Sola Scriptura is overrated, the first christians didn't need it so neither do we.

[ToBeLoved]

Every version has its limitations. Errors are being pointed out in all cases.

You can get a Hebrew Interlinear Bible and a Greek one also. A Concordance, Dictionary ect. There are tools out there and many of them with the internet. We have more resources and know-how than we have ever had in the past. So there is really no excuse, IMHO. Not that I am saying that specifically to you, but to Christians in general who complain about versions.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would also like to add that in the early church, most Hebrews/Israelite's were poor. Many did not know how to read and memorized scripture and handed it down orally.

Also, books were not printed on a printing press. They were hand copies done by scribes. Expensive to make so there were not a lot of copies floating around for the poorer classes, which is one of the reason the Pharisee's were able to maintain such control, many times politically through spirituality. Pharisee's were the rich ones and they were educated. They lived a good lifestyle. That is why Paul, formerly the Pharisee Saul, gave up a lot of status and wealth to follow Christ and speak out against his former buddies.

People criticize Paul a lot, but don't realize his full sacrifice. Paul gave all.

 

[Albion]

Every version has its limitations. Errors are being pointed out in all cases.

I don't really get the point you are trying to make.

Is it "There's no way to know God's truth?" If the Scriptures that just about every last Christian denomination considers authoritative and has done so for countless centuries aren't considered reliable, then what is...if anything?

By the way, there are "errors" in various translations, but that doesn't mean that the essential message is lost. Many of these "errors" have almost no impact upon the message.

 

[SolomonVII]

Perhaps the critics would like to point out an textual variation or two that they personally find troublesome for their own faith journey?

 

[Albion]

Seems like a good way to proceed.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I like it too. I think that is a splendid idea. They can even choose the hardest verses.

 

[Righttruth]

That's irrelevant to the principle of Sola Scriptura. Of course we have to deal with real Scripture, with the Bible itself--just as the advocates of "Tradition" would say that, in order to be properly guided by that method, you have to follow actual Christian traditions and not some secular folklore. But which language and which translation in particular is not part of Sola Scriptura.

Why is that the version in the language that Jesus spoke is not part of the Bible? How much of the traditions are reliable?

 

[Righttruth]

You can get a Hebrew Interlinear Bible and a Greek one also. A Concordance, Dictionary ect. There are tools out there and many of them with the internet. We have more resources and know-how than we have ever had in the past. So there is really no excuse, IMHO. Not that I am saying that specifically to you, but to Christians in general who complain about versions.

Why is that the role of the Holy Spirit is being ignored here?

 

[Righttruth]

I would also like to add that in the early church, most Hebrews/Israelite's were poor. Many did not know how to read and memorized scripture and handed it down orally.

Also, books were not printed on a printing press. They were hand copies done by scribes. Expensive to make so there were not a lot of copies floating around for the poorer classes, which is one of the reason the Pharisee's were able to maintain such control, many times politically through spirituality. Pharisee's were the rich ones and they were educated. They lived a good lifestyle. That is why Paul, formerly the Pharisee Saul, gave up a lot of status and wealth to follow Christ and speak out against his former buddies.

People criticize Paul a lot, but don't realize his full sacrifice. Paul gave all.

I don't think Paul was that rich compared to rich young ruler who went away sadly instead of following Jesus by giving up all. Why did he claim to be a Pharisee even after conversion? Of course, Paul did sacrifice, but, unfortunately, not his boasting ego, craftiness and superior feeling among semi-literate chosen apostles, which led to many self-claims.

How can his epistles written sitting elsewhere to the specific problems of his founded churches be a part of Sola Scriptura?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why is that the role of the Holy Spirit is being ignored here?

You were talking about Bible translations. I am just saying with some work you can look at the Greek or Hebrew.

Not ignoring the Holy Spirit. Just trying to speak to Bible versions. I thought that was what you wanted to discuss. We do need to understand the basic tenants of scripture. The Holy Spirit most often teaches through scripture, IMHO.

 

[Righttruth]

I don't really get the point you are trying to make.

Is it "There's no way to know God's truth?" If the Scriptures that just about every last Christian denomination considers authoritative and has done so for countless centuries aren't considered reliable, then what is...if anything?

By the way, there are "errors" in various translations, but that doesn't mean that the essential message is lost. Many of these "errors" have almost no impact upon the message.

Jesus is truth. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to remind us of that. What if other writings don't comply with that?

 

[Righttruth]

Perhaps the critics would like to point out an textual variation or two that they personally find troublesome for their own faith journey?

One example:

John 18: 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (KJV)

37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."(NASB)

The word 'correctly' has been introduced in NASB to mislead that Jesus approved the correctness of Pilate's statement. KJV simply indicates that Jesus repeated what Pilate said.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't think Paul was that rich compared to rich young ruler who went away sadly instead of following Jesus by giving up all.

I'm pretty sure that I did not say that Paul was rich compared to the rich, young ruler. I'm pretty sure I did say that Pharisee's were rich in comparison to the Israelite's.

 

[Righttruth]

You were talking about Bible translations. I am just saying with some work you can look at the Greek or Hebrew.

Not ignoring the Holy Spirit. Just trying to speak to Bible versions. I thought that was what you wanted to discuss. We do need to understand the basic tenants of scripture. The Holy Spirit most often teaches through scripture, IMHO.

Yes, that is my point that the Holy Spirit teaches through writings. It need not be confined to a particular canon.

 

[Righttruth]

I'm pretty sure that I did not say that Paul was rich compared to the rich, young ruler. I'm pretty sure I did say that Pharisee's were rich in comparison to the Israelite's.

So it was not a great sacrifice at all when it comes to his material possessions. Otherwise, it is unnecessary propping up of Paul besides his letters.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus is truth. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to remind us of that. What if other writings don't comply with that?

No, that's not what the Bible says the Holy Spirit only does. If you are going to be exact, be exact. The Holy Spirit does much more than testify Jesus was God and Truth. What else does the Holy Spirit do?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, that is my point that the Holy Spirit teaches through writings. It need not be confined to a particular canon.

Don't confuse cannon with Bible versions. Two totally different things.

 

[Righttruth]

Don't confuse cannon with Bible versions. Two totally different things.

What happens to the truth then?

 

[Righttruth]

No, that's not what the Bible says the Holy Spirit only does. If you are going to be exact, be exact. The Holy Spirit does much more than testify Jesus was God and Truth. What else does the Holy Spirit do?

Where does the Holy Spirit say that Jesus is God? Did Jesus claim that He is the way, life, truth and God? Verse please.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Did Jesus claim that He is the way, life, truth and God? Verse please.

1. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
   1. John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
2. John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
3. John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
   1. Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.
4. John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
   1. Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
5. John 10:30-33, "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
6. John 20:28, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
7. Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
8. Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
9. Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
   1. Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."