Right now I am so ready to throw every computer I have access to, across the room, so if I sound agitated, it's for good reason, because I am...sorry if it comes through in this post.
All of the things (goods and bads) that have been listed are all products of the system of government, not the system of economy. I realize that certian aspects of governement are tied to certain aspects of finances.
right, but since money makes the world go round, it is normally the economic system that is viewed, personally I am a constitutionalist, I believe the founding fathers had it right, and their government included free market, the economic system I find more viable.
The socialist are actually right about slavery, under a pure socialistic system, those inequalities wouldn't take place.
and yet, under socialism we still have slavery, we just don't call it such...same basic absence of liberties, just called something different.
Yeah, slavery was alleviated in a captialist society, but look at the product of those social inequalities today...
can we look at free market rather than capitalism since that is what I brought up? Under free market, the greatest strides toward equality existed, that went backwards a piece in our capitalistic society. A governent btw that is the precurser, the lead into socialism...so you got to ask the question, if the preface to socialism removes equality, what will the book (socialism) do to it?
Poor people still remained poor and they will continue to remain poor.
the bible says the poor you will always have, no matter the government? Not sure what that is suppose to tell us.
To make it ahead today, you need a college education,
news flash, one of the fastest growing segments of our population is the college graduate on government assistance. Ouch...you mean that the statistics show that college education doesn't always net a good job? Oh, not a good thing for your argument.
to get that you need money...if you don't have money to start with, the slump continues for another generation.
actually, there are lots of ways to get that money and they have existed for a long long long time in this country...you have government money, family money, loans, work, personally, I went the route of working for a company that reembirsed college money. And that is just the beginning for someone who is really motivated to go to college.
It's a cycle you can't ever get out of if the money all stays in the same place year after year.
the only reason why the money would stay in the same place year after year is if we stifle opportunities, which is exactly what socialism does....let's look at history. Throughout history people have risked everything to flee to this country, a country that offered opportunity, now note where most of them came from, they risk everything to leave the oppressions of socialist societies that stifled their opportunities to move beyond thier current economic class.
There has to be something done (like socialized post secondary eduction) to level out the playing field so that a smart, ambitious 18 year old doesn't have to end up on welfare just because his parents didn't have 20k to send them to college...while the kid born into the rich family goes to the best school without having to work for it, then gets a job based on his rich parents' connections to the business world.
honestly this sounds like class envy of which we all know that envy is not a biblical concept. So let me ask you this, do you really think that any form of human government can make everyone in the society rich?
What if, instead, every good little socialist out there, used their money and instead of giving that money to the government, gave it to that18 year old wanting to get to school, or what if instead of giving your money to the government, you gave it to the food kitchens that actually feed the poor not pretend to. While we're at it, why not make the playing field even more even by you going to a father in your community who is desperately trying to feed his family on retail wages and get him into a good paying job in your firm...that way it isn't just the rich kid who wants to go to school, but it is also the job he will get later by the connections of their parents that is being evenly distributed? Point is, if your idealisms were actually put to use, the government wouldn't need to do any of those things you want done, and we would not only be able to end this dispute, but be able to proclaim that we did it through biblical principals rather than worldly ones.
Oh, and while we're on the topic, do you know what the bible calls rich? It is those who have enough to meet the daily needs of their families...puts a whole new perspective on government when we see it through biblical eyes doesn't it?
If you don't acknowledge that our current implementation of capitalism is structured so that it's nearly impossible to cross the class lines, you're in denial.
Capitalism sure, and adding to the problem of the poor moving up in class is the socialism we have built into the capitalism....in fact, capitalism is the precurser, the preface to socialism, if capitalism makes things so difficult for the poor, you got to wonder how badly the book will be on them. Capitalism, the capitalism you admit here destroys opportunities to cross class lines, is the first step toward socialism, what then does that say about what socialism will do to the poor?
The system needs to be based on merit. We have middle class people who work a lot harder than most of the upper class in this country.
do you have any clue how hard the poor all over the world actually work? And for what? so that what they make can be taken, manipulated, and stolen by the government that promises them relief....ask the poor what will help them, it isn't handouts or food they will ask for, but opportunities.
...it's all based on how much money an individual's parents have, not the individual...and that's wrong.
and yet under free market it was common for people from poor families to become wealthy and people from wealthy families to become poor. Talk about an even playing field, that is it. When wealth can be gained or lost on merit, and not on government policies or laws restricting those monies, you have an even playing field...
Let's take capitalism that turns into socialism...under capitalism we see laws that cator to the corporations coming into the forfront, which makes competition by the individual hard to impossible. We stop allowing the market to determine who succeeds and who fails and start allowing the government to allow it's greed to dictate economic outcome...which moves into socialism, the basic premise of socialism is that the good of the collective is what rules, it is government ownership...where then is competition? Where is the opportunity to work hard and earn a living? The government doesn't care about the individual only the collective...how many individuals are sacrificed on the socialist agenda alter so that those with the power and money can maintain thier power by keeping a few happy and content and allowing the rest to be destroyed.
Oh, but that isn't how it works is the usual response, it helps the poor, only when we review the math, the practise, the history, the principals, we see that it doesn't work the way the ideology suggests it should...so what should we do, insist the ideology will prevail, or heed the warnings of those who have gone before us and tried it?
