Solution to the creation/evolution debate...?

[Neogaia777]

I was offering you the chance to explain it right.

And what is it you want to explain beyond what I have already said or stated, etc...?

Responsibility for what?

Until you are ready to handle the position responsibly, etc...

And/or rightly or truly justly, etc...

It's not about you:

"Those who do get to be in the higher places will not see it that way, and neither will the ones in the lower places either once they are made to fully realize why they are there, or what put them there, etc..."

Remember?

Yeah, I remember and agree...

So what is your point, etc...?

Sorry you described it that way.

Perhaps you could remake it in your own image then...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What if I'm not where I belong? What if I'm not where I should be?

Your probably not in this world...

What if I choose to disagree with the ones who tell me it is where I belong?

If you repeatedly choose to deny what you have absolutely come to know for sure and for absolute certainty in your own heart, then you might not make it in at all, etc....

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Ok, you guys want something that will really help you and get you a lot closer to knowing God, right...?

Well, this is probably one of the most major keys I found that got me a lot closer to knowing Him, or perhaps more appropriately "Them", etc, since God is a Trinity, etc, ok...

Jesus had a revelation that there was a higher God than God in and of the OT, and by getting to know Him or that One, or by spending a lot of time pondering Him or that One, was able to show Him or that One to us in Himself, etc, and God in and of the OT He knew as God the Spirit or the Holy Spirit, etc, and together They are, or did form, and/or did make up, the Trinity, etc...

Or at least Jesus reasoned this or reasoned so in His mind, etc...

And by this, and by Him knowing about Him being spoken of as having a prophecy over Him and His life already as being the spoken of and promised Messiah in His life, had a revelation about Himself also, as being there in the beginning, and being a part of that Trinity as God the Son, or the God-Man in being the promised Messiah or God the Son, etc, and He set out to be it and/or fulfill it, etc...

Ask me more about this if you wish...

God Bless!

They differed in levels of knowledge also, something else Jesus also discovered also, etc...

And only God the Father was only always "all-knowing", or absolutely always knew all from the very beginning always, etc...

And Jesus had a lot of revelations because of this and all of this, etc, "a lot or revelations because of this", etc, for He came to know "Them" because of this, etc, including how They were the same, and also how They were different, and also His own place in those things and/or that arrangement, and how He was there in the beginning in that arrangement, etc...

Ask me more about this if you wish...

Oh, and from the Father's perspective, there is technically no such thing as choice either, something else He (Jesus) also discovered and/or had a revelation about also, etc...

Ask me more if you wish...

God Bless!

Jesus had two Fathers also, something He also knew about or had a revelation of, etc, God the Spirit was His Father, for He was physically born of that One, but so was the Heavenly Father also, who is the true Father of us all, and Jesus knew this, or came to know this, etc...

Ask me more about this if you wish...

God Bless!

I'll also add this to these three posts (above):

"Determinism", or "causality", is the law and/or rule from the very beginning of the universe, only really ever only one way things can go, etc, technically no such things as choice, etc, and God the Father is the only One who knew it all, or always had full and complete knowledge of it all, from the very beginning of all, etc...

And God the Son (Jesus) and God in and of the OT (God the Spirit, or Holy Spirit) did not always have this kind of full knowledge of it always, etc...

God the Father could or cannot show Himself to us without the other Two, etc, and is why They are here as our God, etc...

God the Spirit shows us the beginning of God the Father, if He were to have a beginning, and/or be "in time" with us, etc, and Jesus shows us more, maybe perhaps the middle or end, but both shows us the Father, etc, for it is the one and only thing that One cannot do without Them, because knowing all always comes with that or those kinds of limitations, etc, limitations in being able to show us how He thinks and/or grew and/or changed or evolved and/or "feels", etc, and that is why He has the other Two, etc, who cannot have the kind of full knowledge He has and has always had in and from the beginning, in order to do this, etc...

Ask me more about this if you wish, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I'll also add this to these three posts (above):

"Determinism" is the law and/or rule from the very beginning of the universe, only really ever only one way things can go, etc, technically no such things as choice, etc, and God the Father is the only One who knew it all, or always had full and complete knowledge of it all, from the beginning of all, etc...

And God the Son (Jesus) and God in and of the OT (God the Spirit, or Holy Spirit) did not always have this kind of full knowledge of it always, etc...

God the Father could or cannot show Himself to us without the other Two, etc, and is why They are here as our God, etc...

God the Spirit shows us the beginning of God the Father, if He were to have a beginning, and/or be "in time" with us, etc, and Jesus shows us more, maybe perhaps the middle or end, but both shows us the Father, etc, for it is the one and only thing that One cannot do without Them, because knowing all always comes with that or those kinds of limitations, etc, limitations in being able to show us how He thinks and/or grew and/or changed or evolved and/or "feels", etc, and that is why He has the other Two, etc, who cannot have the kind of full knowledge He has and has always had in and from the beginning, in order to do this, etc...

Ask me more about this if you wish, etc...

God Bless!

This too or also, as to the kind of questions that might come up, etc...


God does not change, etc...

God does not change nor ever had to change at all ever in the way that a man does, etc, God has never had to ever relent or repent or be born again, or 100% and completely change who He is or was at His core the way a man has to and/or does, etc, and in that way He does not change, etc, but this does not mean that God the Spirit never had to learn or evolve or gain more knowledge and/or grow, etc, because that is not what it means when it says God does not change, etc, but it only means that He never had to/has to ever, change in the way a man does, and "must", etc...

God the Spirit has never had to change that way, and does not change that way, etc...

But He did have to "grow", etc...

And He also did not change in the way that all the "false gods" did and/or needed to either that I'm going to mention or discuss here in a minute and/or down below, etc...


Only True God, the One God, etc...

This was to separate and distinguish Himself from all the other "gods" or fallen angels/false gods posing as "gods", with a "little g", etc...

But does not mean He was always equal to the Father always or always knew all always, etc...

Because if this were the case, then He could never ever fail or ever experience any kind of failure with anything at all ever, etc, which He clearly did at times or sometimes, etc...

And then also again also, also would not be able to go through all the more kind of "human-like emotions" that He was experiencing and/or was going through or had to go through either or also, but that was necessary to show us the Father also, etc...

Ask me more about these if you wish...

God Bless!

 

[TLK Valentine]

And what is it you want to explain beyond what I have already said or stated, etc...?

Until you are ready to handle the position responsibly, etc...

And/or rightly or truly justly, etc...

Well, for starters -- what position?

Yeah, I remember and agree...

So what is your point, etc...?

My point is that I'm still expecting a straight answer from you: you said that the people in heaven wouldn't be "forced" to accept their lower stations -- I'd like to know how to convince the ones who simply won't accept them.

Because as I said -- eternity is a long time to live with inequality -- Lucifer rebelled over a lot less.

Perhaps you could remake it in your own image then...?

God Bless!

Perhaps I could chuck the whole thing and believe in something more sensible.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Your probably not in this world...



If you repeatedly choose to deny what you have absolutely come to know for sure and for absolute certainty in your own heart, then you might not make it in at all, etc....

God Bless!

That's the point -- I haven't, because the one who was supposed to put it there wasn't convincing.

You talk a good spiel about "responsibility"; where is it now?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I explained exactly how you can, and no one has found any holes in the theory thus far or yet, etc...

You may think you did, but you didn't. Including evolution in a magical story (it's not a scientific theory) doesn't do it. A literal reading of Genesis is irreconcilable with science, period.

 

[enoob57]

Maybe you'd be better off in a " preach to
the choir" forum, instead of one where people
like to think and discuss.

I like to think an discuss ... where would you like to begin?

Out of context pronouncements of "superior
wisdom" dont really fit in. You know?

Well if you rule out God then you only have left something came from nothing... is that your belief?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... if you rule out God then you only have left something came from nothing... is that your belief?

This has been covered many times previously. It's a false dichotomy - the universe may have always been around; in that case, a creator is redundant.

 

[Astrid]

I like to think an discuss ... where would you like to begin?
Well if you rule out God then you only have left something came from nothing... is that your belief?

A start is in not pronouncing facts not in evidence as
immortal Truth.

Who is talking about "ruling out" god(s)?



"Only have left" is not merely a false dichotomy,
the "...from nothing" is a facile misrepresentation
of physics, and is in no way the thinking of an educated
person.

Also your question is irrelevant to what I said.

 

[enoob57]

A start is in not pronouncing facts not in evidence as
immortal Truth.

Pinpointedly I asked where you would like to start!

"Only have left" is not merely a false dichotomy,
the "...from nothing" is a facile misrepresentation
of physics, and is in no way the thinking of an educated
person.

I'm not going to keep guessing... If Genesis is error where did all this come from?

 

[enoob57]

This has been covered many times previously. It's a false dichotomy - the universe may have always been around; in that case, a creator is redundant.

what evidence can you put forth of an eternal existence of this universe?

 

[ottawak]

what evidence can you put forth of an eternal existence of this universe?

None. Right now it's an open question, but it remains a possibility. Theologically, de novo creation is generally accepted, but creation ex materia was once believed by many, and I can't think of any fundamental Christian doctrine which depends on the distinction.

 

[Tinker Grey]

If the universe is 'evidence' for a god, then it is evidence for an eternal universe.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the universe is 'evidence' for a god, then it is evidence for an eternal universe.

Why?

 

[ottawak]

Why?

Because God is eternal, and if material reality is sustained by divine providence, as we believe, then it could be as old as He is--the so-called "big bang" merely being a change in its form.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because God is eternal, and if material reality is sustained by divine providence, as we believe, then it could be as old as He is--the so-called "big bang" merely being a change in its form.

This doesn't even make sense.

Creatio ex nihilo is the creation of "material reality" out of nothing.

Sustaining it afterwards is just that: sustaining it afterwards.

It is not eternal, it had a beginning.

 

[ottawak]

This doesn't even make sense.

Creatio ex nihilo is the creation of "material reality" out of nothing.

Sustaining it afterwards is just that: sustaining it afterwards.

It is not eternal, it had a beginning.

But the doctrine of creation ex nihilo is really nothing but an assumption. And see, for example, Hebrews 11:3

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Which can be read as implying creation ex materia. Historically, creadion ex nihilo was adopted by the church because it was thought that creation ex materia represented a slippery slope leading to gnostic dualism, which was considered a threat to Christianity at the time.

 

[Astrid]

Pinpointedly I asked where you would like to start!

I'm not going to keep guessing... If Genesis is error where did all this come from?

Learning some physics beats
guessing. Same with how atheists think.
Part of it is the humble acceptance of mysteries
that may never be solved.

Your question also applies to any "god".
Where did it come from, how did it get so smart.

Genesis describes how earth was formed, in
poetic language.
There's nothing in the account that matches
or is not directly contradicted any actual data.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which can be read as implying creation ex materia.

Well I certainly don't take it that way.