Sodom and Gomorrah

[Evee]

What were their sins to cause God to destroy the cities?

 

[pro_odeh]

Look at how socioty is today, and you have your answer!
God bless!

 

[Trizm]

^^good answer
Look in the old testament as well and look to see why wiped most of the living beings (Noahs Ark)

Its because of the way sex was and today is being perverted

 

[Evee]

I believe as you both do but a friend thinks it was the sin of disobedience.
I suppose in a sense it was.

 

[Freodin]

They didn´t eat their vegetables.

Seriously, the explicit sin is unknown, just as it is not known what "wicked" behaviour made God flood the earth.

One might conclude that these sins were in some way related to the behaviour that the inhabitants of Sodom showed towards the messengers of God, but that is just an unbased unclusion.

And it does say nothing at all about Gomorrah.

So you are free to assume anything you don´t like.

 

[Evee]

JUD 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Maybe it is sexual sins.
Sounds as if it is.

 

[Freodin]

JUD 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Maybe it is sexual sins.
Sounds as if it is.

Ah, yes, I forgot the magical powers of Biblical authors.

Perhaps that is the reason why the world is so immoral today - the people don´t use their magical answering machine any more - they use the internet.

Now, seriously, who do you think this Judas was, that he was informed about the reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you think he was in any way different from people like pro_odeh - looking at something he didn´t like and making an assumption?

 

[pro_odeh]

Ah, yes, I forgot the magical powers of Biblical authors.

Perhaps that is the reason why the world is so immoral today - the people don´t use their magical answering machine any more - they use the internet.

Now, seriously, who do you think this Judas was, that he was informed about the reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you think he was in any way different from people like pro_odeh - looking at something he didn´t like and making an assumption?

Genesis 19;5
They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Actually the situation in Sodom was a bit worse than it is today. In the following verses Lot tells the men that they can have his daughters instead, but they only wanted to sleep with the men.
Of course there were a lot other sins committed.. grievous sins as the Bible puts it. but The Bible does not mention any other spesific sins except this.
But todays society is getting dangerously close to how it was in those times..
God bless!

 

[Freodin]

Genesis 19;5
They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Actually the situation in Sodom was a bit worse than it is today. In the following verses Lot tells the men that they can have his daughters instead, but they only wanted to sleep with the men.
Of course there were a lot other sins committed.. grievous sins as the Bible puts it. but The Bible does not mention any other spesific sins except this.
But todays society is getting dangerously close to how it was in those times..
God bless!

As I said - assumtions, based on a possible conclusion, and personal opinions.

It is soooo easy to point to "unspecific sins" when lamenting about the current situation - especially if you don´t plan to do anything about it.

 

[pro_odeh]

As I said - assumtions, based on a possible conclusion, and personal opinions.

It is soooo easy to point to "unspecific sins" when lamenting about the current situation - especially if you don´t plan to do anything about it.

All sins are committed all the time. What was wrong in these two sities was that it was exceptable by everyone! nobody thought of it as wrong, everything was allowed. They even wanted to sleep with angels!! doesnt that tell you anything?
I mean, someone tried to break into this mans house and rape his guests! not just a few people, but all the men! they ignored his daughters, they just wanted to try out these 'strangers'. To escape they had to blind everyone.

Dont you see the unmoral here? now you can imagine the rest. All the sins possible of committing, acceptable to all. that is how it was. Taking forth this example just shows how bad it was on one area. If it was this bad here, it had to be just as bad elsewhere!
by my opinion society today is headed straight in the same direction...

By the way, what do you mean by plan to do anything about it? just curious..
God bless!

 

[Neenie]

Maybe it is sexual sins.
Sounds as if it is.

It wasn't just all sexual sin. Greed played a big role too...

Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

 

[Evee]

By the way, what do you mean by plan to do anything about it? just curious..
God bless







Yes all we can do is stand up for what we believe to be right and maybe we can make a difference.

 

[Evee]

It wasn't just all sexual sin. Greed played a big role too...

Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Thank you I had never read that I don't believe, or at least it didn't sink in.

 

[Norea]

The irony is more than likely what got the two cities in question was a volcano erupting and not some super-beings getting mad at them.

Also this issue of morality yet again hasn't been fully explained. To me morality is an interplay between persons not an interplay being persons plus a super-being. Humans deal with human affairs not super-being affairs. The context of the situation was actually more about being good hosts than about being sex fiends. Their utter disregard of their guests, the super-beings, was the sin not the intent of sexual favours. Remember, most of the world was a hostile environment to strangers. And to be a poor host could invite war if the strangers were part of a tribe stronger than yours. But back to the issue of morality, morality must have context, and if we took what we 'see' with the two cities in question, only the act of rape was committed, sodomy itself isn't a sin because sin is an word added to nullify the true meaning of morality. It makes certain actions beyond morality and almost an counter-action toward rational thought in so much that we cannot be allowed to think of what is moral and immoral.

Essentially my argument is based on the idea that all humans are rational beings and thus their moral systems are objective, to call man-on-man-pokery a sin or immorality is irrational. But calling rape is rational. Calling free choice a sin is a damnation of human faculties and of Nature itself. All in all, Christiandom has yet to answer why reason is so bad and why morality must be made by a super-being rather than being part of a natural context.


-- Bridget

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Please allow me to add an orthodox Jewish point-of-view:

While our Sages certainly do not downplay either the attempted homosexual gang-rape of Lot's angelic visitors (the people of Sodom could hardly have known that they were angels) or the Torah's ban on homosexual acts (the Torah does not refer to "homosexuality" per se at all; the wording of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 is very precise - it is homosexual ACTS which are a banned abomination) most of our Sages agree that the "sin of Sodom" was a combination of extreme stinginess, inhospitality and uncharitableness; our Sages cite Ezekiel 16:49 ("Behold, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and careless ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy") in this regard.

Note the sequence of the text. We find out about God's cognizance of the "sin of Sodom and Gomorrah" in Genesis 18:20, BEFORE the attempted gang-rape in Genesis 19:5. Abraham seems to understand right away, in Genesis 18:23, that God intends to destroy Sodom & Gomorrah.

Note the precise wording of Genesis 18:21. The KJV says: "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto Me..." The translation, "...the cry of it..." is wrong. The original Hebrew says, ha-k'tza'akata, which literally means, "...the cry of HER..." (Biblical & Modern Hebrew grammar says that when no antecedent is specified, the gender-neutral 'it' should be rendered in the masculine. According to this rule, the word should be ha-k'tza'akato but it is not, it is ha-k'tza'akata, which, as I pointed out, literally means, "...the cry of her..." Our Sages comment on this and relate the tradition that a young woman of Sodom showed kindness to a homeless stranger who had wandered in to town & offered him food & drink. Such hospitable & charitable behavior was, so our Sages relate, against the law in Sodom. This young woman was, according to our tradition, stripped naked, smeared with honey & bound to a stake next to a beehive, in the burning sun, to die a gruesome death. It was HER cry that rose up to God & was the straw that "broke the camel's back" vis-a-vis Sodom. (If we get caught up in a debate over whether such a tale should be taken literally, we are missing the point. The point of this rabbinical tradition is not whether it should be taken literally or not, but the moral it teaches & the principle it illustrates.)


Be well!


ssv

 

[Dukey]

What were their sins to cause God to destroy the cities?

they committed sexual sins

 

[gee]

Thanx for your view of Genesis 18:23. I can't comment on the woman and the bee tradition but I think that it would be more than just the cry of her (that woman). I'm not saying your view is wrong at all. It's very interesting, just that there could be more.

We know from when Abraham spoke with the Lord that there were very few righteous people in Sodom. In fact only 4 people survived (Lot, his wife and 2 daughters).

2 Peter 2:7 Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)

From the above verses we know that Lot was righteous. I'm sure that he cried out to the Lord when he saw what was happening around him.

And then didn't the ground itself cry out to God in the sense of...

Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. (NIV)

Job 31:38 [Job says] "if my land cries out against me and all its furrows are wet with tears... (NIV)

And that even the earth needs it's "rest"... (Leviticus 25:2)

So it is possible that there was one more righteous person in Sodom - the young woman, but just going on my Bible I would have to say that the above was also true.

Other verses in addition to the other posts...

Jeremiah 23:14 And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no-one turns from his wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah." (NIV)

We also know that Jesus said of Capernaum...

Matthew 11:23...If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. (NIV)

This is a warning for people today against the sin of Capernaum - that of unbelief and unrepentance, and rejecting Jesus, therefore rejecting God, the Father...

Luke 10:15 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (NIV)

Still, Sodom was also completely corrupt and rife with homosexuality too which was also part of why it was destroyed. This is also where we get the term "Sodomy" from.

 

[Evee]

Yes stinginess homosexuality attempted rape.... I believe it was a thriving place full of wickedness in the whole cities.
Of course to prosper is not wrong it was they were unwilling to think of anyone but themself.

 

[Evee]

Genesis 19:23 KJV

"The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. (24)Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; (25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. (26) But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."




So Lot's wife did not survive she turned into a pillar of salt.


Does anyone believe this is a true story and it really happened?
Or it is just an example to show how we should live?
It named many sins including attempted rape.
Does anyone believe like stillsmallvoice?

 

[gee]

Yes, sorry - should have said Lot's wife was one who had the opportunity to leave and survive. She chose to linger behind Lot when they were escaping, with her heart still in Sodom. Therefore the judgement overtook her and she turned into salt as did the rest of Sodom.

Yes I believe it really happened and not just an example.

For one thing, if it was just an example, where did it start and stop? Was it just a story when Abraham was talking with the Lord about "If there were just 50 righteous ..... etc"? And why did Lot flee Sodom - is it just still part of the story that Lot escaped with his daughters to the mountains? Where does the story end if you understand me???

I also don't think that Jesus was just referring to a story when he saiid in Luke 17:29 "But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulphur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all." (NIV)

But I believe that also, as with the whole Bible, it is also an example of how we should live. I think it is also an example to us to seek God before making decisions, not just to see that the "grass is greener" somewhere (as Lot did when he and Abraham parted company) and think that must be the best path to take (Gen 13:8-12).