Sodom and Gomorrah

[MotherFirefly]

Satan is at work once again. That's why all your people hear is sexism.

You said: "Boys are not rapists, rapists are rapists."

You are missing my whole point. My point is rapists exist. Ok? Are you going to throw your own daughter to these rapists? Of course not!

Am I saying every single boys out there are rapists? Of course not! I am saying that teenager girls needs to be careful. This is not about having fun or freedom. Teenage girls must listen to their father in these things. Else it is so easy to take advantage of teenager girls.

Teenage boys can afford to be a bit rebellious. I know it is unfair but look at just this one example. Boys can get very drunk at a house party, and still the chance of them getting raped is almost zero.

Teenage girls cannot afford to be rebellious. I am sorry. The world is not fair. If they get that drunk at a house party, and if a rapists is present, the teenager girls might get raped. Even if they just drink water from a stranger, that water might have date drugs. This is real life. This is real world.

Once again I am not saying every boy is a rapists. But rapists exist! And the girls cannot count on their teenage (unreliable) friends for protection at all. The friends might either disappear from the party (happened, read the stories) or the friends will just watch the rapist(s) bring her upstairs and do nothing (happened, read the stories). Do you get it now?

Is this sexist? Why can a teenage boy get drunk all he wants, while a teenage girl can't? Hey look I am once again sorry ok? Boys and girls are different. This is how the world is.

Fury: SHIELD takes the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be

You said: Do you know why weak women like that exist? A lot of it has to do with this exact mentality that you preach in this post: Women need men.

The message to teenage boys is indeed "Women needs protections from men. And men are expected to provide that protection. In fact protect and defend not just your GF, but all females you see. " This teaches them chivalry. And I stand that every boy needs to learn to these kind of mindset to become a man. Else they will stay boys forever.

What are they going to tell their future wife? Oh I messed up a few times when I was a teenager. I drug raped a few women. I got a few GFs pregnant. How charming! Or hide that past from their wife, the person they loved the most.

But the message to teenage girls is different. The message to teenage girl is "Listen and obey your father. When he tells you to come home by 9, obey him. When he tells you to be very careful in house parties and watch out for dating drugs, listen to him."

In fact that message to teenage girl is not "women needs men" at all. It is in a way the exact opposite. The message is actually "Do not overly trust teenage boys around you. Some might be rapists or other terrible influence. Wait until you are old enough to discern the safety of the situation. And wait till you know more about how to discern who you can trust. Until then, obey your father."

So the message to boys and girls are different. To message to boys is for the protection of the girl. Be a hero and protect all ladies around you. The message to the girl is for her own protection. Listen to your dad. You can call me sexist all you want. My goal is to protect the women out there.

I agree with some of what you say, some I don't. But my main question is: what do you suppose happens when said teenage girls do not have a father figure? Or perhaps, their father figure is a poor excuse for one?
What about the teenage girls who are basically alone defending for themselves? Their only option is to trust the people around them, because they don't know much better. They can't be taught about how boys will take advantage of them, they will learn that the hard way.
Same goes for the teenage boys. If they do not have a figure in their life to guide them on how to be civil, what is to be done?
Most of the boys and men I have ever known had terrible ideals, morals, and attitudes.
They used everyone around them, mostly the women, till they sucked 'em dry and threw them away.

What can the system do about this?
What can the system do about the hundreds I *met* let alone the multitude more out there.
What can anyone do about the trailer homes that house 10-20+ teenagers and adults, all with nothing but clothes on their back and illegally obtained money?
What about those girls, who sleep with whoever feeds them?
Or the guys who kill eachother over a bed to sleep in?

It is so easy for us to complain about how we are mistreated while living in our nice houses and driving our nice cars.
We can get on tv and wine about how our nice clothes aren't nice enough.
Or how our women wanted to be treated like men just because.

That is fine. Let's keep complaining about how we want things. I just know, no matter how much we complain, those kids with nothing. Most will never have help. Most will never have rights. Most will never be loved.

Hence why I detest modern day feminists, and any other loud group of people. They don't know what is really out there. They don't know what suffering is really like. They never will.
Ungrateful, selfish people.

Rant over.

 

[MotherFirefly]

Resume rant-

I want to add: all of these 'party-going' teenagers you are talking about, they make the choice to go to a party, to flirt and drink and seduce. Maybe not all, but most, so they shouldn't be surprised when they get taken advantage of. The system can't fix stupidity no matter how hard it tries.

 

[James of Arc]

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[muichimotsu]

Difference between stupidity and ignorance is a willingness to admit you're wrong versus just not being aware of something and being able to learn afterwards. People are fallible and make bad decisions, but if you persist in enshrining a culture where men are superior and women just submit to them, it's no wonder we have issues manifesting in regards to a culture slowly becoming aware of the double standards it puts on men and women.

And that's not even getting into the idea of protecting females being hypocritical: treating them like victims and yet victimizing them in the same breath by doing so and not trying to change the underlying issues.

 

[Goodbook]

My friend was just a new christian. She was used to the party lifestyle and probably had already arranged to go and had not thought of other options. She had only known this new bf for a few weeks.

Yes, I would say she was naive and too trusting, but she was used to having at least her bf protect her. She was ringing her former bf's mum because she didn't feel safe.

anyway, this cost her her life, and yes she made poor decisions, but we all make poor decisions in our lives at some point, its not that christians are immune to this---and if we look at ourselves YES WE HAVE ALL BEEN STUPID at some point in our lives. But do you know what, Jesus forgives us because we didn't know what we were doing!

funny..today I found an animated dvd on Sodom and Gommorrah so am going to watch it. Should be fun. Or maybe not! Charles Heston is narrating.

 

[Goodbook]

I'm saying if there are ten righteous people, or even just one in the case of the good samaritan, nobody would have died. What did the good samaritan do, well he made sure the man robbed and left for dead was alright, and even paid the innkeeper to look after the guy. He did everything to make sure he was safe and cared for.

He didn't just say, oh that guy? He was stupid. He shouldn't have got robbed. He should have known better not to go there.

 

[muichimotsu]

My friend was just a new christian. She was used to the party lifestyle and probably had already arranged to go and had not thought of other options. She had only known this new bf for a few weeks.

Yes, I would say she was naive and too trusting, but she was used to having at least her bf protect her. She was ringing her former bf's mum because she didn't feel safe.

anyway, this cost her her life, and yes she made poor decisions, but we all make poor decisions in our lives at some point, its not that christians are immune to this---and if we look at ourselves YES WE HAVE ALL BEEN STUPID at some point in our lives. But do you know what, Jesus forgives us because we didn't know what we were doing!

funny..today I found an animated dvd on Sodom and Gommorrah so am going to watch it. Should be fun. Or maybe not! Charles Heston is narrating.

Then the problem is manifold: people thinking others are fine and not encouraging such casual disregard for safety

 

[SnowyMacie]

You said: "Boys are not rapists, rapists are rapists."

You are missing my whole point. My point is rapists exist. Ok? Are you going to throw your own daughter to these rapists? Of course not!

You are missing my point. Murderers also exist, so do kidnappers, crazy drivers, and a million other things that can harm my potential children, that does not give me the right to be overprotective and shelter them. Sure, there are things I should protect them from, but my job as a parent isn't to shield them from bad things in the world, but enable them to overcome them.

Am I saying every single boys out there are rapists? Of course not! I am saying that teenager girls needs to be careful. This is not about having fun or freedom. Teenage girls must listen to their father in these things. Else it is so easy to take advantage of teenager girls.

You say that not all boys are rapist, and then go on to imply that boys are looking to take advantage of girls, who are all easy apparently.

Teenage boys can afford to be a bit rebellious. I know it is unfair but look at just this one example. Boys can get very drunk at a house party, and still the chance of them getting raped is almost zero.

Actually, about 12% of men have experienced sexual violence, including rape, at some in their life. Yes, it's not as dangerous as being a woman, but you should still take precautions.

Teenage girls cannot afford to be rebellious. I am sorry. The world is not fair. If they get that drunk at a house party, and if a rapists is present, the teenager girls might get raped. Even if they just drink water from a stranger, that water might have date drugs. This is real life. This is real world.

That sounds like a good way to not get your daughter to trust anyone. I'm not advocating rebelliousness, I'd advocated for education our teenage girls.

Once again I am not saying every boy is a rapists. But rapists exist! And the girls cannot count on their teenage (unreliable) friends for protection at all. The friends might either disappear from the party (happened, read the stories) or the friends will just watch the rapist(s) bring her upstairs and do nothing (happened, read the stories). Do you get it now?

I think you've read too many stories.

Is this sexist? Why can a teenage boy get drunk all he wants, while a teenage girl can't?

Hey look I am once again sorry ok? Boys and girls are different. This is how the world is.

Teenagers shouldn't be getting drunk


You said: Do you know why weak women like that exist? A lot of it has to do with this exact mentality that you preach in this post: Women need men.

The message to teenage boys is indeed "Women needs protections from men. And men are expected to provide that protection. In fact protect and defend not just your GF, but all females you see. " This teaches them chivalry. And I stand that every boy needs to learn to these kind of mindset to become a man. Else they will stay boys forever.

Or treat women like they are people, not objects, and give them the utmost respect. That also teaches chivalry.

What are they going to tell their future wife? Oh I messed up a few times when I was a teenager. I drug raped a few women. I got a few GFs pregnant. How charming! Or hide that past from their wife, the person they loved the most.

To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out why you're so obsessed with premarital sex, and think that it's this great shameful, regretful burden that people carry around with them and should beg the forgiveness of their current partner. You are literally the only person I've ever heard anything remotely like that.

But the message to teenage girls is different. The message to teenage girl is "Listen and obey your father. When he tells you to come home by 9, obey him. When he tells you to be very careful in house parties and watch out for dating drugs, listen to him."

Or teach her how to be responsible.

In fact that message to teenage girl is not "women needs men" at all. It is in a way the exact opposite. The message is actually "Do not overly trust teenage boys around you. Some might be rapists or other terrible influence. Wait until you are old enough to discern the safety of the situation. And wait till you know more about how to discern who you can trust. Until then, obey your father."

Yes it is. Teenagers girls are old enough to discern safety and mature enough to teach them responsibility, what are you are saying is that they are not and need men (either their father or boyfriend) to do it for them.

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm saying if there are ten righteous people, or even just one in the case of the good samaritan, nobody would have died. What did the good samaritan do, well he made sure the man robbed and left for dead was alright, and even paid the innkeeper to look after the guy. He did everything to make sure he was safe and cared for.

He didn't just say, oh that guy? He was stupid. He shouldn't have got robbed. He should have known better not to go there.

The whole idea of the story suggested that it was inevitable, that the city was meant to be destroyed, practically.

Good Samaritan is only a slight counterexample to Sodom and Gomorrah in that he showed hospitality, while Sodom and Gomorrah did not

 

[CCHIPSS]

You are missing my point. Murderers also exist, so do kidnappers, crazy drivers, and a million other things that can harm my potential children, that does not give me the right to be overprotective and shelter them. Sure, there are things I should protect them from, but my job as a parent isn't to shield them from bad things in the world, but enable them to overcome them.

How does your daughter "overcome" rapists when you allow her to go to a house party? She will drink that drink. That drink will be drugged. And she will be taken upstairs.

You have no choice but to teach your daughter to avoid dangerous situations. Use common sense.Right?

Feminists: If boys can go to house parties, so can girls!!!

I did jump the gun when I said boys very rarely gets raped. But my point stands.

You said: Do you know why weak women like that exist? A lot of it has to do with this exact mentality that you preach in this post: Women need men.

Explain what you think this means: 1 Peter 3:7

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

God said women are the weaker vessel. How do you explain this?

I am not saying they are worth smaller or less than men. And not all women needs protection, as I said there are indeed strong women. But on average women are weaker.

To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out why you're so obsessed with premarital sex, and think that it's this great shameful, regretful burden that people carry around with them and should beg the forgiveness of their current partner. You are literally the only person I've ever heard anything remotely like that.

I do not mind if my wife had premarital sex before she met me. I forgive her. But when I have a child, I will try to prevent him/her from having premarital sex. Any decent Christian parent would do that.

 

[Goodbook]

Its not just girls who get raped, its guys too. And girls can come onto boys, especially if they older and the boy is younger. But usually its the men raping boys who are weaker or younger.

This can happen at an early age, which is why most who are confused about their identity have trauma or inappopriate touching when they are young, by someone they actually know.

A lot of the time this will happen in a single parent family, because the children are more vulnerable to outsiders. But it also can happen to just anyone who looks attractive to a predator. And you cannot blame a child for being attractive, because its not anything they do or wear its because they are young and trusting.

 

[Goodbook]

With my friend it seemed her mother pushed her away and was outside of the protection of her dad. She loved her dad but there was this weird family dynamic going on, and she was attractive, and he couldnt be there for her when she needed him.

After ten years when the lesbians still hadnt apologised and the police still accepted no responisbility it was her dad who said to put the matter to rest, as it was traumatic to bring it up again...with the coroner report etc he just said 'im a sad old dad' when your child goes missing because you failed to protect them there is nothing that will bring them back.

I saw her former bf once as he came into my work...applying for a card. To me he seemed just a kid, not a man. He even had a new gf. I thought to myself, if this was her bf the night she disappeared, no wonder. At the party, it seemed drugs were going on thats why she left but the partygoers all denied responisbilty.

 

[muichimotsu]

How does your daughter "overcome" rapists when you allow her to go to a house party? She will drink that drink. That drink will be drugged. And she will be taken upstairs.

You have no choice but to teach your daughter to avoid dangerous situations. Use common sense.Right?

Feminists: If boys can go to house parties, so can girls!!!

I did jump the gun when I said boys very rarely gets raped. But my point stands.



Explain what you think this means: 1 Peter 3:7

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

God said women are the weaker vessel. How do you explain this?

I am not saying they are worth smaller or less than men. And not all women needs protection, as I said there are indeed strong women. But on average women are weaker.



I do not mind if my wife had premarital sex before she met me. I forgive her. But when I have a child, I will try to prevent him/her from having premarital sex. Any decent Christian parent would do that.

So girls shouldn't do anything with any sort of risk involved? That's just asking for them to develop agoraphobia or the like

God saying women are the weaker vessel is not something uncontestable, because God inspired doesn't mean the human fallibility is gone or that there isn't some bias going on in claiming God inspired you to write stuff that's demonstrably misogynist.

Women are weaker in some respects, perhaps, but to say they cannot defend themselves or cannot be expected to is buying into the notions that the bible already encourages, like with Eve being the one to deceive Adam and be tricked by the talking snake...

Honestly, a decent parent would teach their children about the value of sex in a way that doesn't reduce it to something shameful if done outside of particular boundaries. Then you wouldn't have children rushing into marriage when they have premarital sex or are caught.

 

[SnowyMacie]

How does your daughter "overcome" rapists when you allow her to go to a house party? She will drink that drink. That drink will be drugged. And she will be taken upstairs.

I think you've read too many stories. House parties are not orgies or rape circles, there is absolutely no reason to assume it will happen. It is something that she should be careful, absolutely, but is not something that will happen.

You have no choice but to teach your daughter to avoid dangerous situations. Use common sense.Right?

Here's common sense:
1) Don't accept a drink from someone you don't know or someone you don't trust
2) Always keep an eye on your drink. If you need to leave it cover it or leave it with someone you trust

Explain what you think this means: 1 Peter 3:7

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

God said women are the weaker vessel. How do you explain this?

Peter is wrong, you even say so yourself in your very same post when you write "on average women are weaker".

I am not saying they are worth smaller or less than men. And not all women needs protection, as I said there are indeed strong women. But on average women are weaker.

Women really only naturally seem to be weaker physically, mathematically, and in spacial recognition.

I do not mind if my wife had premarital sex before she met me. I forgive her. But when I have a child, I will try to prevent him/her from having premarital sex. Any decent Christian parent would do that.

That's the thing, you don't need to forgive her for anything. Her virginity was and is not yours to take, and in no way belongs to you in any way whatsoever. That goes the same for you, it is not hers to take nor in any way belongs to her.

 

[Goodbook]

I was reading this self-published memoir of this girl who ran away from home to become a model. Her mum was a teacher, divorced, she had a sister and an alcoholic dad.

She got a scholarship to go to uni through running but, ended up modelling because of her desire for attention she never got from her dad. She got it from photographers instead. Even if it meant taking off her clothes.

 

[Cearbhall]

I am saying that teenager girls needs to be careful. This is not about having fun or freedom. Teenage girls must listen to their father in these things. Else it is so easy to take advantage of teenager girls.

Teenage boys can afford to be a bit rebellious. I know it is unfair but look at just this one example. Boys can get very drunk at a house party, and still the chance of them getting raped is almost zero.

Teenage girls cannot afford to be rebellious. I am sorry. The world is not fair. If they get that drunk at a house party, and if a rapists is present, the teenager girls might get raped.

It's up to each person what degree of risk they want to take. Maybe not a teenager, who is a minor. But an adult, certainly. You, for example, would be safest living in a panic room and working over the Internet, correct? But you don't do that (I assume). You think that living your life is worth the risk of getting in a car crash, getting food poisoning, etc. I personally have decided that having fun at bars and parties with my friends is worth the risk.

 

[Goodbook]

I doubt that this model girls dad would pick up her memoir and read it since he was so out of it, and start caring for his own daughter. Its really sad, shes fatherless.

Its not just fatherless boys that grow up disadvantaged, its fatherless girls too.
They are more likely to seek attention from the wrong people and get into unhealthy relationships, because their dads just dont care or are absent and their mothers can be jealous if they are pretty.

Btw my friend, she was a part time model as well.

 

[Swan7]

They are more likely to seek attention from the wrong people and get into unhealthy relationships, because their dads just dont care or are absent

I grew up with that, and I had to learn the hard way, unfortunately. In the end, it's a two way street. To obey or not to obey, for me, and as for the other, to do bad things or not to do bad things. The rule applies to both to which road one chooses to take.

 

[Goodbook]

I had this other workmate who's dad left her when she was little, and she was living with this bf who its seemed like she was his mother - she had to look after HIM like he was a boy instead of being in an equal man-woman relationship. Well when she got pregnant he wasn't going to stick around. He took off, just like her dad.

With my friend who went missing, her former bf was younger than her. She was the one who called the shots. I think many girls do that, end up with immature boys as they can control the direction of the relationship. But in the end, boys resent being looked after by their gfs. They never learn to grow up.
Girls mature faster which is why in many marriages to be equal your husband is ideally a few years older. But then again...I just think of a celeb marriage like Rachel Hunter and Rod Stewart, in which he was like older than her dad. Thats not going to work either, but then some men never really grow up. Apparently she divorced him cos he was obsessed with toy trains.

People often divorce for the stupidest reasons and don't really think on how it affects the children. If you can't bear to be in the same room why don't you just have separate bedrooms yet still be married. I don't know. if its adultery then yea thats betrayal, but anything else can be sorted I reckon.

 

[CCHIPSS]

Peter is wrong, you even say so yourself in your very same post when you write "on average women are weaker".

I would consider myself a liberal and quite open minded. That things in the bible often cannot be taken literally and at face value. I am quite open to interpretations. That's why while some conservatives will say all women are weaker than men, I say that on average women are weaker than men.

But for you, a Christian, to say Peter was flat out wrong is quite shocking. Since every word in the bible is inspired by God and worthy for teaching. (2 Timothy 3:16)

As liberal as I am, I would never flat out say that God is wrong. If I do so, I would no longer be preaching the truth of God. I would be preaching my self created religion. I would be making a cult. Then Satan would deceive me in everything.

If I start going down this path, then every single parts in the bible that I don't agree with can be written off as God's mistake. And before long, God isn't all the powerful anymore. Because God is not always right.

Satan leads believers away from their faith one step at a time. First they doubt the word of God. Then they doubt God. Then God doesn't even exist. Then they hate Christians for being so stupid to even believe in this garbage.

We either stand for God's truth, or we stand for Satan's lies.

We are much better off saying we don't understand some parts of the bible, than saying God is wrong.

Women really only naturally seem to be weaker physically, mathematically, and in spacial recognition.

This part will only apply to Christians. It is meaningless to any non-believers.

I will say it again. When it comes to men vs women, it is not about the things we see physically. Women are weaker in the spiritual battle against Satan. They are more easily deceived. When Satan tempted men, why did Satan went after the women first? Because women are easier to deceive.

Right after Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, she was much smarter than Adam. She knows good and evil, while Adam didn't have a clue. By all earthly definition, she was "better" than Adam.

But did that wisdom help her at all? Nope. She "man-slaughtered" her own husband, perhaps unintentionally, by telling him to eat the fruit also. We don't know what was actually in her head. But wisdom often leads us to do very foolish things and come to very foolish conclusions.

Once again I am liberal. So I think women can teach men. But women must be extra careful when they are teaching. And men must be extra careful when they listen.

I know I mentioned a lot about rapes and stuff. But at the core of it, men are commended to protect women against Satan's spiritual corruption. And I am not saying here that women sin more than men. Spiritual corruption here means not even following the one true God. This means adding new things to the bible or taking away things from the bible, so they form their own new religion. They find reasons to hate the true God, hate others that disagree and hate themselves when they don't measure up. Sins are not even consider sins anymore, but instead are preached as righteousness. And righteousness are not even considered good anymore, but instead preached as evil. So evil becomes good and good becomes evil.

Men should show women the unconditional love of Jesus. And women should submit to men in spiritual matters (not lawyer-ing, doctoring, piloting, etc) when it is even just slightly fair to do so.

Yes there are plenty of exceptions. Lots and lots of exceptions. We are in a fallen and sinful world. There are plenty of abuses of power. And it is shame on these churches that attack the victim and instead defend the villain. Another very simple example is the huge number of Christian ladies married to non-believing husbands. Obviously here the Christian wife must "lead" her husband in spiritual things. So perhaps we are once again talking about "on average" here. But the law of God must be followed to the best of our abilities.

When your wisdom tells you that God is wrong, fight it and insist that God is right. Trust and obey God. At the minimum, say you don't know what God meant there and refuse to give an opinion. Else Satan already has you in his trap.

That's the thing, you don't need to forgive her for anything. Her virginity was and is not yours to take, and in no way belongs to you in any way whatsoever. That goes the same for you, it is not hers to take nor in any way belongs to her.

Are you trying to deny the existence that pain (your GF/BF telling you about their past sexual experiences)? Are you trying to say that pain doesn't exist?

I cannot tell you that pain exist for you. I am not you.

But that pain exist for me. And that pain exist for many others. And it is not fair for you to say this pain doesn't exist for us. Especially true if you (for some reason) do not feel that pain.

Now for those of us that feels that pain, I say we totally forgive and forget. In fact tell your BF/GF that you don't feel hurt at all. And never bring this topic up again. Why make them more guilty? But to lie to ourselves that pain doesn't even exist at all? That is not healthy.