying so much it saddens me that you don't see reality. You are using dress as a scapegoat and thats not always the truth. I have been stopped both ways and so has my frat brothers who are all professional.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

Carlsberg stunts with bikers in cinema - YouTube

I want to point to this video if I can once again to demonstrate what I am saying.

Consider two scenarios:

In the first scenario (which is what the video shows), a bunch of middle aged, tattooed, biker dressed, white men are in a packed movie theater with only two seats left. An oblivious couple walks in. Many times, the couple high tail it out of the theater because they are intimidated and scared because of all the biker gang looking people. They don't know the biker gang people from Adam yet the immediately judge the crowd based on how they look. No one would watch that video and come to the immediate conclusion that the couples who walked in and hightailed it out are racist against white people. Instead, most people would rightfully assume that the couples hightailed it out because the crowd of people looked like a bunch of rough, dangerous, biker gang types.

My second scenario is similar to the first scenario. Consider the same scenario as above, but instead of rough biker gang looking people, fill it with young black men wearing hoodies, gaudy necklaces, baggy pants, and basically looking like gangster thugs. Walk the same couples in there. I guarantee you some of the couples would do the exact same thing as in the first scenario and hightail it out there. But there is a key difference--many people would call the couples who hightailed it out there racist. Why is it racist when it is young black men involved but it's not racist when it's a bunch of biker gang looking white men?

In my opinion, both situations are much more about clothes and presentation than they are about race.

 

[Avniel]

Look, all I'm saying is before you cry the race card, consider other factors because I think you may be surprised that oftentimes, racial prejudice isn't what's going.

You are denying an entire races experience in America. The fact is through experiments, documented police procedures as well as news reports.

There is no way me walking to the barbershop in a polo, rock of republic jeans prada sneakers, and D&G prescription glasses I should be stopped by the police. Not as hard as I worked to get to the point where I could buy this.

Imagine going to school busting your butt to change where your from to where you visit and when you go back to see old friends and family what you drive gets you pulled over. A black man in new york city driving around Harlem is going to get his car searched because of the plates makes it appear he's buying drugs.

That's racial

To deny that is to deny a people's experience in America.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

Tints are legal so are hoodies that is a violation of constitutional rights.

No it isn't.

The police are not allowed to profile based on things like race, sexual orientation, gender, and age, but "those with tinted windows" and "those wearing hoodies" are not a protected classes. Police are allowed to profile as much as they want on things like heavily tinted windows and hoodie wearing. I did ride-alongs with police on a number of occasions, and we definitely profiled heavily tinted cars, brightly colored sports cars, cars driving around in known drug trafficking areas in the middle of the night, etc.

What about black men driving luxury cars?

Again, I never said that racial profiling doesn't exist. There are racist people in every racial group.

What about professor Henry Louis gates?

Professor Henry Louis Gates, if you read the story, was the one at fault. He freaked out at an officer and immediately pulled the race card when the officer was going about standard protocol in response to a potential burglary in progress. I'm glad you mentioned that story because it is a perfect example of what can happen when people too easily cry "racism", when there is absolutely no racism occurring.

Or the black man shot for reaching for his wallet?

That may definitely be the case of a racially motivated bias which caused the shooting.

What about briana Ojeda the 11 year old girl that died after a police officer cussed her mother out trying to save her daughter and told her the girl was faking?

I read the story and there is nothing in it that in any way implies to me it was racially motivated. You are assuming racial motivation because the victim was black. It's a tragic accident that could have happened to anyone.

You are denying so much it saddens me that you don't see reality.

I do deny situation which were hyped up by the media then discovered to have no racial bias or motivation involved (Henry Louis Gates being one of the largest of those stories).

You are using dress as a scapegoat and thats not always the truth.

I'm glad you said that. You and I agree! I just don't want people to mistake something for racism when there is no racism involved. In fact, I think crying out racism whenever something unfortunate happens to a black person when there is no indication of racism is in of itself racist. That being said, I think Henry Louis Gates cried out racism against the police officer because Henry Louis Gates was being racist towards the police officer. I wonder if his response would have been different if the officer were black?

I have been stopped both ways and so has my frat brothers who are all professional.

I have been stopped too and I'm white. Does that mean the cop is racist against white people? Maybe he is but most of the time I don't think so.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

You are denying an entire races experience in America. The fact is through experiments, documented police procedures as well as news reports.

Show me exactly where I did this again? I have not done anything of the sort.

There is no way me walking to the barbershop in a polo, rock of republic jeans prada sneakers, and D&G prescription glasses I should be stopped by the police. Not as hard as I worked to get to the point where I could buy this.

I agree. You may have been racially profiled.

Imagine going to school busting your butt to change where your from to where you visit and when you go back to see old friends and family what you drive gets you pulled over. A black man in new york city driving around Harlem is going to get his car searched because of the plates makes it appear he's buying drugs.

That's racial

To deny that is to deny a people's experience in America.

In the story you've related it could be racially motivated or it could be not racially motivated. You haven't given me enough to go on to say whether it definitely is racially motivated or not. From my experience riding along with a police officer, you were probably pulled over because you were in a known drug dealing area in an out of town car (which is a red flag and police will profile an out of town plate in a drug selling area in a second). So far, what you are telling me is that you were profiled because of your out of town plate, not because of your race.

Racism can and does hold many people back. I think wallowing in self-pity holds more people back than racism, however, and self-pity is something that isn't addressed nearly as often as racism as something which holds people back.

 

[dallasapple]

[ Black young professional men have to think "if I buy this car I'm a target" not because a Benz or a BMW is a thug car but because at first look all they see is a black man in a car that they shouldn't afford. /QUOTE]

Maybe it doesnt make a WHOLE lot of differnce but I will say it can depend on whre you live..Here in Dallas(my burb)..a black man dressed in high class clothes driving an expensive car is assumed to be a professional..at least by anyone I know..because there are SOOO many affluent areas of Dallas and black people are a decent percentage of our community(overall)..its "assumed' they are highly educated honest succesful men..because where I live..its affluent..anyone here black or white..or asian or Middle Eastern ..can very likley be wealthy..What draws your attention is a 'run down car" and if there isnt a teeanager in it(thats acceptabel becaseu teenagers get hand me down cars somtimes even thogh MOST of those even get shny brand new things to drive)..if there is an adutl in it..(black or white) thats when they might get picked on ..IOW HERE you will be "profiled" if you arent at least middle class..

If I see a black man in my town?Thats driving a $60,000 car dressed sharp..I "assume' hes a professional in one of the many prfessional occupations to be had around here including business owners..My city pretty much runs off anyone NOT here to make an honest wage and a lot of it....white or black...we dont have "homeless" people..

Having said that in MY particular suberb of Dallas we dont have a high % of black people..but the ones here?Just like the majority are educated with money..

And this is sad..but its the Mexicans that get no respect around my parts..They are disproportionately poor even in the affluent areas..they are the "workers"..even mostly live on a different side of town..the old run down part and there is a ..and I'm not kidding you ..its litterally "over the tracks"..(train tracks) on the other side..


Hope this made sense..and dont know if it even matters...but black people HERE are EXPECTED to have bling!

Dallas

 

[Romanseight2005]

This is a blind post. I do know that racism is sadly alive and well. It totally stinks. As long as people care more about the appearances of anyone, and judge them accordingly, we will have racism.

 

[Romanseight2005]

One of my favorite quotes by Martin Luther King Junior

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."