Socialism vs. Capitalism

[kayfy]

I was kind of disappointed when I joined this forum that there isn't a "socialist" option on the political party section. I identify myself 100% as a member of the Socialist Party USA.

 

[TheReasoner]

I was kind of disappointed when I joined this forum that there isn't a "socialist" option on the political party section. I identify myself 100% as a member of the Socialist Party USA.

I have requested the rose in fist - the symbol for social democracy. But they have not added it :-( you should request the socialist party logo. I'd be happy to support the request! Maybe you'll have more luck with a party request than I have had with my more general ideology request.

 

[sword_of_truth]

Both socialism and capitalism are two sides of the same coin to make you feel like you actually have a choice. You don't. Either way you're getting government bought and paid for by the corporate elite. The New World Order. It's called the false left/right paradigm. Labor/Liberal, republican/democrat you get the same thing in the end. The only true and authentic governance is the Kingdom of God. google "false left right paradigm"

 

[ChildOfGod97]

There really is no such thing as "capitalism". The concept of "capitalism" is a word men have used to describe free market systems. It is usually used politically to denigrate free market systems.

"Socialism" is used as another term to pretend there is some other system then free market systems. There is no competition.

"Socialism" has eroded from the concepts of Jewish-Christian communities of the first century into atheist political systems based around control, tyranny.

Communism is such a product of this perversion.


The first century church did have a sort of commune style living, but this does not mean people were opposed to free markets and the right to trade in the streets or within the community.


That was the initial church. We know, for instance, Paul was a man of trade, a tent maker, and that generally the way of life was of people who lived in the world but were not of the world.


Communists are against free market systems because they want controlled economies where the elites may rule. As they condemn, so they are, just as Scripture says. And this has been proven again and again through Communist systems.


Providing social services is not evil for a government, though the Church is not unioned with the Government. We have seen what happens when this happens with the Dark Ages. It has been evil.

What we turned to, instead, was embracing freedom, liberty. In this way government would ensure rights for Christians to believe as they wish.



Communists have argued against "capitalism" - against, really, free markets - claiming that freedom is intrinsically evil for well over a century now. But they have shown their true colors.

Many are swayed by this sort of argument because of their own secret desires of the flesh, out of envy for what the wealthy have, and out of greed.


Like Judas, they say of money, "but this could be used for the poor", which is a lie, and a cover, an excuse to hide his own greed.


Do not be fooled. Do not envy. Do not want what others have.


Do not think God does not see the thoughts of your heart. God does.

We are not judged by how we persuade men, but by what we think in secret, whisper in secret, what is in our hearts. And be sure: what is whispered in the secret of your heart will be shouted from the rooftop to the shame of the guilty.

 

[TheBibleDude]

I don't think that the SYSTEM of capitalism is bad, but the people who take advantage for selfish gain is where it could be broken. The same holds true in a socialist society. Those who 'distribute' can easily use their power to distribute a little extra to themselves and others.

 

[newsomewayne]

But those who worked through the day were not penalized. They got what they agreed to. That should not be described as being penalized.

The parable also doesn't fit the situation being described. Socialism in this parable isn't the owner deciding everyone gets paid equally, because the all-day workers did recieve what was promised them. Socialism in this case would be if the owner has 20 denari to pay his workers for the day, and he hires 10 workers at one denari a piece. Later he hires 10 more workers. Later 10 more, and even later he hires 10 more. At the end of the day, he gives them each 1/2 denari so that they all have the same amount <sarcasm> because "even" is the only definition of "fair"</sarcasm>. In essence, he takes from those who work the hardest and gives (i.e. forces the hard workers to give) to those who work the least. That is socialism.

 

[Ave Maria]

Between the two options, I would choose capitalism as being the more moral one. The Church has condemned socialism repeatedly.

 

[newsomewayne]

And all very much sanctioned in scripture for the [blur]government [/blur]church, as well.

There, fixed that for you.

 

[DesertJoe]

The sad fact is that socialism has been tried & has failed in the United States of America.From the New Deal which extended the national depression from 1929 until (technically) 1950,when the rest of the world had recovered by no later than 1933Through Johnson's new society,until now.I am not an advocate of greed,whether it is the open greed of unfettered capitalism,or the hidden greed of politicians desiring to enrich themselves & increase their own power through socialism.There are liars on both sides of the debate,& there are the gullible who believe the lies on both sides of the debate.If mankind practiced on a personal level,"You shall love your neighbor as yourself",there would be no need for much government at all.No matter the poison you pick,be it capitalism or socialism,plutocracy or anarchy,things will continue downhill until Jesus returns.The time you waste in debate & political activity could be better used getting to know Jesus through prayer,through His word,& through personally loving your neighbor as yourself.No government will ever make the world a better place.With the record of thousands of years of man's futile attempts to govern himself,it would be insanity to believe otherwise.

 

[DoctorJosh]

Which do you think is better? Which is moral? Do you believe that Christ supports one or the other?

I am a Christian Socialist, so I believe in socialism. I see capitalism as cruel and unjust. I also believe that the Bible supports socialism.

Acts 2:44-45:

Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

Acts 4:32-35:

Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

Wow, this is a no brainer. First, if you know socialism and not go by what Obama is telling you what socialism is, then you would choose the best option for Freedom. So far under the categories you list, Capitalism is best. However, a Democracy is the best choice yet. Now why is this? For one, socialism is to define a population depending on a Government for everything. (Even their religion will be chosen by the Government). A few good examples of socialists are Stalin, Hitler, and England. The USSR means the United Socialist Soviet Republic, but every Russian that lived during those years of the USSR will tell you it was a living hell. Waiting in food lines, no jobs and if you found a job you were working for the Government, any religion that teaches freedom was banned, books were burned, ethnic cleansing was common, and Freedom was non existent. Are you sure you are a socialist Christian? Perhaps you desire to have your Bibles burned and you have to wait in food lines for your food? Why do you think Russia and Germany fell? England survived and is still a socialist state, but although the Royal family has only half as much value today, it is still a socialist state. Cameras on every street corner, no privacy, law after law about what you can and cannot do, and just all around it is becoming the next Nazi Germany really fast. Canada and Australia are under England's rule, but since they have parliament they are able to sustain some more freedom rights than in England. However, they cannot own firearms to defend themselves (no pistols allowed). During the first world war there were three socialist countries that fell. Germany, Austria, and Russia. Russia had a civil war during the war which destroyed their monarchy, but instead they got another socialist leadership. Germany was on the verge of a civil war and so was Austria. The Czar and his family in Russia were killed by the mobs of people, same in Austria, the German Emperor fled to Holland. So what does this tell you about socialism? It is only for those in power, not for the people. Don't let the world socialist fool you, it does not mean for the people, it means the people under the Government who obey the Government or else. Right now, at least in a Democracy (which means corporation) you still have more freedoms than under any socialism. Now the more freedom the better and as long as there is a Constitution that prevents any President from becoming dictator, that is the best we can ask for. So don't say the Bible supports socialism. Moses led the people out of socialism and into Freedom. Now what is your choice again? I think this thread should be corrected to include only, do you want Freedom or be a slave?

 

[Johnnz]

Capitalism is not the opposite of socialism. Except for the far left communist regimes, now virtually extinct, western socialist counties accept a private economy of some type. To the far left you get state domination, a denial of individual choice. To the far right you have fascism, also a denial of individual choice.

The real issues are not those labels, but the degree of personal freedoms vs collective responsibility within a country's political system. And, the ignored component of a public morality where things such as greed, humility, the common good and devolution of personal power become fashionable.

John
NZ

 

[simon reyburn]

i think that it really comes down to what system will help the poor feed the hungry and cloth the naked. now the capalist system like we have now dose not really do this and the other option socialism has not worked in the past so what do we do?. we work out a system were the rights of the indervaual are keept (so if you work hard you have nice things ect) but also the poor are looked after meaning that they have food and health care ect. what we need is an system that gives everyone everything that they need but also makes sure that thos who work hard are still able to have nice things.

for exsample a poor person and a rich person would be given everything that they need food, water, health care, homes ect but the rich can still have all thos material things that they have now. i belive that this would repersent what god wants his people would do.

people need to work (the bible says that if you do not work you do not work) but it is not our job to juge if a person is working "hard engough" infact there are people with out "jobs" but work in their communtity i think that they deseve to have what they need.

rember that god says that we are to help the poor and he calls us to do this. in Acts it even says that the belivers "had all things in comman" so if thats how the belivers lived thats how god wants everyone to live (god dosent have two rules for the followers and non followers because god is absoute). when the bible says they had all things in comman that means that they all help out everyone so people had what they needed and that the system that god wants us to live in i belive. we are greedy and we want stuff and who cares about the people around you but god tells us that we have to love the people around us.

 

[salida]

A socialist government redistributes the wealth and is legalized stealing. It gives wealth to those who don't earn it but are lazy.

Capitalism is what made the U.S. great not socialism that leads to communim.

 

[Colin]

I'm not really sure what the point of this poll is. There are a hundred types of capitalist and a hundred types of socialism.

I fully agree with this point .
I would regard myself as a Socialist , but then I have to go round and round in circles trying to explain what I understand as Socialism .
Just look at the contents of CF , and see how people define themselves as Christian , and you end up with a hundred or perhaps a thousand + types of Christianity .

 

[theb4ssm4ncometh]

Social Capitalism- Challenge the private sector. do not destroy it but do not let it destroy those who cannot succeed in it.

see-Sweden/Singapore/Costa Rica

 

[metal pedal]

Socialism - a way for Government to become your provider in place of God

 

[Jeronimomoulia]

The important is not how to administre a nation, it´s the global happiness of people; it depends on circunstances, so there´s not a abstract model of state valid for every nation; there´re several circunstances that make decision indefinitive.

By example, a in Spain there´s a model of health socialist, but now there´s a evolution into liberalism, due to be current system efficient, and treasury is becoming empty.

But always, in socialist or liberal system, govern must allow personal freedom and respect human rights; in Cuba or in China they punish people for seeking his own happiness.

 

[DArceri]

One heartfelt warning for Christians. THE 10TH COMMANDMENT states that thy shall not covet thy neighbors stuff.....Unfortunately, given the corrupt nature of man's heart, many Socialist liberals in the world demand that government's role should be that of 'taking' the wealth from another because it's unfair that he should be blessed with such an an abundance. But did not God give Abraham, Solomon, David, and others blessings of wealth? Is it not up to the INDIVIDUAL, and not the government, to give out of his own heart. One needs to remember that the bible clearly states that it is the heart of a 'cheerful' giver that brings glory to God......SO BE VERY CAREFUL, God judges the heart...One must ask oneself, if one votes for redistribution of someone else's wealth at the ballot box, what is your true motive and is God viewing your motives as honorable or does he look at it as a form of jeoulousy or a form of coveting someone else's success?

In regards to Capitalism vs. Socialism, did not CAPITALISM create the wealthiest poor on the planet? Last time I looked, those who are considered poor in America have cell phones, TV's, $100 tennis shoes, and look like they need to be on a diet. Maybe we should compare a Socialistic society's poor person with America's poor person and really see which form of government betters society's poor as a whole? Just remember though that the bible is clear on this, there will ALWAYS BE POOR AMONG US. No nation has the ability to eradicate all the poor and hungry in society. For the Socialist/Marxists who think that they can create a 'Utopian Society' without God, I must remind them that man 's corrupt nature will not allow it. It only leads to a Totalitarian state and the end result is always a 'Tower of Babel' built on sand.


.

 

[Avniel]

In a perfect world socialism would be the perfect government, however the world is far from perfect there for socialism will never work. Capitalism is a great system it promotes growth however its down side is it also promotes crime and corruption at local and federal levels. All politics are evil it just depends on which evil better suits a social group based on collective behavior.

 

[Johnnz]

Advocates of individualism fail to recognise the corporate nature of Christianity - family, Father, adoption, believers as a temple for example. Much of our modern emphasis on individualism is an idolatry, at variance with Scripture. The biblical message is both individual and corporate, not one or the other.

John
NZ