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Sola Scriptura

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SolomonVII

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A chicken and the egg scenario? I think there is an escape from the closed circle with the appearance of the Holy Spirit . He guided His people and quickened their judgment. Over the centuries the question became settled and closed. We living thousands of years later have been handed the Book on a silver platter. Why reopen a debate regarding what books make up the Bible now? I don't believe in Sola Scripture myself, nor do I believe the Bible teaches it, but this seems like a possibly harmful avenue of critique.
I see much wisdom in understanding that this was a decision made in concert with the Holy Spirit, and just leaving it at that.:thumbsup:
 
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Albion

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My question therefore was a valid one in who this 'we' is which must mean only the protestants who agree with your conclusion.

If you're insisting that it's only Protestants who believe the Bible, I won'r press the point any further.

I'm talking about valid historians out there who are not Christians yet who have the same information available to you.

Of course. I was referring to just such historians.
 
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SolomonVII

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So are you saying the Koran is legit?

Well, as you are well aware, I cannot speak for EO, which shares from some of the same apocryphal and legendary source material ideas as does the Koran, but according to Sola Scripture, the Koran is not legit, no.

Scripture is legit.:thumbsup:
 
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Montalban

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Well, as you are well aware, I cannot speak for EO, which shares from some of the same apocryphal and legendary source material ideas as does the Koran, but according to Sola Scripture, the Koran is not legit, no.
You should start a thread on this. I'd be interested to see what on earth you mean by this

However, why no to the Koran?
Scripture is legit.

Just this?
 
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Standing Up

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When people say " the Bible says the Bible is true" it's really begging the question of how they know the books they are reading are actually the books that should be held to as Scripture in the first place. Is any book that claims authority automatically scripture? No one would say that yet they act as if this is the case by using exactly this circular logic to justify their selection of texts. They are also assuming that a statement found in one of the books about the general validity of "Scripture" also applies to all the other texts they happen to have bound in a book with the title "Bible". It may or may not. There has to be something prior to "sola scriptura". An inner certainty that allowed people to recognize texts worth accepting and those worth rejecting. This certainty itself can't be based on Scripture because what constitutes Scripture is exactly the question under consideration. You can't logically say "I read the Scripture and it helped me to decide what was scripture". Why? Because you are assuming knowledge that can only logically come after the decision has been made as to what constitutes Scripture.

Christ taught the apostles who taught believers. The apostles then wrote it down (God-breathed). They asked believers to pass it around. It was handed down as divine.

That's the "somthing prior". Christ to apostles to written word.

Do you think when Christ ascended and sent the Spirit, He would leave us orphans?
 
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SolomonVII

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Christ taught the apostles who taught believers. The apostles then wrote it down (God-breathed). They asked believers to pass it around. It was handed down as divine.

That's the "somthing prior". Christ to apostles to written word.

Do you think when Christ ascended and sent the Spirit, He would leave us orphans?

Isaiah 30:20
19Yes, people of Zion, dwelling in Jerusalem,

you shall no longer weep;

He will be most gracious to you when you cry out;

as soon as he hears he will answer you.q

20The Lord will give you bread in adversity

and water in affliction.


No longer will your Teacher* hide himself,

but with your own eyes you shall see your Teacher,r

.
1Thes 1:6
For our gospel did not come to you in word alone, but also in power and in the holy Spirit and (with) much conviction. You know what sort of people we were (among) you for your sake.
6
And you became imitators 3 of us and of the Lord, receiving the word in great affliction, with joy from the holy Spirit,


15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
 
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Montalban

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I accept that people just believe scripture because it is, because it is.

Any 'test' that they give it or any book is still circular because it's tested against the idea that they already know scripture to be true, because they do.

All they're doing is expanding the circle of the circular logic.

It goes like this:

I believe scripture because it's scripture. (circular)

Let me test the Koran. Does it say the same as what scripture says? No. It's false, because I've tested it against scripture which I believe because it's scripture (circular)

Nothing has changed from the same circular argument.
 
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Standing Up

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Isaiah 30:20


.
1Thes 1:6


Yep.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jn. 6:6 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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It says so, so it must be true?
What? So it must be false?
Or is it true because the "right people" said it is?
Is the Holy Spirit not the right person to claim the authenticity of the books He wrote through inspired men?

All the other books that claims inspiration, take a look at them because most of them you can find contradictions from books in the bible. Most of them aren't as alive, doesn't cut as deep, doesn't ring as true as Scripture itself.

There is something about Scripture that I didn't realize until I read the Qu'ran. The wholeness of it, the love of it, the accuracy of it, the history of it, the prophecies of it. No other God have made as many prophecies and fulfilled them as God of the bible and in fact, no other gods have made them because He is only one. He can be as specific as He wants because it always comes true. No other god have sent a son, a breathing male, to live on this earth--and to die for our sins and redeem us back to God, all the false gods ask you to "love me because you're meer mortals", our God says "Love me because I first loved you" and that message is threaded throughout all the books of the Holy Scripture. Not because man bound those Scriptures, but because they were first inspired by the very breathe of God so that they too speak as the Holy Spirit gives witness through the men who wrote it.

How that works, I don't know but history attest to it, eyewitnesses attest to it and for it to be as truthful as it is about the physical, I'm going to trust it with the spiritual. The children of Israel had the special blessings of being visited by Angels to recognize the truth of God, and the children who were in Egypt had the special blessings of being led by Moses who saw the face of God and was given God's status and commandments by God Himself. They had a leader in Joshua who gave them courage to continue fighting and trusting in God's promises, and history books after history books from Judges to Ester, the prophecies that rang true, and the wisdom that is found in the entire books. Then we come to the New Testament that records our Saviors life, true, we only get glimpses but we also get His words and yet we don't hear the crying of people in those times telling us that those books are false.

Now, you might be thinking well of course it's true, it was placed together by the council, but no, that's not what I mean. Those men who bound the Scriptures might have had the Holy Spirit guiding them and had criteria for which was considered inspired but those men had criteria but they couldn't make the books inspired or authentic. They had to choose which books were inspired, those books didn't become inspired because those men chose them. The books in the Old and New Testament are just as inspired before the criteria was set by these men because it was God who authenticated them, how He does it, no idea, but they ring true.
 
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