sodomy

[MoNiCa4316]

I think Anglian has made a good point about being temples of the Holy Spirit.

the Bible says, glorify God with your body.

Maybe before we do anything with our bodies we should remember first, that God Himself lives within us - the Holy Spirit, and also Jesus when we receive the Eucharist.. and then ask ourselves, whether it would still be right to do what we were planning to do.

To me, sodomy (using the OP's definition) doesn't pass the test.

 

[SolidFaith247]

hmm

 

[JoabAnias]

Why do people say it is not okay for homosexuals to have anal sex, but it's okay for straight people to? I feel like people want it to mean that now.

But then again, I'm really grossed out by the concept of anal sex purely from a health standpoint. Good grief, there's so much possibility for illness to result from that.

I think your right. Its called LUST that many married couples fall into mistakenly thinking it isn't really sin because its within the context of marriage. I know I did once. The cure was painful too.

Its one step away from much worse things and if the truth be known the same liberal attitude is probably held toward porn too. I can surmise that these folks who think this way also fail to temper their gaze at others and we know what Jesus said about that.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Now everyone is going to chime in and say that it glorifies God to be with their spouse, because selfless giving is what God desires in a marriage relationship. You aren't going to get many votes in line with that thinking. ^^

 

[JoabAnias]

Oral and anal sex between husband and wife is acceptable according to the Church.

Can you show me one Church teaching that says that?

 

[MikeK]

To me, sodomy (using the OP's definition) doesn't pass the test.

I think Jesus wants me to take my wife's desires and preferences and requests into account when we make love.

Please explain further. Which activities (presuming they are mutually desired and agreed upon) do you suppose Jesus doesn't want us doing with him present in us? The Church is clear that kissing is okay, and JPII was clear that we are to see to it that both parties are satisfied durring lovemaking and that foreplay and afterplay are okay - so why do you suppose that kissing your spouse there is going to make Jesus sad?

 

[Globalnomad]

Sodomy in the OP's definition - which includes oral sex between man and wife - does not fail the test, Monica. Be careful not to confuse an irrational "ick-feeling" with a moral judgement. Face it, if we listened to our initial "ick-feelings", and did not educate ourselves away from them, we would then consider ALL sex grossly immoral. (Remember when you were first told about sex?) Let me tell you from the experience of a long and loving marriage, oral sex has an important and altogether respectable place in it - especially at times of certain types of illness or unfitness.


The Church is silent on this particular matter, it's as simple as that.

 

[MikeK]

Can you show me one Church teaching that says that?

Nope. Being that this activity (oral sex) has been common between husbands and wives for centuries and the church has hasd over 2000 years to explicitely condemn it and hasn't, I assume the Church sees it as a good or nuetral activity.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Sodomy in the OP's definition - which includes oral sex between man and wife - does not fail the test, Monica. Be careful not to confuse an irrational "ick-feeling" with a moral judgement. Face it, if we listened to our initial "ick-feelings", and did not educate ourselves away from them, we would then consider ALL sex grossly immoral. (Remember when you were first told about sex?) Let me tell you from the experience of a long and loving marriage, oral sex has an important and altogether respectable place in it - especially at times of certain types of illness or unfitness.


The Church is silent on this particular matter, it's as simple as that.

The Church is not silent on this particular matter. Educate yourself beofre making such assumptions.

 

[JoabAnias]

Nope. Being that this activity (oral sex) has been common between husbands and wives for centuries and the church has hasd over 2000 years to explicitely condemn it and hasn't, I assume the Church sees it as a good or nuetral activity.

Yes but thats not sodomy is it?

So your saying because the Church isn't in your bedroom telling you what is and isn't immoral then whatever you decide is moral because your married then it must be church approved? Don't think it works that way bro.

You said that was OK within marriage too.

If one reads between the lines of Humanae Vitae there must be something.

 

[MikeK]

Yes but thats not sodomy is it?

You said that was ok within marriage too.

If one reads between the lines of Humanae Vitae there must be something.

The definition in the OP refers to oral sex as sodomy. How are you defining sodomy, and where is your definition from?

 

[JoabAnias]

The definition in the OP refers to oral sex as sodomy. How are you defining sodomy, and where is your definition from?

The OP mistakenly equates oral to sodomy. I am not referring to the OP but to what you said about anal.

This is my def: SODOMY

 

[Globalnomad]

The Church is not silent on this particular matter. Educate yourself beofre making such assumptions.

Please educate me.

 

[hawko]

I do not see anything wrong with oral sex with my wife. It is a natural part of foreplay. Actually, if I were to try to penetrate her without foreplay, it would be painful for her, (almost like rape.)

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I think your right. Its called LUST that many married couples fall into mistakenly thinking it isn't really sin because its within the context of marriage. I know I did once. The cure was painful too.

Its one step away from much worse things and if the truth be known the same liberal attitude is probably held toward porn too. I can surmise that these folks who think this way also fail to temper their gaze at others and we know what Jesus said about that.

I totally agree... I think that it's possible to fall into lust within marriage too, and yea that's pretty tricky because it's relatively easy to make it look like it's not a sin in that context..

'disordered' sexuality within a marriage is still disordered.. if that makes sense..

Now everyone is going to chime in and say that it glorifies God to be with their spouse, because selfless giving is what God desires in a marriage relationship. You aren't going to get many votes in line with that thinking. ^^

lol.. yea.. I think that it does glorify God to be with one's spouse but only in the way that He intended.

Let's remember that just as lies are often half-truths, sin is often corrupted good.

I think Jesus wants me to take my wife's desires and preferences and requests into account when we make love.

Please explain further. Which activities (presuming they are mutually desired and agreed upon) do you suppose Jesus doesn't want us doing with him present in us? The Church is clear that kissing is okay, and JPII was clear that we are to see to it that both parties are satisfied durring lovemaking and that foreplay and afterplay are okay - so why do you suppose that kissing your spouse there is going to make Jesus sad?

because the reason reproductive organs exist at all is to procreate. (lol I sound like a biology textbook..) oral sex is going outside of their intended function.

Sodomy in the OP's definition - which includes oral sex between man and wife - does not fail the test, Monica. Be careful not to confuse an irrational "ick-feeling" with a moral judgement. Face it, if we listened to our initial "ick-feelings", and did not educate ourselves away from them, we would then consider ALL sex grossly immoral. (Remember when you were first told about sex?) Let me tell you from the experience of a long and loving marriage, oral sex has an important and altogether respectable place in it - especially at times of certain types of illness or unfitness.


The Church is silent on this particular matter, it's as simple as that.

oki well I just have one reason for disagreeing with oral (and anal) sex. I do consider it "icky" lol but that's not the reason I have a problem with it. The problem is that as I said to Mike, those parts of the body are meant for something else. Those types of sex can't ever result in conception, so that seems wrong to me. It's the same reason that masturbation is considered a sin by the Church. It is my opinion that the only "right" type of sex is one that can potentially produce a child.

That being said, it's not my place to judge what people do with their spouses, I myself an not married and never have been. So for all I know, I might be wrong. But the way I put it in the above paragraph, that makes sense to me. I've decided to be careful about these things, because in the past I haven't been as pure as I should have been; so I just don't want to continue making mistakes. I'd rather be careful.

Maybe the best thing is to just pray about it God knows what the truth is. And as I said it's not my place to say what people should do with their wives/husbands..

 

[Anglian]

I don't know what the Church teaches on the topic which exercises some here, and it would be a kindness if someone has an authoritative source.

Lust, even within marriage, is something my own Church condemns, because it involves treating the wife or husband as something less than human; it is for much the same reason that my own Church condemns the use of pornography (in addition to the obvious ones). In our western society it is very easy to end up accepting an objectification of women; indeed, so easy that some women can also end up accepting it, if that is what their husbands want.

I am not saying anything here about whether oral intercourse is or is not licit, and in Egypt such things are not discussed, so my own Church rules on it only obliquely by discouraging all acts which might be seen as licentiousness- and it leaves it to our good Christian sense to work it out between husband and wife.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[BAFRIEND]

I have no sources, but do recall writings that placed oral sex in the same category as "m".

That only makes sense. To say that in 2k years the Church has never addressed this as a moral issue is like saying that McDonalds has never cooked a burger.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Similarly, the Bible does not mention oral sex in marriage, burt the Church has developed a clear sense of God's plan for marriage and the spousal act over the centuries. When He established His Church, Jesus authorized His Church to teach both faith AND MORALS.
Traditionally, the Church teaches that a married couple may engage in oral sex foreplay, but this should always lead to a climax through vaginal sex. Oral sex is not to be used as an alternative to vaginal sex, as a form of birth control.
Cordially yours, Fr. Matthew Habiger OSB
- EWTN FAQ

.

 

[Anglian]

Dear Barfriend,

Thank you for your help here.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I think Anglian has made a good point about being temples of the Holy Spirit.

the Bible says, glorify God with your body.

Maybe before we do anything with our bodies we should remember first, that God Himself lives within us - the Holy Spirit, and also Jesus when we receive the Eucharist.. and then ask ourselves, whether it would still be right to do what we were planning to do.

To me, sodomy (using the OP's definition) doesn't pass the test.

Conscience is also a big issue. We have to ask how we feel about it- us and our spouse. No matter how one might talk oneself into it... or be comfortable with it... if the spouse feels it is wrong, then it's wrong.