Sola Fide and Sin

[saintboniface]

What do sola fide adherents believe about sin? If salvation is based on faith alone, does it matter whether one sins frequently, or whether one commits the most grave sins, or whether one is sinning at the time of death?

 

[Tangible]

The Christian life is a life of repentance. We live, we work in our vocations, and inevitably we sin. God grants us repentance and we turn back to him and away from our sin in sorrow and contrition. We believe the Gospel that Christ died for the sins of the world, including every one of ours. We are forgiven for all of our sins because we have been given new life in Christ in our Baptisms.

There is such a thing as mortal sin, however. This is sin for which we are unrepentant. Resisting God's call to repentance is rank unbelief. Persisting in unrepentance until death certainly places our souls in jeopardy.

In God's Word we have a strong word of Law warning us of the seriousness of unrepentant sin and threatening to cut us off from Christ if our belief is allowed to become unbelief.

However, we also have God's sweet promise of the Gospel that brings us the good news that nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, and that he will seek out the wandering sheep and will in no way let us fall out of his hand.

Faith is not a once and done thing. It is a living, active thing that can grow in us and produce in us all manner of good works for the benefit of our neighbor. If neglected and actively put down faith can also weaken and die.

So in the end we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and if we foolishly choose a life of unrepentance and unbelief we show that God's gift of faith is no longer active within us and that we have fallen away.

God's graceful gift of repentance is always there for us, and no matter how grievous our sin and no matter how long we persist in unrepentance, and when we stop fighting and yield to the love of God and believe in his complete forgiveness for the sake of the works and merits of Christ alone, we are certainly restored to our place in Christ and enjoy the benefits of his justification through faith alone.

Doesn't seem fair? See the Parable of the Workers in Matt 20.

But all this does not mean that repentance is a work that we do in order to atone for our sins. We remain sinners until death, and even our most sincere and heartfelt act of contrition is lacking and incomplete. We all know that we can confess our sins and receive absolution in one minute and commit the grossest and most embarrassing sin in our heart the next.

Being repentant does not mean that we will stop sinning. If that were the case then even St. Paul would have been unrepentant if we believe what he wrote in Romans 7.

 

[saintboniface]

The Christian life is a life of repentance. We live, we work in our vocations, and inevitably we sin. God grants us repentance and we turn back to him and away from our sin in sorrow and contrition. We believe the Gospel that Christ died for the sins of the world, including every one of ours. We are forgiven for all of our sins because we have been given new life in Christ in our Baptisms.

There is such a thing as mortal sin, however. This is sin for which we are unrepentant. Resisting God's call to repentance is rank unbelief. Persisting in unrepentance until death certainly places our souls in jeopardy.

In God's Word we have a strong word of Law warning us of the seriousness of unrepentant sin and threatening to cut us off from Christ if our belief is allowed to become unbelief.

However, we also have God's sweet promise of the Gospel that brings us the good news that nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, and that he will seek out the wandering sheep and will in no way let us fall out of his hand.

Faith is not a once and done thing. It is a living, active thing that can grow in us and produce in us all manner of good works for the benefit of our neighbor. If neglected and actively put down faith can also weaken and die.

So in the end we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and if we foolishly choose a life of unrepentance and unbelief we show that God's gift of faith is no longer active within us and that we have fallen away.

God's graceful gift of repentance is always there for us, and no matter how grievous our sin and no matter how long we persist in unrepentance, and when we stop fighting and yield to the love of God and believe in his complete forgiveness for the sake of the works and merits of Christ alone, we are certainly restored to our place in Christ and enjoy the benefits of his justification through faith alone.

Doesn't seem fair? See the Parable of the Workers in Matt 20.

But all this does not mean that repentance is a work that we do in order to atone for our sins. We remain sinners until death, and even our most sincere and heartfelt act of contrition is lacking and incomplete. We all know that we can confess our sins and receive absolution in one minute and commit the grossest and most embarrassing sin in our heart the next.

Being repentant does not mean that we will stop sinning. If that were the case then even St. Paul would have been unrepentant if we believe what he wrote in Romans 7.

Thanks for that detailed response. I can see what you are saying.

So would it be fair to say that you believe the doing of good works and the not doing of sin are required for salvation - but only in that they are evidence of faith?

 

[Tangible]

Thanks for that detailed response. I can see what you are saying.

So would it be fair to say that you believe the doing of good works and the not doing of sin are required for salvation - but only in that they are evidence of faith?

I don't believe that any doing of good works or refraining from sin are required for salvation. That would be the error of assuming that because saving faith is associated with growing in good works and refraining from sin that these works cause the salvation granted us by God through faith in Christ. As the statisticians say, correlation does not imply causation.

We are justified before God through God's gracious gift to us of faith/trust in Jesus Christ alone - in the sufficiency and substitutionary nature of his merits and works alone, quite apart from any good works or refraining from sin done by us.

Saving faith in Jesus Christ will necessarily produce within the Christian good works and growth in refraining from sin - but they are the product of our justification, never the cause.

 

[saintboniface]

I don't believe that any doing of good works or refraining from sin are required for salvation. That would be the error of assuming that because saving faith is associated with growing in good works and refraining from sin that these works cause the salvation granted us by God through faith in Christ. As the statisticians say, correlation does not imply causation.

We are justified before God through God's gracious gift to us of faith/trust in Jesus Christ alone - in the sufficiency and substitutionary nature of his merits and works alone, quite apart from any good works or refraining from sin done by us.

Saving faith in Jesus Christ will necessarily produce within the Christian good works and growth in refraining from sin - but they are the product of our justification, never the cause.

Would you say then that God measures our faith by our works?

I'm not clear on how you can say that works are not required for salvation. In order to have salvation, you must have faith. In order to prove to God that you have faith, you must do works.

In order to buy X, you have to purchase ticket B. However, to purchase ticket B, you must first purchase ticket A. Is not the purchase of ticket A a requirement to buy X?

In the end of Matthew 25, Jesus says those who fed the hungry will have eternal life but those that didn't won't have eternal life. He doesn't say anything about having faith. Likewise, in Corinthians 6:9, St Paul says that the unrighteous, adulterers, etc will not inherit the kingdom. Neither Jesus nor St Paul mention faith. Must it be presumed that they mean that the true reason that these sinners won't have eternal life is that they don't have faith and these sins are examples of faithlessness?

 

[Tangible]

Would you say then that God measures our faith by our works?

See quote below.

I'm not clear on how you can say that works are not required for salvation. In order to have salvation, you must have faith. In order to prove to God that you have faith, you must do works.

Since God is my Savior, not myself, I cannot prove my worthiness for salvation because I am a poor, miserable sinner and in and of myself I am worthy only of death and Hell.

In order to buy X, you have to purchase ticket B. However, to purchase ticket B, you must first purchase ticket A. Is not the purchase of ticket A a requirement to buy X?

Gifts are never purchased by the recipient. Otherwise it's not a gift.

In the end of Matthew 25, Jesus says those who fed the hungry will have eternal life but those that didn't won't have eternal life. He doesn't say anything about having faith. Likewise, in Corinthians 6:9, St Paul says that the unrighteous, adulterers, etc will not inherit the kingdom. Neither Jesus nor St Paul mention faith. Must it be presumed that they mean that the true reason that these sinners won't have eternal life is that they don't have faith and these sins are examples of faithlessness?

This is both a logical error and a factual error. I'm not here to debate.

The following is a very good exposition on the relationship between works and faith with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Faith is not what some people think it is. Their human dream is a delusion. Because they observe that faith is not followed by good works or a better life, they fall into error, even though they speak and hear much about faith. “Faith is not enough,” they say, “You must do good works, you must be pious to be saved.” They think that, when you hear the gospel, you start working, creating by your own strength a thankful heart which says, “I believe.” That is what they think true faith is. But, because this is a human idea, a dream, the heart never learns anything from it, so it does nothing and reform doesn’t come from this `faith,’ either.

Instead, faith is God’s work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.

An excerpt from “An Introduction to St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans,” Luther’s German Bible of 1522 by Martin Luther, 1483-1546
Translated by Rev. Robert E. Smith from DR. MARTIN LUTHER’S VERMISCHTE DEUTSCHE SCHRIFTEN. Johann K. Irmischer, ed. Vol. 63 Erlangen: Heyder and Zimmer, 1854), pp.124-125. [EA 63:124-125]

 

[saintboniface]

See quote below.

Since God is my Savior, not myself, I cannot prove my worthiness for salvation because I am a poor, miserable sinner and in and of myself I am worthy only of death and Hell.

Gifts are never purchased by the recipient. Otherwise it's not a gift.

This is both a logical error and a factual error. I'm not here to debate.

The following is a very good exposition on the relationship between works and faith with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Thanks, I think I understand the position.

 

[St_Worm2]

...would it be fair to say that you believe the doing of good works and the not doing of sin are required for salvation - but only in that they are evidence of faith?

I agree with Tangible throughout this thread. I would only like to add that the need for an "evidence of faith" (e.g. James 2:24's "justified") lies with us alone. By our works we may be justified before men (James 2) concerning the truth of our faith claims, but not before God, who knows our hearts.

Works can be deceptive, but again, not to God .. see Matthew 7:22-23.

Yours and His,
David

“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name
cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them,
I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’​

Matthew 7:22-23​

 

[Tangible]

By our works we may be justified before men (James 2) concerning the truth of our faith claims, but not before God, who knows our hearts.

Works can be deceptive, but again, not to God .. see Matthew 7:22-23.

The coram deo/coram homnibus distinction.

 

[St_Worm2]

The coram deo/coram homnibus distinction.

That's all Greek to me .. , but yes ..

 

[St_Worm2]

Would you say then that God measures our faith by our works?

No (see my first post), God knows our hearts.

In the end of Matthew 25, Jesus says those who fed the hungry will have eternal life but those that didn't won't have eternal life. He doesn't say anything about having faith. Likewise, in Corinthians 6:9, St Paul says that the unrighteous, adulterers, etc will not inherit the kingdom. Neither Jesus nor St Paul mention faith. Must it be presumed that they mean that the true reason that these sinners won't have eternal life is that they don't have faith and these sins are examples of faithlessness?

Aside from agreeing with Tangible concerning the factual problem with one of your statements above (in bold), and the fact that I understand this passage from Matthew 25 to be the "Judgment of the Nations" (Matthew 25:32), not the "White Throne", salvation is always by Grace/Faith ALONE, not according to our works (see Matthew 25:34). So if the works of those in Matt 25 and 1 Cor 6 are understood by you to be the result of faith (or the lack thereof), I agree with you ..

Yours and His,
David

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done
in righteousness, but according to His mercy"
Titus 3:5​

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What do sola fide adherents believe about sin? If salvation is based on faith alone, does it matter whether one sins frequently, or whether one commits the most grave sins, or whether one is sinning at the time of death?

When we are saved, the Holy Spirit comes to live in our hearts. Through prayer, reading scripture, and the Lord's help we should not continue in frequent sin. If you or someone that you know has been struggling with specific sins, offer to pray for them daily. Maybe conduct a bible study with them, the Word is powerful in changing our hearts and minds. To know how much God loves us, unconditionally makes us realize just how special this new relationship with God really is. Offer to pray with them after the study.

Many times they just don't know how or think what they do won't be good enough. This is hog wash, however.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[hotwater]

Salvation is not by faith alone. The word alone means nothing else is required.
Protestants contradict themselves with the SOLA FIDE thingy.

GRACE, FAITH, WORKS involved in worshiping God, and the BLOOD of Christ = Salvation
All of these play a part in salvation.

E.g., Would God call those who disown him, his sons, "Born Again"? Yet many believe they are "Born Again" even though they disown God by their works.

 

[Albion]

What do sola fide adherents believe about sin?

Pretty much the same as people who adhere to Works Righteousness.

If salvation is based on faith alone, does it matter whether one sins frequently, or whether one commits the most grave sins, or whether one is sinning at the time of death?

Of course it matters. Every sin is an offense against God.

Incidentally, I noticed in the earlier exchange that the confusion about works and faith is the one that usually surfaces in threads like this one. I refer to the idea that if works do not determine whether or not we are saved, they must not matter at all. Yes, they matter very much but they do not put away God's judgment towards sinners.

 

[saintboniface]

Pretty much the same as people who adhere to Works Righteousness.


Of course it matters. Every sin is an offense against God.

Incidentally, I noticed in the earlier exchange that the confusion about works and faith is the one that usually surfaces in threads like this one. I refer to the idea that if works do not determine whether or not we are saved, they must not matter at all. Yes, they matter very much but they do not put away God's judgment towards sinners.

Pretty much the same but not quite the same, right?

Every sin is an offense against God - true both for works and faith alone. The difference lies in the impact of the sin on one's salvation. For faith alone, sin has no affect on salvation - for works faith sin does have an affect on salvation.

What do you mean "they do not put away God's judgment towards sinners."??

 

[Albion]

Pretty much the same but not quite the same, right?

It was just an expression. I can't see that there's any difference , but if you have another idea on that subject I'll be more than willing to hear it.

Every sin is an offense against God - true both for works and faith alone. The difference lies in the impact of the sin on one's salvation. For faith alone, sin has no affect on salvation - for works faith sin does have an affect on salvation.

That's correct, but both sides see sin as wrong and an offense against God. What you are describing here is, I think, the consequence of sinning, not what we think of sin itself.

What do you mean "they do not put away God's judgment towards sinners."??

Works are important. They are the fruits of a lively faith. They represent the application of Christ's moral teachings to our lives.

What they do NOT do is earn God's favor towards us and, thereby, make our salvation more likely.

 

[saintboniface]

It was just an expression. I can't see that there's any difference , but if you have another idea on that subject I'll be more than willing to hear it.

That's correct, but both sides see sin as wrong and an offense against God. What you are describing here is, I think, the consequence of sinning, not what we think of sin itself.

Works are important. They are the fruits of a lively faith. They represent the application of Christ's moral teachings to our lives.

What they do NOT do is earn God's favor towards us and, thereby, make our salvation more likely.

Yes, my question was meant to address the consequences of sin under faith-alone versus works-faith.

Good works do make our salvation more likely and bad works (sin) make it less likely. 2 Corinthians 5:9-10 “Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” How else do you explain this passage?

To say we earn God's favor towards us through work could be debatable. What we do know is that God allows us to merit salvation. He sets up the game for us to play so to speak. It was His choice to set the game up the way He did.

 

[Albion]

Yes, my question was meant to address the consequences of sin under faith-alone versus works-faith.

Ah. Well, that might change the answer somewhat.,

Good works do make our salvation more likely and bad works (sin) make it less likely.

As you know by now, I completely reject that notion as contrary to the Gospel.

To say we earn God's favor towards us through work could be debatable.

If faith AND works both "count" towards us either obtaining salvation or, OTOH, not attaining it, that's what works amount to--something that supposedly causes God to approve of us.

What we do know is that God allows us to merit salvation.

Only in the sense that he saves us by granting us his grace. There is nothing of ourselves that "deserves" salvation or earns it.

 

[saintboniface]

Ah. Well, that might change the answer somewhat.,


As you know by now, I completely reject that notion as contrary to the Gospel.


If faith AND works both "count" towards us either obtaining salvation or, OTOH, not attaining it, that's what works amount to--something that supposedly causes God to approve of us.


Only in the sense that he saves us by granting us his grace. There is nothing of ourselves that "deserves" salvation or earns it.

The father says to his son, "Clean up your toys and eat your dinner. If you do these things I will take you to the ballgame." The son does these things and the father takes him to the ballgame. If the father hadn't set the parameters for going to the ballgame the son would not have gone. The father didn't have to make the offer but he did.

You are right, we don't deserve salvation or earn it of ourselves. God lets us participate in securing our salvation. The passage I just cited cannot be interpreted any other way. There are numerous other passages of the same nature. In fact, almost every parable Jesus tells, his whole ministry, concerns works for salvation. Its undeniable.

 

[Albion]

You are right, we don't deserve salvation or earn it of ourselves. God lets us participate in securing our salvation.

You use an analogy to a human father taking his son to the ballgame as a reward, but if we are guided in our understanding of this matter by the Bible, we are faced with sin--which totally estranges us from God. Sin can only be overcome by God himself. In his mercy, he did for us what we could not do by trying to keep the Law.

If we could have saved ourselves--with God's permission of course--men would have done that and God would not have needed to send his only Son to die on the Cross for us. What's more, there is plenty in Scripture that attests to Salvation being by Faith and not Works.