sodomy

[devotedwifey]

when looking up the term "sodomy" from dictionary.com i get:

1.anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex. 2.copulation with a member of the same sex. 3. beastiality (def. 4).

now i cant give you scriptures because i dont know the numbers and stuff (still learning) but do know it is talked about quite a few times in the bible. What i want to know is having Oral or anal sex with your husband is wrong according to the bible, and/or catholic belief.

if theres a topic on this already point me in that direction please.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Is this a philosophical or practical question ?

 

[JoabAnias]

Here is an article: Oral Sex in Marriage

And here are a few good discussions:
oral sex with my wife ok?
Oral Sex and Mortal Sin
Oral Sex if we are practicing natural family planning?

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

sperm ultimately ends up in the vagina...

Everything else is possibly disordered, but morally a-okay.

 

[JoabAnias]

Is this a philosophical or practical question ?

Falls in the category of moral theology I do believe which could be considered very practical.

 

[QuantaCura]

The "do-whatever-perversion-you-want-as-long-as-the-seed-is-deposited-in-the-right-place" attitude is a bit of legalism that misses the mark. Marriage is a sacrament and copulation is an important part of that sacrament--and it should be treated as such. We should not be departing from the natural order God has established and we should treat marital relations with the proper dignity.

Something can't be disordered, but morally ok if we are willfully choosing the disordered behavior. That's what the principle of natural law is all about.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

There is great dignity in pleasuring your spouse- don't you think Quanta? I think one of the best things spouses can do for each other is really, really discover what each other likes in bed and give selflessly...and if that includes oral sex and neither spouse feels pressured or coerced to doing that as part of sex--but they feely and lovingly choose to want to give pleasure to their spouse that way, well that is an awesome thing- not something which negates sacredness.

 

[JoabAnias]

There is great dignity in pleasuring your spouse- don't you think Quanta? I think one of the best things spouses can do for each other is really, really discover what each other likes in bed and give selflessly...and if that includes oral sex and neither spouse feels pressured or coerced to doing that as part of sex--but they feely and lovingly choose to want to give pleasure to their spouse that way, well that is an awesome thing- not something which negates sacredness.

Depends on how far you take it. What then?

 

[MichaelD111]

Something can't be disordered, but morally ok if we are willfully choosing the disordered behavior. That's what the principle of natural law is all about.

How can Thomas Aquinas be so arrogant to assume that he knows exactly what constitutes natural law? Who is he to say that a male must deposit his seed within the woman, and that everything else is disordered? How the heck does he know?

 

[MichaelD111]

The fact is that no one has ever given a good argument as to why it is wrong for a man (during intimate relations with his wife) to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside her vagina.

Just like no one has ever given a good argument as to why it is wrong to use a condom yet acceptable to use NFP, when the intention is the same (to enjoy sexual pleasure while seeking to avoid the unwanted consequence of children).

 

[Globalnomad]

There is actually no authoritative Catholic teaching outlawing this. It's just interpretations of old, still respected but not infallible texts. The teaching that sperm must not be spilt outside the vagina - which IS accepted Catholic teaching - is in the context of the prohibition of unnatural contraception. The Church has never stated that the occasional "variation" - done for example during menstruation, or if the husband is tired or has a temporary injury that prevents him from doing the musclework required - is sinful, as long as it is not done out of selfishness or with the INTENTION of preventing conception, and you get back to normal intercourse as soon as possible.

Our authority is Humanae Vitae.

By the way, that definition of sodomy is questionable. Traditionally, only penetrative homosexual sex was referred to as sodomy. It extended to all homosexual activity and to heterosexual anal sex in more recent times. But it is inappropriate to heterosexual oral sex, although legislators have used sodomy laws in the past, to punish other forms of sex.

 

[JoabAnias]

Mod Hat On​

Non Catholics are not permitted to debate Catholic teaching in OBOB. This is a fellowship forum.


I would also add that this is a sensitive topic, please be sensible, civil and stick to the OP and within rules such as:

Do not say racist or sexist things. If the swear filter is activated, edit your post, don't try to bypass it. Don't post graphics or text you would not be comfortable sharing with someone's grandmother.

Mod Hat Off​

 

[PetersKeys]

How can Thomas Aquinas be so arrogant to assume that he knows exactly what constitutes natural law? Who is he to say that a male must deposit his seed within the woman, and that everything else is disordered? How the heck does he know?

Thomas Aquinas was an extremely smart man levels above many others thelogians. A good example would be Onias in the OT, who spilled his seed and God killed him for it.

The purpose of sperm is to impregnate the egg, it has no other place to go. So by natural law it would be immoral to engage in sodomy because it offers no other purpose except for selfish pleasure and objectifying ones partner for pleasure. You put conditions on love when you intend to take out the openess to life.

 

[Globalnomad]

Onan was not killed because he spilt his seed, but because he did it out of selfishness and against established custom. The point was the selfishness, not the spilling. It is the same point that remains today. Plenty of seed gets wasted with no selfishness involved - in NFP, in "wet dreams", etc.

 

[BAFRIEND]

The fact is that no one has ever given a good argument as to why it is wrong for a man (during intimate relations with his wife) to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside her vagina.

Just like no one has ever given a good argument as to why it is wrong to use a condom yet acceptable to use NFP, when the intention is the same (to enjoy sexual pleasure while seeking to avoid the unwanted consequence of children).

The Church has done both. It is up to us to labor our hearts aand conform in these matters.

The truth is always the same and the Church has never gone back on its moral teachings through more than two-thousand years. Actions of the leadership of the Church have not always been noble, but that is freewill.

If I want have duplicity and relativism in my life, then so be it. But the moral teachings of the Holy Spirit through the milliniums old Church are concrete.

What I am trying to say is that I can either plan my salvation in fear and trembling following the sound and proven moral theology of my Church led by the Holy Spirit- or I can do it by listening to joe schmoe on an internet message board speaking about the joys of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] without the mess of unwanted children. What should I do ?

 

[MikeK]

What should I do ?

That depends, do you want more children?

 

[Gwendolyn]

So every since there was a thread on this a long time ago, I've had a question I've been curious about.

Why do people say it is not okay for homosexuals to have anal sex, but it's okay for straight people to? Surely the issue is with more than just sexual orientation, isn't it? Does "sodomy" mean only "oral or anal sex with a member of the same sex"? I feel like people want it to mean that now.

But then again, I'm really grossed out by the concept of anal sex purely from a health standpoint. Good grief, there's so much possibility for illness to result from that.

 

[MikeK]

So every since there was a thread on this a long time ago, I've had a question I've been curious about.

Why do people say it is not okay for homosexuals to have anal sex, but it's okay for straight people to? Surely the issue is with more than just sexual orientation, isn't it? Does "sodomy" mean only "oral or anal sex with a member of the same sex"? I feel like people want it to mean that now.

But then again, I'm really grossed out by the concept of anal sex purely from a health standpoint. Good grief, there's so much possibility for illness to result from that.

A) I don't think I know any married couples IRL who haven't at least tried anal sex, yet I don't know a single one who's ever got sick from it. I asked my wife, she's been a Nurse for 10 years, she's never seen a patient who got sick as a result of anal sex....except AIDS, of course.

B) Oral and anal sex between homosexuals is wrong according to the Church for the same reasons that manual genital stimulation is wrong. Oral and anal sex between husband and wife is acceptable according to the Church for the same reasons that manual genital stimulation is acceptable (and with the same stipulation - that the male complete in the vagina). Foreplay and afterplay are okay.

 

[Anglian]

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are made in the image of God. The teaching of the Catholic Church is based upon these precepts and upon what Holy Scripture says about sodomy.

Self-willed and fond of thinking that what we would like must be OK, we err and stray from His ways like lost sheep; but it is not recorded that the sheep were convinced they were in the right place and boasted about it.

Homosexual intercourse is sinful; so is heterosexual intercourse when it is between people who are not married or married to other people. Homosexuals often go to great lengths to explain why their actions are OK; heterosexuals are often grateful that concentration on sodomy moves the spotlight from their sins.

It would be interesting to know, authoritatively, what the Church teaches about heterosexual sodomy, but it would be surprising if it thought that was a respectful way to treat the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

Anglian

h

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

The fact is that no one has ever given a good argument as to why it is wrong for a man (during intimate relations with his wife) to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside her vagina.

You do realize that this is The Catholic forum and that that is the Authentic, De Fide teaching of the Catholic Church don't you?