Sola Scriptura

[LOCO]

After weeks of this topic I am still no closer to a reason for why people follow sola scriptura the best argument is that it simply is a process because it is, and that this is based on selected quotes from either scripture or ECFs that ignores any evidence that praises tradition.

Not to mention the fact that Protestant views on SS are so varied they cannot agree on what it means or where it started. One says 'this is the view of SS' and another says 'No this is it' yet all will say SS is the only valid platform.

The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of confusion.

 

[steve_bakr]

Same could be said that after weeks of this topic no one presented clear evidence on why Holy Traditions and the Catechism is needed to fill the holes that some believe the Scripture has.

It is not a matter of filling holes but simply a recognition of the living Tradition and Church teaching authority in the light of which Scripture was produced. So, doesn't it make sense to interpret Scripture in the same light?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Not to mention the fact that Protestant views on SS are so varied they cannot agree on what it means or where it started. One says 'this is the view of SS' and another says 'No this is it' yet all will say SS is the only valid platform.

The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of confusion.

NO but apparently the Holy Spirit can be the authority of contradiction, especially if you go by some of the "Holy Traditions" as some want to claim.

Like, Scripture well tell you that there are certain qualifications for a Bishop, but we can put man in the Bishop position even if they don't meet that qualification and call it "tradition".

 

[daydreamergurl15]

It is not a matter of filling holes but simply a recognition of the living Tradition and Church teaching authority in the light of which Scripture was produced. So, doesn't it make sense to interpret Scripture in the same light?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that the Scripture is God breathed and it's here so that the man of God "may be complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work". IF Scripture can make us complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work, then what more is needed to fulfill it?

 

[Montalban]

Same could be said that after weeks of this topic no one presented clear evidence on why Holy Traditions and the Catechism is needed to fill the holes that some believe the Scripture has.--And someone is going to argue that "that wasn't the topic" but if you didn't read all the posts, then you won't know why I said what I said. A lot of things were presented but like everything else, we pick and chose and justify what we want to.

I've already noted I don't follow the Catholic Catechism

As to traditions, it’s the basis for how they put the bible together.

 

[Montalban]

NO but apparently the Holy Spirit can be the authority of contradiction, especially if you go by some of the "Holy Traditions" as some want to claim.

Who has claimed this?

Like, Scripture well tell you that there are certain qualifications for a Bishop, but we can put man in the Bishop position even if they don't meet that qualification and call it "tradition".

Give me some examples

 

[Montalban]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that the Scripture is God breathed and it's here so that the man of God "may be complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work". IF Scripture can make us complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work, then what more is needed to fulfill it?

No one denies that scripture is the word of God.

What you've not shown is that it is the only word of God (and given that Jesus is the Word of God you will be hard pressed to do so)

You also need to show how the OT was complete for Timothy's salvation and why we should follow only the OT. Timothy was directed by Paul.

Was the words Paul gave to Timothy also part of the 'complete' collection then, or only later?

 

[LOCO]

NO but apparently the Holy Spirit can be the authority of contradiction, especially if you go by some of the "Holy Traditions" as some want to claim.

Like, Scripture well tell you that there are certain qualifications for a Bishop, but we can put man in the Bishop position even if they don't meet that qualification and call it "tradition".

What Holy Traditions are you speaking of? Traditions in the Catholic position relates wholly to the Sacraments which are of Divine Tradition not manmade.

Some of the Sacraments:

The Eucharist (bread and wine) is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.
Confession is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.
Marriage is Christ speaking on vows. Divine Tradition.
Baptism is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.

Which Bishop in your opinion is in a position they are not qualified for?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Who has claimed this?

Give me some examples

I just gave you an example...Bishop..

Look at 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and tell me that all of the "Bishops" in the Catholic Church meet those qualification.

 

[steve_bakr]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that the Scripture is God breathed and it's here so that the man of God "may be complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work". IF Scripture can make us complete, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work, then what more is needed to fulfill it?

Once again, since the NT is the result of a living Tradition, we Catholics believe in interpreting that Scripture in the light of the Tradition which produced it and.under the authority of the Apostolic Church.

 

[Montalban]

I just gave you an example...Bishop..

Look at 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and tell me that all of the "Bishops" in the Catholic Church meet those qualification.

I'm not Catholic. I don't see the need to defend what they believe.

If you have anything specific to relate about my church, let me know.

 

[Montalban]

Paul tells Timothy that scripture is all one needs. But Timothy has only the OT and it's not the same one that Protestants have.

How do Protestants say that their bible is 'complete' when they don't have the same OT books?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

What Holy Traditions are you speaking of? Traditions in the Catholic position relates wholly to the Sacraments which are of Divine Tradition not manmade.

Some of the Sacraments:

The Eucharist (bread and wine) is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.
Confession is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.
Marriage is Christ speaking on vows. Divine Tradition.
Baptism is Christ speaking. Divine Tradition.

Which Bishop in your opinion is in a position they are not qualified for?

1 Timothy 3:1-7
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.​

Do your Bishops meet ALL of these qualifications?

 

[Montalban]

1 Timothy 3:1-7
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.​

Do your Bishops meet ALL of these qualifications?

Ours are.

Do you interpret 'husband of one wife' as actually having to be married, or not married to more than one woman?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Paul tells Timothy that scripture is all one needs. But Timothy has only the OT and it's not the same one that Protestants have.

How do Protestants say that their bible is 'complete' when they don't have the same OT books?

This is what Paul tells Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:1 -4:5
10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


4:1-5
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
​

Where in the Old Testament does it tell them to go out and "Preach the word"?

As for the tidbit about the OT, we have the same OT that the Jews had--look at their Tanakh. It makes perfect sense since the Jews were the one that had the oracles of God per Romans 3:2.

 

[LOCO]

I just gave you an example...Bishop..

Look at 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and tell me that all of the "Bishops" in the Catholic Church meet those qualification.

Paul did explicitly state he is celibate. Most Protestant scholars don't think he ever married. The clue here is verse 7--he wished everyone to be as he is, meaning, celibate. He extolled celibacy greatly here, in fact. No one can gain the notion there that he says a bishop must be married, unless the one reading it has anti-Catholic biases.

Matthew 19:12 says "Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it." A priest in the Latin Rite is someone who has chosen to refrain from marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

Marriage is not a requirement for being a Bishop, never has never will be. If that were the case every bishop would have to marry whether he was inclined to marry or not or could even find a good woman to marry.

A man is not 'forbidden to marry' should he have the calling to be a priest.

He 'chooses' not to marry in order to accept the Spirit given discipline of the Church.

So if you're thinking the Church is guilty of some mass 'forbiddings' of marriage. . .you're in error.

We do have Priests who are married, to ONE woman, however they were married prior to becoming Catholic Priests, e.g. Anglican priests who have come home.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I'm not Catholic. I don't see the need to defend what they believe.

If you have anything specific to relate about my church, let me know.

First Montalban, that post was not towards you.
Secondly, you replied to my post.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

No one denies that scripture is the word of God.

What you've not shown is that it is the only word of God (and given that Jesus is the Word of God you will be hard pressed to do so)

You also need to show how the OT was complete for Timothy's salvation and why we should follow only the OT. Timothy was directed by Paul.

Was the words Paul gave to Timothy also part of the 'complete' collection then, or only later?

You've never shown that there was another need for "another word of God". And we've been through "word of God" post over and over so you can dig one up and read those if you like. As for the question of Timothy....you're the one thinking that it spoke of the OT only, but read 2 Timothy 3:1-4:5, you'll see, because Paul mentions Jesus Christ, it had to do with what was being preached to Timothy as well.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Once again, since the NT is the result of a living Tradition, we Catholics believe in interpreting that Scripture in the light of the Tradition which produced it and.under the authority of the Apostolic Church.

"Interpreting the Scripture "in the light of the tradition which produced it".
I'm confused, are you saying that tradition is what produced Scripture?

If so, are you serious?

 

[Montalban]

First Montalban, that post was not towards you.
Secondly, you replied to my post.

Well you asked specifically about the Catholic bihsops. I replied as far as I know of my church.