Sola Scriptura defined....

1watchman · Oct 21, 2017

Well, as the saying goes: "a mind persuaded against its will, is of the same opinion still".

The eternal issue for our soul for Heaven is: 1. to be "born again" by receiving the Lord Jesus, the Christ of God, into our heart as lord of our life with devotion to Him daily ---whatever sect one is with; 2. Rewards in Heaven then are found in such as: a. how we have regarded the Son of God; b. how we have regarded the Word of God; c. how we regarded the testimony of God (by His immutable Word); d. how we regarded the people of God (all souls, and especially the true "born again" saints among us in the world). Look up always, friends!

Meowzltov · Oct 21, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
However, in order to go to heaven, according to the Catholic Church, one must believe the Four Marian Dogmas. It is a mortal sin to reject them. Thus, in order for a Protestant or and Eastern Orthodox Christian to even hope to go to heaven, according to the Catholic Church, they must conform their belief system to that of the Catholic Church.

This is true only for Catholics.

Meowzltov · Oct 21, 2017

Major1 said:
I say this with all respect due to you as it seems to me that you are a wonderful person and always have thoughtful words to say.

However, I am always amazed that when a Catholic believer is shown the error of their understanding, the fall back response is ............" You do not understand how Catholic teaching works on this matter. "

Please try to understand that we who challenge your comments and the RCC dogmas DO IN FACT understand how Catholic teaching works which is why we are not Catholic anymore.

It is just this simple. You/we/me read and understand the Scriptures as the Word of God and obey them......OR we read and understand the teachings of men and obey them.

There is NO middle ground on this! It is one or it is the other but it can not be both or a combination of both because the acceptance of the word and teachings of men automatically makes you guilty of rejecting the Scriptures as the Word of God.

You see, you believe that the assumption of Mary is reality. The problem however is that it is not found anywhere in the Bible neither is it suggested anywhere in the Bible. Therefore you have accepted the teachings of men over the Word of God.

The same understanding would be applied to Mary having no sin.
The same would apply to Mary be a perpetual virgin.
The same would apply to Bishops not being married.
The same would apply to the Rosary.
The same would apply to making the sign of the cross.
The same would apply to baptizing babies so that can be saved.

The list goes on and on and on but the bottom line always come back to the same theology. It is not a matter of understand Catholic theology as we in fact understand it completely! The bottom line is that we do not accept it at all bcause none of what I listed and more than just them can not be found in the Bible!

YOU believe mans word and teaching more than YOU do God's Word and teaching and we are just the opposite.

Be well and may God bless!

I pretty much quoted the catechism to you, although I did it without reference. So I will again, this time with reference, so that you will see that it truly is the teaching of the Church and that you are mistaken.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity.

bbbbbbb · Oct 21, 2017

Open Heart said:
This is true only for Catholics.

Hence, it is infinitely easier for a non-Catholic to go to heaven than a Catholic simply because none of the Catholic rules are applied to non-Catholics.

DeaconDean · Oct 21, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
Partially true. You yourself in your previous post excluded everyone who does not hold that the assumption of Mary is an infallible dogma. The fact is that your denomination holds outsiders away from it by calling them "separated brethren" when, in actual, fact it is your denomination which is separated. It has proclaimed that it is an infallible truth that must be believed in order to be saved that Mary was conceived without sin, is perpetually sinless, is perpetually a virgin, and was assumed directly into heaven (where she now reigns as Queen of Heaven and intercedes for her people - those who have placed their faith in her).

"Not in communion" is the term.

God Bless

Till all are one.

bbbbbbb · Oct 21, 2017

DeaconDean said:
"Not in communion" is the term.

God Bless

Till all are one.

That is one term, but the preferred term is "separated brethren". Unitatis redintegratio - Wikipedia

DeaconDean · Oct 22, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
That is one term, but the preferred term is "separated brethren". Unitatis redintegratio - Wikipedia

You know, it really is funny that some 241 years ago partly based on the belief of freedom of religion.

No state can mandate a particular religion as "The" religion.

However, as we have seen in this thread, even today, some 600 years after the Reformation, "Protestants" still are hated and bashed because of our beliefs, our convictions, our separation from the "mother church".

Sad part is, I see no end of this until Jesus returns.

God Bless

Till all are one.

bbbbbbb · Oct 22, 2017

DeaconDean said:
You know, it really is funny that some 241 years ago partly based on the belief of freedom of religion.

No state can mandate a particular religion as "The" religion.

However, as we have seen in this thread, even today, some 600 years after the Reformation, "Protestants" still are hated and bashed because of our beliefs, our convictions, our separation from the "mother church".

Sad part is, I see no end of this until Jesus returns.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree. I have ancestors that came to America to escape persecution in England and others who came to flee religious persecution in Germany. After five generations of my mother's family who endured persecution in a Catholic city I left and moved where the Catholics are not a majority.

Meowzltov · Oct 24, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
Hence, it is infinitely easier for a non-Catholic to go to heaven than a Catholic simply because none of the Catholic rules are applied to non-Catholics.

But the Catholic experiences the richer fuller Christian life.

DeaconDean · Oct 24, 2017

Open Heart said:
But the Catholic experiences the richer fuller Christian life.

That's debatable.

God Bless

Till all are one.

bbbbbbb · Oct 24, 2017

DeaconDean said:
That's debatable.

God Bless

Till all are one.

My thought, precisely.

Fidelibus · Oct 24, 2017

Open Heart said:
But the Catholic experiences the richer fuller Christian life.

So true Open Heart, and as a former member of many different Protestant sects, I can attest to it.

For example, In my day's worshiping God as a Protestant, I always felt as if there was more I could/should do in my worship of God. Only after my conversion to the Catholic Church had I started using all of my senses (Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Smelling, and Touching) in my worship of Him.

As in the touch of holy water, the smell of incense, the wonderful glow of stained glass windows/candles, hearing of the written word, homilies, music, and of course, the taste of the Eucharist! I learned in my conversion, that Catholicism doesn’t deny the power of the body; it actually celebrates it. And now at Mass, when I kneel and hear the Great Amen and see the crucifix, smell of insense, and taste the Body of Christ, I am living a faith that invites me to taste and see the goodness of the Lord, and to hear and smell and touch it, too.

Guess I could say that in my conversion to the Catholic faith, I came to my senses, and learned to celebrate how God reached me through my eyes, nose, mouth, hands, ears, and skin. It’s a chance to become conscious of faith as a full-body experience, and to see how that awareness made me ever more fully alive. Something that was foreign to me as a Protestant.

Major1 · Oct 24, 2017

Open Heart said:
But the Catholic experiences the richer fuller Christian life.

That is a personal opinion my dear and it is not Biblical in any way.

Major1 · Oct 24, 2017

Fidelibus said:
So true Open Heart, and as a former member of many different Protestant sects, I can attest to it.

For example, In my day's worshiping God as a Protestant, I always felt as if there was more I could/should do in my worship of God. Only after my conversion to the Catholic Church had I started using all of my senses (Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Smelling, and Touching) in my worship of Him.

As in the touch of holy water, the smell of incense, the wonderful glow of stained glass windows/candles, hearing of the written word, homilies, music, and of course, the taste of the Eucharist! I learned in my conversion, that Catholicism doesn’t deny the power of the body; it actually celebrates it. And now at Mass, when I kneel and hear the Great Amen and see the crucifix, smell of insense, and taste the Body of Christ, I am living a faith that invites me to taste and see the goodness of the Lord, and to hear and smell and touch it, too.

Guess I could say that in my conversion to the Catholic faith, I came to my senses, and learned to celebrate how God reached me through my eyes, nose, mouth, hands, ears, and skin. It’s a chance to become conscious of faith as a full-body experience, and to see how that awareness made me ever more fully alive. Something that was foreign to me as a Protestant.

1 John 2:19.......
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

bbbbbbb · Oct 24, 2017

Fidelibus said:
So true Open Heart, and as a former member of many different Protestant sects, I can attest to it.

For example, In my day's worshiping God as a Protestant, I always felt as if there was more I could/should do in my worship of God. Only after my conversion to the Catholic Church had I started using all of my senses (Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Smelling, and Touching) in my worship of Him.

As in the touch of holy water, the smell of incense, the wonderful glow of stained glass windows/candles, hearing of the written word, homilies, music, and of course, the taste of the Eucharist! I learned in my conversion, that Catholicism doesn’t deny the power of the body; it actually celebrates it. And now at Mass, when I kneel and hear the Great Amen and see the crucifix, smell of insense, and taste the Body of Christ, I am living a faith that invites me to taste and see the goodness of the Lord, and to hear and smell and touch it, too.

Guess I could say that in my conversion to the Catholic faith, I came to my senses, and learned to celebrate how God reached me through my eyes, nose, mouth, hands, ears, and skin. It’s a chance to become conscious of faith as a full-body experience, and to see how that awareness made me ever more fully alive. Something that was foreign to me as a Protestant.

Sensuality is not spirituality, as any Catholic nun or monk will inform you. You have focused on mere shadows and not the reality.

Fidelibus · Oct 24, 2017

Major1 said:
1 John 2:19.......
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Yes, thanks be to God for leading me into the fullness of the Catholic faith!

Fidelibus · Oct 24, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
Sensuality is not spirituality, as an Catholic nun or monk will inform you. You have focused on mere shadows and not the reality.

Say's who?

bbbbbbb · Oct 24, 2017

Fidelibus said:
Say's who?

Where do we start? St. Bernard of Clairveaux would be a fine example. Have you ever talked with a monk or a nun?

Meowzltov · Oct 24, 2017

Major1 said:
That is a personal opinion my dear and it is not Biblical in any way.

But it is. The Bible speaks of Real Presence, the annointing of the sick, the laying on of hands for ordination (Apostolic Succession), salvific baptism, infusion of grace (transformation of the individual), auricular confession as a necessity, Mary being full of grace (kecharitomene), Mary as the Queen of Heaven, and more.

As Catholics, we have the benefit of the sacraments, a relationship with Mary and the rest of the Saints, and a connection with 2000 years of the Church in history.

Major1 · Oct 24, 2017

Open Heart said:
But it is. The Bible speaks of Real Presence, the annointing of the sick, the laying on of hands for ordination (Apostolic Succession), salvific baptism, infusion of grace (transformation of the individual), auricular confession as a necessity, Mary being full of grace (kecharitomene), Mary as the Queen of Heaven, and more.

As Catholics, we have the benefit of the sacraments, a relationship with Mary and the rest of the Saints, and a connection with 2000 years of the Church in history.

That does not make you anymore of a Christian than you standing in a garage and claim to be a car.

Protestants believers also have the Real Presence of the Holy Spirit.
They have the ability of anointing the sick.
They also have the assurance of laying on of hands.
They also have Baptism.
They also have the ability confess as God leads them to.

They have Communion and also 2000 years of church history.

They do not have Mary as the Queen of heaven because that is simply not a Bible term so it does not apply.

Neither do they have 7 or 8 crusades that killed millions in the name of religion.

Neither do they have the Inquisition which no one know how many died.

Sola Scriptura defined....

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