Socialism: second verse .. same as the first

dadmann

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All this talk about "social justice" Socialism . . . reminds me of what happened in 1978 .. Jim Jones and the 900+ people who followed him to their deaths .. Jim Jones was not a Christian .. he was a left-wing Atheist / new-age cult leader who preached another gospel called Communism .. he hated Capitalism .. he hated the Christian Church .. he loved Atheistic / Communistic Russia .. he didn't believe the Bible or in God . . . .

anyhow .. I'm just saying all that to say this . . .

here it comes again . . . seems to me all the youth are believing it .. I know that everyone (well most) believe it to various degrees . . . most the main-stream-medias believe it . . . don't forget Hollywood . . .

if anything .. I'm just giving a big shout . . .

HEADS-UP !!! ..

the second verse is same as the first




hello to my brothers and sisters in Christ

dadman
 
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Episcoboi

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All this talk about "social justice" Socialism . . . reminds me of what happened in 1978 .. Jim Jones and the 900+ people who followed him to their deaths .. Jim Jones was not a Christian .. he was a left-wing Atheist / new-age cult leader who preached another gospel called Communism .. he hated Capitalism .. he hated the Christian Church .. he loved Atheistic / Communistic Russia .. he didn't believe the Bible or in God . . . .

anyhow .. I'm just saying all that to say this . . .

here it comes again . . . seems to me all the youth are believing it .. I know that everyone (well most) believe it to various degrees . . . most the main-stream-medias believe it . . . don't forget Hollywood . . .

if anything .. I'm just giving a big shout . . .

HEADS-UP !!! ..

the second verse is same as the first




hello to my brothers and sisters in Christ

dadman

LOL...Socialism and Communism are not even the same thing. Socialism is an economic philosophy. Communism is a political ideology which incorporates socialism's economics into a right-wing governmental framework and then twists it. Socialism (since it is purely economic) can lend itself to almost any form of government (i.e. Democratic Socialism, Communism, Anarcho-Socialism, etc.). There is a difference. Maybe, before you talk about things and pontificate on them, you should read up on them so that you will not be ignorant of the differences and sound ridiculous to those of us who have studied and know the difference. Most kids are not into socialism, there is no secular humanist plot to take over the world, there is no radical gay agenda, and the world is not racing toward Armageddon in a hand basket...LOL

Okay, now bring on the arguments. (Yawn) I've heard 'em all before.
 
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ImaginaryDay

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All this talk about "social justice" Socialism . . . reminds me of what happened in 1978 .. Jim Jones and the 900+ people who followed him to their deaths .. Jim Jones was not a Christian .. he was a left-wing Atheist / new-age cult leader who preached another gospel called Communism .. he hated Capitalism .. he hated the Christian Church .. he loved Atheistic / Communistic Russia .. he didn't believe the Bible or in God . . . .

anyhow .. I'm just saying all that to say this . . .

here it comes again . . . seems to me all the youth are believing it .. I know that everyone (well most) believe it to various degrees . . . most the main-stream-medias believe it . . . don't forget Hollywood . . .

if anything .. I'm just giving a big shout . . .

HEADS-UP !!! ..

the second verse is same as the first




hello to my brothers and sisters in Christ

dadman

You're an American with the Canadian Conservative party? No wonder you're confused...;)

Just kidding. Socialism and Social Justice are totally different animals. Do some research. I am not a socialist by a looooong stretch, but if it were not for the promotion of social justice and equity, many would still be oppressed in our society (not that they still aren't).
 
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Episcoboi

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You're an American with the Canadian Conservative party? No wonder you're confused...;)

Just kidding. Socialism and Social Justice are totally different animals. Do some research. I am not a socialist by a looooong stretch, but if it were not for the promotion of social justice and equity, many would still be oppressed in our society (not that they still aren't).

Exactly. I appreciate your post.
 
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AgapeBible

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Oh yeah, like Republican fatcat greed is really so Christian. Capitalism, he who dies with the most toys wins, yeah that's what Jesus preached.


Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had and give it to the poor. Jesus constantly preached about giving charity and helping out the poor and needy. Paul said Christian faith was all about helping people. Most early Christians were poor, the ones who were rich did their best to help out their impoverished brothers. Greed has NO BUSINESS in the Christian faith.

Jesus Christ said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. Perhaps this is because wealth distacts us from our dedication to God.

Social justice is about equality. It is about giving the poor and middle class equal rights with rich people. People in the slums should have the same rights as those in the suburbs. The law should treat people equal and help those who are financially disadvandaged. I'm not saying people should be rewarded for being lazy, but people need a hand up and not a hand out.
 
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Episcoboi

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Oh yeah, like Republican fatcat greed is really so Christian. Capitalism, he who dies with the most toys wins, yeah that's what Jesus preached.


Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had and give it to the poor. Jesus constantly preached about giving charity and helping out the poor and needy. Paul said Christian faith was all about helping people. Most early Christians were poor, the ones who were rich did their best to help out their impoverished brothers. Greed has NO BUSINESS in the Christian faith.

Jesus Christ said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. Perhaps this is because wealth distacts us from our dedication to God.

Social justice is about equality. It is about giving the poor and middle class equal rights with rich people. People in the slums should have the same rights as those in the suburbs. The law should treat people equal and help those who are financially disadvandaged. I'm not saying people should be rewarded for being lazy, but people need a hand up and not a hand out.

I couldn't agree more with what you had to say in the above post. Thank you for your perspective, agapedragon. :)

We seem to forget that the early Christian community, as related by the book of Acts, sold all of their possessions or held them in common so that the belonged to the group and everyone, no matter the station they were born into, had what they needed to live. They supported one another and everything was owned in community. Sounds kinda like support of socialist collectivism to me. It definitely wasn't a promotion of captalist privatism.
 
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Albion

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I couldn't agree more with what you had to say in the above post. Thank you for your perspective, agapedragon. :)

We seem to forget that the early Christian community, as related by the book of Acts, sold all of their possessions or held them in common so that the belonged to the group and everyone, no matter the station they were born into, had what they needed to live. They supported one another and everything was owned in community. Sounds kinda like support of socialist collectivism to me. It definitely wasn't a promotion of captalist privatism.

and it definitely wasn't a form of Socialism. But if you sincerely believe that, I have a nice Amish family for you. I see that at present your icon indicates that you identify with the wealthiest religious denomination in the USA.
 
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Albion

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LOL...Socialism and Communism are not even the same thing. Socialism is an economic philosophy. Communism is a political ideology which incorporates socialism's economics into a right-wing governmental framework and then twists it.

Not in any way Right Wing.

Maybe, before you talk about things and pontificate on them, you should read up on them so that you will not be ignorant of the differences and sound ridiculous to those of us who have studied and know the difference.

It's always best to be sure of one's own facts before opening up on someone else with talk like that.
 
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rayodeluz

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Why Christians Shouldn’t Be Offended By So-Called "Socialism"

by Morgan Guyton

In a recent interview with George Stephanopoulos, Congressman Paul Ryan said that he had a basic philosophical difference with the Democrats: he believes that rights come from God while they think rights come from the government. Setting aside the question of whether this distinction is fair, I think it captures the source of the visceral rage of Teavangelicals who have made Paul Ryan their hero. They have defined their battlefield as a contest between Christianity and secular humanism, God vs. government. Government support programs for the poor have to be wasteful, enabling, and unfair, or else God would lose His relevance. While I understand this fear, it’s very problematic from a Biblical perspective.

God cares immensely whether or not our society takes care of its most vulnerable members and whether it provides a means for kids growing up in disadvantage to have an equal opportunity to succeed. If all people are indeed "created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights," then any politician who fears God should create laws that respect what God desires for the widows and orphans He loves. I have seen a lot of hysteria being posted by Christians online in reaction to the health care ruling and election year politics. I wanted to share several reasons I don’t see any Christian basis for being offended by the "socialism" so many Christians express their outrage about.

1) We’re supposed to be saved from meritocracy

The most fundamental concept of evangelical Christianity is the doctrine of justification by faith. Our salvation is not something we can earn, but only receive as a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9 provides the best summary of this concept: "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." We are supposed to be transformed by the gift of God’s grace; it’s supposed to start a chain reaction of grace in how we treat other people. God forgives our trespasses so that we will forgive those who trespass against us. Jesus’ message in the parable of the unmerciful servant in Matthew 18:21-35 is that receiving mercy from God and refusing to show mercy to others means rejecting God’s mercy.

When I truly experience the complete deliverance of Christ, I come to see every aspect of my life as a gift. Having a job is a gift; being able to pay my bills is a gift; having the knowledge and skills to acquire a job is a gift. If I am mistreated, that too is a gift for the sake of my spiritual refinement. Living under grace means being liberated from meritocracy in which I think in terms of what I deserve or earn. God’s grace is supposed to set me free from a slavish devotion to making sure that I’m always treated fairly and raising a fuss if I suspect anyone of receiving a benefit they didn’t earn.

People who get incensed about having to pay taxes for programs that help poor people who "don’t deserve help" reveal that they are still slaves to the meritocracy Jesus died to save them from. As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 4:7, "What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?" Everything we have is a gift from God. Nothing is our property; we are only stewards of God’s property. It is reasonable to have genuine stewardship concerns about how the government spends God’s money, but any argument based on meritocracy itself has no place in Christian discourse.

2) God can use the government to accomplish His purposes

A lot of Teavangelicals make the argument that they have no problem helping the poor; they just want it to happen through their local megachurch and not the government. But according to the Bible, God doesn’t have a problem using government to take care of the people He wants to provide for. Paul explains in Romans 13:6, "The authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them." God has always worked through people and processes who don’t acknowledge His sovereignty, even a brutal pagan government like the Roman Empire. God is not in competition with any government; God rules over all governments.

When we get bent out of shape about our taxes being involuntary unlike the church offering plate and distributing our money in ways that we cannot personally oversee, then our concern is about our individual sovereignty and not God’s. What right do we have to tell God He can’t bless a single mother who’s been crying out to Him for help through the WIC or SNAP food assistance programs because we want to be the ones who hand her a bag of groceries? It is indeed a greater blessing to participate in hands-on, relational missions than to just write a check for somebody else to do the work, but God is not beholden to our need for "the right hand to know what the left hand is doing" (Matthew 6:3) as He decides how to provide for His widows and orphans.

3) The market is no less vulnerable to idolatry and corruption than the state

Our Cold War legacy is the only explanation I can find for the way that Americans see the market as "Christian" and the state as "atheist." There is nothing inherently Christian about capitalism, though when capitalism works well, it’s because Christian values have restrained capitalists from abandoning themselves completely to greed. This restraint hasn’t seemed to take place recently, at least not in the financial sector. In 2008, we learned that if people can get away with calling lies "financial instruments," then they will do so to make money. It baffles me why Teavangelicals continue to maintain that the market always knows best, but then consider any "government official" to be suspicious at best and utterly diabolical at worst.

Several members of my congregation work for government agencies. Some really enjoy their jobs and seem to have an opportunity to be effective; others are getting crushed by the pressure to produce results that fit into political "talking points" rather than dealing honestly with whatever is in front of them. I can understand the rationale for believing that a for-profit corporation will be more attentive to troubleshooting its productivity. But this is different than trusting the free market itself to behave like "nature" and provide the basis for a nation’s social equilibrium on its own.

Since Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species, Western culture has been caught in a fierce debate over what counts as "natural." Christians affirm that nature is God’s creation and that its equilibrium and order exist because God made nature that way. According to the Christian perspective,the created order was shattered when the primordial humanity represented by Adam and Eve deviated from God’s perfect equilibrium to act according to their self-interest for the first time. In contrast, the Darwinian perspective affirms not merely that life developed over the course of billions of years but that there has been no creator overseeing the development of life. Self-interest, rather than being a rebellion against God’s equilibrium, is the basis for natural equilibrium in the doctrine of survival of the fittest.

The free market is the space created in the human community by billions of acts of self-interest. Every time a person is restrained from acting in self-interest whether by government regulations or their own internal moral reservations, they are "corrupting" the purity of the market. It makes sense to embrace the market as "natural" if we have accepted the Darwinian vision for life and understand rational self-interest as the highest moral virtue, in accordance with the teachings of Paul Ryan’s favorite atheist philosopher Ayn Rand. Trusting the self-interest of millions of investors to "naturally" come up with a just solution for people without health insurance, for example, means subscribing to Darwin’s understanding of nature instead of Genesis. To say that the market needs no regulation is no less bold a claim than saying that the world doesn’t need God.

Conclusion

Please recognize what I have said and haven’t said. There are legitimate arguments to be made against Obamacare and any number of other political issues. But we misrepresent Christ when our arguments are based on meritocracy or the assumption that the free market is "Christian" while government-based solutions are "secular humanist." I would much rather see solutions for poverty emerge on a local grassroots level through authentic community-building relationships. As a Christian pastor, I would much rather see people provided for both materially and spiritually as one package in the kingdom of God. But regarding those aspects of human need like health care and housing that require greater resources than even large megachurches can muster, I don’t see why Christians should fight tooth and nail to prevent God from using our secular government to provide for these needs.

—-
Morgan Guyton is the associate pastor of Burke United Methodist Church in Burke, Virginia
 
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Albion

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Conclusion

Please recognize what I have said and haven’t said. There are legitimate arguments to be made against Obamacare and any number of other political issues. But we misrepresent Christ when our arguments are based on meritocracy or the assumption that the free market is "Christian" while government-based solutions are "secular humanist."

Which is seldom done, so it doesn't say much for this analysis.

But regarding those aspects of human need like health care and housing that require greater resources than even large megachurches can muster, I don’t see why Christians should fight tooth and nail to prevent God from using our secular government to provide for these needs.

Anyone who believes that he knows what God would do in every detail of our laws and also believes in dictatorship by theologians (who are always assumed to be the ones who agree with the speaker although they could very well have other ideas of what God wants if the system were put into effect), would probably like this. I favor our Constitutional system myself.
 
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nehalem

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Socialism, Communism, Marxism etc have 1 thing in common. They elevate man to the status of God and every place in this world where that has been tried and is being tried, is a miserable failure and a land of many sorrows, many of them untold. You have to understand why they fail and for that you have to read your Bible.

Christians who believe that Socialism is about "social justice" need to read their Bible more. God clearly says he blesses the upright and punishes the wicked. Just look at natural laws that are built into human nature. If you sleep around and commit adultery non stop, eventually you'll anger the wrong spouse or contract various diseases that will inflict you with great pain or death. If you are a liar and a murderer and a thief, you will be hated by those you steal from or lie to and you'll suffer a lot from it.

If you are truthful, peaceful, loving, kind, you will have none of these problems. It won't all be perfect but overall God will bless you if you love him and keep His commandments.

The socialist on the other hand, swelled by pride, wants to take the blessing hand of God and the inherit curses of sin and neutralize them. They want equality for all when God clearly does not deal equality for both the sinner and the saint. Communists are the worst by my judgement but even socialism lowers the quality for everyone when the Godless politician tells the country that now everyone gets the same level of care, both the murder and the upright. It won't work, ever.

Capitalism has nothing to do with greed. You can still be a greedy socialist and communist, as many of the leaders are. Capitalism simply states that a man's work can be funded by someone else's capital, and the person who funds it should be justly compensated for taking the risk of doing the funding. That's capitalism in a nutshell. There is nothing evil about it, it is the natural state of the fallen universe in fact. What most people call capitalism in America is not even close to capitalism, it is cronyism or pure greed that has nothing to do with Capitalism.
 
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Albion

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Capitalism has nothing to do with greed. You can still be a greedy socialist and communist, as many of the leaders are. Capitalism simply states that a man's work can be funded by someone else's capital, and the person who funds it should be justly compensated for taking the risk of doing the funding. That's capitalism in a nutshell. There is nothing evil about it, it is the natural state of the fallen universe in fact. What most people call capitalism in America is not even close to capitalism, it is cronyism or pure greed that has nothing to do with Capitalism.

...and that cronyism is made possible because of the involvement of GOVERNMENT.
 
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Episcoboi

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Not in any way Right Wing.



It's always best to be sure of one's own facts before opening up on someone else with talk like that.

I got the "wing" wrong in typing. It is an honest mistake, and the only "fact" I got wrong in that statement. I hardly think it was worth all the trouble you went to. You could've just said, "It's left wing."
 
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Albion

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I got the "wing" wrong in typing. It is an honest mistake, and the only "fact" I got wrong in that statement. I hardly think it was worth all the trouble you went to. You could've just said, "It's left wing."

Hey. Around here no one can take anything like that for granted. The weirdest claims are made daily, and unless there is some other tip-off in the sentence structure or a contradition somewhere, you cannot assume that it's a mental slip up just because it's a different way of looking at things.
 
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HalupkiMonster

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LOL...Socialism and Communism are not even the same thing. Socialism is an economic philosophy. Communism is a political ideology which incorporates socialism's economics into a right-wing governmental framework and then twists it. Socialism (since it is purely economic) can lend itself to almost any form of government (i.e. Democratic Socialism, Communism, Anarcho-Socialism, etc.). There is a difference. Maybe, before you talk about things and pontificate on them, you should read up on them so that you will not be ignorant of the differences and sound ridiculous to those of us who have studied and know the difference. Most kids are not into socialism, there is no secular humanist plot to take over the world, there is no radical gay agenda, and the world is not racing toward Armageddon in a hand basket...LOL

Okay, now bring on the arguments. (Yawn) I've heard 'em all before.

images
 
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Obscure

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Oh yeah, like Republican fatcat greed is really so Christian. Capitalism, he who dies with the most toys wins, yeah that's what Jesus preached.


Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had and give it to the poor. Jesus constantly preached about giving charity and helping out the poor and needy. Paul said Christian faith was all about helping people. Most early Christians were poor, the ones who were rich did their best to help out their impoverished brothers. Greed has NO BUSINESS in the Christian faith.

Jesus Christ said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. Perhaps this is because wealth distacts us from our dedication to God.

Social justice is about equality. It is about giving the poor and middle class equal rights with rich people. People in the slums should have the same rights as those in the suburbs. The law should treat people equal and help those who are financially disadvandaged. I'm not saying people should be rewarded for being lazy, but people need a hand up and not a hand out.


The Holy Bible, Exodus 20:15
"Thou shalt not steal."

The Holy Bible, Matthew 19:18
"He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,"
 
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Albion

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Why Christians Shouldn’t Be Offended By So-Called "Socialism"

by Morgan Guyton

In a recent interview with George Stephanopoulos, Congressman Paul Ryan said that he had a basic philosophical difference with the Democrats: he believes that rights come from God while they think rights come from the government. Setting aside the question of whether this distinction is fair

Let's NOT set it aside. It is entirely fair and accurate. 'Nuff said, even if some rural parson has his own political thoughts..
 
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