Sola Scriptura, the Pail of Orthodoxy and the living God

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I can't message you and I wanted to ask you a question but it isn't for the rest of the members. If you can send me a message... or look me up on Facebook or my email is my name at gmail. Thanks.

I had my messaging preferences turned off for some reason. On now

 

[Athanasius377]

You are certainly not allowing Cyril to speak for himself. You are quote mining trying to find something among the Church fathers to support your own opinion and simply ignoring anything and everything to the contrary.

When the man says we ask the Holy Spirit to change the bread into the body of Christ and that change happens please don't claim we don't know what change he's talking about.

Actually I have given entire sections where the subject matter is relevant to prove the point. I let Cyril define what he means since it comes from the very previous chapter of the same work so either Cyril can think and write in logical and lucid consistency or he writes like he’s schizophrenic saying whatever. You are seeing key words and assume he means what you mean when based on his writings he means something else. It is possible he changed his mind but suggesting it happened in the very next chapter? You could even say he’s isn’t fully developed in his doctrine to which I would agree but to say he believes exactly like an Orthodox believer some 1600 years later simply isn’t true. He also doesn’t sound like a modern Lutheran either but I’m also not trying to put sacramental union in his mouth.

 

[Not David]

Actually I have given entire sections where the subject matter is relevant to prove the point. I let Cyril define what he means since it comes from the very previous chapter of the same work so either Cyril can think and write in logical and lucid consistency or he writes like he’s schizophrenic saying whatever. You are seeing key words and assume he means what you mean when based on his writings he means something else. It is possible he changed his mind but suggesting it happened in the very next chapter? You could even say he’s isn’t fully developed in his doctrine to which I would agree but to say he believes exactly like an Orthodox believer some 1600 years later simply isn’t true. He also doesn’t sound like a modern Lutheran either but I’m also not trying to put sacramental union in his mouth.

I already showed you parts that talk about the material "body and bread" and "flesh and blood", that he mentioned spiritual parts does not mean anything since the Eucharist can also be spiritual. Also, why do you even try to come with a Reformed view? Are you debunking your own Lutheranism?

 

[Athanasius377]

I already showed you parts that talk about the material "body and bread" and "flesh and blood", that he mentioned spiritual parts does not mean anything since the Eucharist can also be spiritual. Also, why do you even try to come with a Reformed view? Are you debunking your own Lutheranism?

Well it certainly meant something to Cyril since he gave an entire lecture on the subject. What you are saying is normative in his writings are merely a component of a larger teaching described in the previous chapter. We can’t read his mind so we are left with only what he wrote. He sounds close to a doctrine we both believe but he’s not quite there. And no, I am not trying to debunk the Lutheran understanding but I’m not trying to make Cyril say something that a modern Lutheran would say. What I am objecting to is the idea that the ECF are unanimous on the subject. Be fair to the guy, he comes from a time where persecution was recent and severe that a lot of these finer points were not worked out yet. So I also don’t think he would sound like a fully formed Reformed thinker either. Or a modern EO believer for that matter though the explanation of the liturgy is remarkable to the Divine Liturgy I have attended(for about a year).