So who did Christ die for?

[eldermike]

When God as man (Jesus) spoke the words saying that anyone who rejects Him will be judged on the last days it became truth that very second. Rejection is death, all the work in the world will not change the decision to get to heaven by another method, there is only one method. Jesus carefully spoke the words knowing that to save some others would be lost by their decision to reject the cross as the gift of salvation.

Jesus came to save the world by going to the cross to pay the debt of sin for all that would beleive in Him. The second death is for those that reject this truth. Since we are all sinners the debt was paid for all that will claim the gift by making a decision to believe. A Christians life begins with a decision and a measure of grace so that we can believe. Christ died to pay the price for salvation for all who will decide that He did so. Our faith can go all over the park in our lives based upon circumstances, situations and events. Faith in God is not the same thing as belief in the saving work of Jesus Christ death on a cross. That is salvation alone, by itself, finished, done and fully paid. That is a saving knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus on a cross. We make this stuff way to complicated, Jesus said this in less than 10 words. You can't save yourself. The real answer to the question is Jesus died for you and me. He awaits our decision and by the power of the only truth, life or death is a decision we make.

Blessings

Blessings

 

[mjwhite]

Well Elder Mike you said a mouthful. (-:

I would like you to explain about the millions, probabaly billions who never heard of Jesus and the gospel, much less reject Him. [ "The second death is for those that reject this truth. " ]

Since these millions upon millions never had a "a saving knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus on a cross", how is it they rejected the Gospel?

You finish with this:
He awaits our decision and by the power of the only truth, life or death is a decision we make.

Why then did you make the right decision “by the power of the only truth”, while others made the wrong decision by that same “power of the only truth”?

 

[suzie]

Therefore just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-for before the law was given, sin was in the world. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men....so that , just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:12-13,18,21) So yes, Christ died for sinners--for we are all sinners. We also have free will to choose Christ or choose death.

 

[mjwhite]

Dear Suzie,
If I give a 1000$ to every sinner in my local congregation, you could say I gave a 1000$ to sinners. But would you get a 1000$? No, since you are not in my local congregation. Your logic is flawed Suzie.


I am not disputing whether those who chose Christ do so out of their free will. But one cannot choose Chrisr IF they never heard of Him. Millions upon millions, possibly billions have not heard of Jesus, so they can't choose from their free will Christ or death. That choice was or is never available to them.

 

[suzie]

So you are thinking about those who do not know Christ out of ignorance. First of all, in today's world I hardly think that Jesus hasnt seeped into the culture of most civilizations of today. They may not understand Christianity, but they know about it. That is only my opinion however. In Romans 2:12 it tells us that People are condemned not for what they dont know but what they do with what they know. Those who know God's Word and law will be judged according. Those who have never seen a bible still know right from wrong and they will be judged because they didnt keep even those standards that their own conscious dictated.

 

[mjwhite]

Dear suzie,

For your theory to be right, it has to be right in all cultures, and in all times.

Now i agree with you that those who do not hear the gospel still know right from wrong and are judged accordingly. Even as you said, they didn't keep even those standards that their own conscious dictated.

What you are saying is that they made bad choices. They chose to do what they knew was wrong. When they get to heaven, they won't be judged on whether they rejected Christ, but because they chose to sin.

1st Corinthians 1:18 tells us that the words of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

If one doesn't understand the cross, and simply knows about it how is it they are to be condemned for not believing what they do not understand? Aren't we asking them to trust their eternitiy on Jesus? Do you think one should be judged for NOT basing their eternity on what they do not understand?

Likewise they are many even in America who are perishing because they do not believe the Gospel, wouldn't you agree? What does the Word tell us about these people? It tells us that those who are perishing think the Gospel foolishness. If they think it foolishness, why would you expect them to believe it and trust their eternal destiny on it?

Those who reject the truth do so because they have embraced a life of rebellion against God. But we all at one time embraced such a life style. Why then do we see the gospel as the power of God unto salvation while those perishing only see it as foolishness?

It is because God has called us and has revealed the truth to us via the Spirit to our spirit. At one time we were like them. natural man who could not accept the things of God, but God has opened our blinded eyes so that we see what He has freely given us.

They remain blind to the truth. Until they can see that the gospel is NOT foolishness, and until God opens their blinded eyes, they will NOT freely decide to follow Jesus. They remain in their sins, and are judged for their willful transgressions of what they know is right.

Simply hearing with the natural ears some of what is God's Word does not give these spiritually blind and deaf people any reason to willfully accept the Gospel and submit themselves to Jesus.

God must save them, even as God has saved me, by opening up my blind eyes, unstopping my deaf ears, softening my rock hard heart, and revealing to my spirit the things of God so that I could know what God has freely given me, eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord.

 

[eldermike]

Since these millions upon millions never had a "a saving knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus on a cross", how is it they rejected the Gospel?

I didn't say they did. I said by those words. We have the duty to speak those words. If one dosn't hear the words what then?

I do not beleive God owes us such an answer. The job was given to us to speak them.

Blessings

 

[prodigal]

What was the question?

 

[eldermike]

Prodigal,

I was responding to a question from MJWhite in an eariler post. He asked me how could I explain all the people that never heard the gospel message as to what happens to them?

I don't. I was called to tell them before they die. I said that God dosn't owe me an answer beyond that. This is His plan for salvation, not mine. I could make an argument based upon the resurection of the dead but that would be a justification on my part to let God worry about it. I am called to worry about it.

Blessings

 

[Warrior4Jah]

Jesus died for every sinner who will ever live, he died so EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD would have the chance to be saved from sin. Quite simple.

 

[mjwhite]

Dear Warrior,

Here is your assertation:
Jesus died for every sinner who will ever live, he died so EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD would have the chance to be saved from sin. Quite simple.


Now explain how those who never hear have a chance to be saved from sin.

 

[mjwhite]

Dear Eldermike,

You said,
I do not beleive God owes us such an answer. The job was given to us to speak them.

God owes us no answer about anything. The question isn't whether or not OWES us answer [since he doesn't] but whether He has given us one.

God says all have sinned and have earned hell. God says that only by belief resulting in confession of the truth and Lordship of Jesus can one be saved from their deserved end.

That leaves ALL the bases covered. Since we are sinners, we deserve hell and unless we trust Jesus we will get what we deserve.

Why Eldermike are you not getting hell?

And I agree with you that it is our job to preach the truth of the gospel, but IF you are going to declare something as true, you should be willing to defend your declarations.

I mean you yourself declared that there was only one method to get into heaven, so what is that method if it is NOT having faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[eldermike]

Mjwhite,

I believe we are saying the same thing.

Blessings