Sodom and Gomorrah

MariaIsabella

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Um, I like Rock and Roll, Pop and Dance music but I wouldn't say I worship it or any of the stars. I could care less about the personal lives of any music star, I don't even go to concerts or want to. I don't drink alcohol, drink caffeine, do drugs, smoke cigarettes or have sex so I don't think that music makes people do bad things nor worship false idols, that's a personal choice. Yes, some music sensations do promote rape or commit serious felonies but that doesn't mean we're all going down a bad path, just those individuals. Also, the end times already came about in the 1st century AD so no there's not some demonic or sinful thing going on.
 
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Goodbook

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And why is it I find it ironic that churches seem to work on a similar principle, even if it's more a cult of personality to the preacher who stands on a pulpit above the lesser masses who they speak the good news to and such?
Because many wolves have entered the church in sheeps clothing. If you church has become like this, a performance and theatre rather than preisthood of believers, then youd be wise to leave and find fellowship elsewhere.
 
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Goodbook

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Um, I like Rock and Roll, Pop and Dance music but I wouldn't say I worship it or any of the stars. I could care less about the personal lives of any music star, I don't even go to concerts or want to. I don't drink alcohol, drink caffeine, do drugs, smoke cigarettes or have sex so I don't think that music makes people do bad things nor worship false idols, that's a personal choice. Yes, some music sensations do promote rape or commit serious felonies but that doesn't mean we're all going down a bad path, just those individuals. Also, the end times already came about in the 1st century AD so no there's not some demonic or sinful thing going on.
Never said everyone was. But where theres smoke theres fire. Bible days not to touch the unclean thing and come out of her lest you recieve her plagues. i think it takes more temperance ie. Self control than most people have to ignore and say no...you can only do this if you walking in the spirit and not the flesh.

Many people walk in the flesh assuming that nothing can hurt them since they under grace. Then they cause others to stumble who are weaker ...for example, why would you smoke around children. Yes its a choice that everyone makes but nobody CHOOSES to breathe your secondhand smoke.
 
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Goodbook

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Submission in itself is not abusive, yet encouraging submission when it isn't necessary could be easily construed and argued to be abusive anyway. Not all women are submissive by nature, nor should they be.

My mother is the breadwinner and arguably an equal to my father in the household I was raised in. He provided for us when she was the stay at home mother, of course, but that doesn't mean she was content to just stay and home and waste away and not use her "God given" potential to better the world. To say my mother is going against God's plan is insulting, especially when my family, myself excluded obviously, is quite faithful Christians, though I can see people easily tearing them down because of various reason (they don't go to church, for example, they just seem to pay lip service)

How about a relationship where the two people involved are basically equals even if they have different capacities? AS in, the woman is not submissive to man entirely, because, arguably, the man can submit to women's judgment in spite of the persistent myth that women shouldn't educate men in any way, which is patently false, considering most of the best teachers I've had in my life are women, as well as some of the smartest people I know

And what would you know about a woman's happiness as a man? Also, this dichotomy you create is nonsensical: a relationship is not founded on dominance, it's founded on mutual respect. My parents can argue, but they nonetheless respect each other and acknowledge their faults and their skills, they complement each other in that sense. My mother doesn't overpower my father and my father doesn't overpower my mother, they are a pair, they are an equal union. No relationship worth having is based on one submitting to the other in a sense that isn't mutual and informed by basic logic of human dynamics, which don't involve a pure one sided relationship of power.

Seems to me you have a skewed notion of what a woman should do in a relationship, rather than having some humility and possibly acknowledging that woman can also teach you things.
Chips is christian you arent, so you arguing two different things. When a chirstian wife submits to a christian husband its because the christian husband is loving his christian wife, the way Jesus gave his life to the church.
 
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Cearbhall

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My mother is the breadwinner and arguably an equal to my father in the household I was raised in. He provided for us when she was the stay at home mother, of course, but that doesn't mean she was content to just stay and home and waste away and not use her "God given" potential to better the world. To say my mother is going against God's plan is insulting, especially when my family, myself excluded obviously, is quite faithful Christians
I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's not a very popular Christian belief anymore in the First World. Nor is it practical. I was taught egalitarianism. Those people are just following a particularly conservative interpretation.
 
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muichimotsu

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I wasn't really taught such things in terms of gender relations myself, it's more that it's common sense that even people from 2 generations ago can reasonably understand with some humility. Times have changed, as the saying goes.
 
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muichimotsu

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Chips is christian you arent, so you arguing two different things. When a chirstian wife submits to a christian husband its because the christian husband is loving his christian wife, the way Jesus gave his life to the church.
Spin it however you want, it's a narrative that creates misogyny and an undue respect for men, as if they can do no wrong to their wives as long as they posture it as being a good husband. That's how you enable abuse.
 
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muichimotsu

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Because many wolves have entered the church in sheeps clothing. If you church has become like this, a performance and theatre rather than preisthood of believers, then youd be wise to leave and find fellowship elsewhere.
And you neglected to check that I wasn't Christian? Churches I grew up in were probably fine, all things considered, though it's always easier for people to find what's wrong than to have constructive criticism and see if the church can be better. That free market method seems to just create more splinter churches and then you have more fragmented communities, barely united by anything except insular identities, "us versus them" mentalities
 
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muichimotsu

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Right. I've never heard of a scientific basis for my supposed naturally submissive nature, nor have I felt it, so I'm inclined to believe it doesn't exist.
People can be submissive to some extent or aggressive, but it's like extroversion and introversion in psychology: they're preferences, but we're generally expected to be able to express them both to some degree as a functioning human being. I'm not usually one to initiate something, but that doesn't mean I should resign myself to never doing so.
 
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Goodbook

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Whatever. If you on a christian forum i would think you would be unless you say otherwise or just obviously show you arent. Sorry.

You dont really have a right to comment if you not part of the church then. You dont belong so why would you think you can make it better? Christians dont try to reform buddhism, so why would buddhists want to reform christians? Its a spiritual matter obeying the Lord, not the things we do in the flesh. If you dont know the Lord then you wouldnt understand what it means to submit to Him.
 
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Cearbhall

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People can be submissive to some extent or aggressive, but it's like extroversion and introversion in psychology: they're preferences, but we're generally expected to be able to express them both to some degree as a functioning human being. I'm not usually one to initiate something, but that doesn't mean I should resign myself to never doing so.
That's an interesting perspective. I actually consider myself to be high in restraint and self-control. I personally wouldn't associate that with submission.
 
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Swan7

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Submission in itself is not abusive, yet encouraging submission when it isn't necessary could be easily construed and argued to be abusive anyway. Not all women are submissive by nature, nor should they be.

Need I remind, of course gently, that this is a Christian Forum site and this post is not Biblical. Please know that there is a huge difference in a worldly submission vs what the Bible states as submission. Opinions are welcome of course, I'm only stating that there is a big difference in the word.
 
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Cearbhall

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Whatever. If you on a christian forum i would think you would be unless you say otherwise or just obviously show you arent. Sorry.

You dont really have a right to comment if you not part of the church then.
Who are you talking to? You didn't quote anyone.
That says eventually approaching, I believe we are there.
So has every generation before you.
I would love to study the psychological or evolutionary origin of the erroneous theory of moral decline. It seems to have deep, inescapable roots in the human psyche, considering that it goes back to the beginning of recorded history.
 
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Sir Robbins

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I grew up in the hair metal days, I understand this kind of stuff. ;)

I despised that kind of metal. Made a mockery of what I called metal.

In reference to the OP's thread title, my definition of metal and your title flows with this song. If you know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the lyrics will make sense. Be prepared, this song will rip your face off. Classic 80s thrash metal and they are in NO WAY a Christian metal band lol
 
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Cearbhall

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Need I remind, of course gently, that this is a Christian Forum site and this post is not Biblical. Please know that there is a huge difference in a worldly submission vs what the Bible states as submission. Opinions are welcome of course, I'm only stating that there is a big difference in the word.
Biblical and Christian aren't synonymous, though...
 
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tatteredsoul

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We like to think we're different, but we're really not, we just have different technologies and toys.

Yea, they had different (read: more advanced) tech back then, and the name of the gods were just different.

Same worship, different conduit(s)
 
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ViaCrucis

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Eventually one of the generations will be right and maybe it will be mine.

Is that really a good way to be thinking, that if we yell "wolf" all the time, eventually there will be a wolf and we can say, "Ah, I was right!"

The Lord teaches us not to concern ourselves with wars, rumors of wars, for these are only birth pangs; to not believe it when people say, "Over here!" and "Over there!". Christ gives us two parables, one of the ten virgins and the other of the talents, the message is that we ought to be faithful and vigilant. The one who says, "Over there!" is not being vigilant, but is like the servant who went and buried his talent in the ground until his master returned--the faithful servant would have invested his talent and made something of it. So are we, as servants of the Lord, called to be faithful, not obsessed about what tomorrow might bring, but here and now concerned for our neighbor, preaching the Gospel, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked.

A story, almost certainly apocryphal, has Martin Luther asked what he would do if he knew, absolutely, the Lord would return tomorrow; to which he responds, "I would plant a tree." While the story didn't happen, it does speak to a vitally important point: we are to live our lives right now, in the present--when Christ returns no one can possibly know, and when He does there will be no warning, but as a thief in the night; when He comes in glory to judge the world it will be as in the time of Noah, people going about their lives as usual, then the flood came. We have no means to know the day or the hour, and it isn't our business to know or to speculate, Christ says after His resurrection, "It is not yours to know the times and seasons which the Father has established by His own authority." (Acts 1:7)

So instead of saying tomorrow is the end of the world, let's instead do as a Christian ought and love our neighbor. There are mouths to feed, bodies to clothe, and suffering people to comfort--and if we ignore them then we have a lot to answer for when He does come.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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