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So Where was the Teleprompter?

Bradskii

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How does that compare to this?
Schoolyard arguments are back I see. 'Sir, he did it first'. You can't use what Biden might have done to excuse what Trump has done. It's not an excuse you can use. It's not available to you. You have to address the nonsense that Trump says. On a very regular basis.

What you're effectively saying is 'If that is bad, then what about this?' Note the first clause. You have to accept the first to be able to use the second.

And you know that guy Biden you just linked to? He's not running. It's been in all the papers. You might as well have pointed out something dumb Bush said.
 
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MrMoe

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Schoolyard arguments are back I see. 'Sir, he did it first'.

So now it's "Schoolyard arguments". Before it was about "comparing". So disingenuous.


You can't use what Biden might have done to excuse what Trump has done. It's not an excuse you can use. It's not available to you.


So effectively you're saying 'Rules for thee but not for me'.


You have to address the nonsense that Trump says. On a very regular basis.



No I don't. Especially not on a thread that's not about him.


What you're effectively saying is 'If that is bad, then what about this?' Note the first clause. You have to accept the first to be able to use the second.

Actually the proper phrasing is: 'If you think that is bad, then what about this?'


And you know that guy Biden you just linked to? He's not running. It's been in all the papers. You might as well have pointed out something dumb Bush said.

He's still running the country in case you'd forgotten. One man was president and the other is currently president. Fair comparison.
 
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A2SG

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The video footage shows teleprompters were there and shows Trump looking directly at them when he said it. Also, Trump said he was reading off the teleprompter. Poor attempt at gaslighting.
No gaslighting from this end. So, I guess, you believe that Trump read something on his teleprompter about airports during the War of 1812 and never once thought, hmm, that's odd. Stable genius indeed.

It seems you have no issue with Kamala's nonsensical ramblings without a teleprompter. Which begs the question why it bothers you when Trump gets one thing wrong while using a teleprompter.
I don't consider either all that big a deal, really. Certainly not a deal breaker in any event. But, when criticizing Harris for being inarticulate on camera, it does naturally bring one to consider how her opponent handles the same situation...and, well, the child care thing alone is well beyond "nonsensical ramblings," and heading to complete and utter jabberwocky.

I don't need to read her mind to know that Biden's mental decline was obvious for all to see.

You just need to compare past Joe with present Joe.

Kamala Harris spent the last four years working with Biden, so it would have been more noticeable for her than for the general public who saw the obvious.
Yeah, I know. He's 80. He forgets stuff sometimes, and he has always been prone to gaffes fairly often. Whether that equates to being unfit for duty, that's a whole other matter. You are nowhere near qualified to make that determination. Biased, uninformed, baseless opinions notwithstanding.

Not all people age the same. You should know that.
Exactly. Being occasionally forgetful, even rambling on occasion does not equal senility or total mental incapacity.

Now, don't get me wrong here: I am not trying to defend Joe Biden. I agree he's too old, and probably shouldn't be doing the job he was elected to do. But the only reason he is doing that job is because a majority of voters felt he was the better option than his opponent. And I happen to agree with that.

Heck, I'd even still agree with that if Joe were a complete vegetable and on 24 hour life support. Which, let's be clear here, he is not.

You don't need a diagnosis to know if someone is mentally unfit for office, as shown by Biden dropping out despite no formal diagnosis. He obviously thought he was unfit for another four years, as did many millions of Americans.
And he won't be serving another four years, so problem solved. Let the man rest and have the retirement he deserves.

Either she knew, which means she was part of the gaslighting or she didn't know, which means she's stupider than the average person, who saw the obvious mental decline. Neither is a good look.
Or she knows stuff you don't.

Gee, I wonder if that could possibly be the case here....

Moses was a murderer who killed an Egyptian then fled the scene of the crime. He also wrote parts of the bible. Should I stop reading the bible?
Your call, not mine.

Nelson Mandela was also a convicted felon. I'm guessing you think very little of him.
Never met the man.

You seem to think Trump's felonies are the be-all and end-all. Other people are more considerate than that.
It's not just that he's committed crimes. He's committed fraud, many, many times over. And, not only has he consistently denied any and all responsibility for any of it, I've seen nothing to indicate he ever plans to change his ways. He's even argued, that he has immunity and is above the law (successfully, which is worrisome all by itself). So, I have every reason to believe he'll be just as likely to defraud the American public again, just as he's done to pretty much everyone he's ever done business with.

So, yeah, that means I don't trust him.

Why you do is a mystery to me...but that's for you to figure out, not me.

You already gave the numbers. Why are you bringing this up again?
Because it's relevant to the point I'm making.

Neither can Kamala Harris be trusted. In her first interview she said she "made it clear on the debate stage in 2020" she would not ban fracking. In fact she never said she would ban fracking back in 2020, instead she just stated Joe Biden's position on fracking.


She has no problem lying straight to the American people's faces.
Hey, if you think that's worse than multiple counts of criminal fraud, ongoing attempts to lie about a stolen election and using criminal methods to remain in power despite losing that election, that's your business.

For me, there is no metric by which Trump comes across as a better candidate for president than Kamala Harris. None. Even if your criticisms of Harris were entirely valid, and I won't deny, some are, she is still a better choice. By far.

So basically all you have is the guilt by association fallacy. Trump knows a guy that knows a guy that worked on project 2025.
More like 140 guys, all of whom have worked in his previous administration, including six cabinet members and at least one chief of staff.

So, it's quite a bit more than he knows a guy.

And besides, that was one factor among many. You just ignored all the rest of them.

It really doesn't matter who does it more. If it bothers you with Trump it should bother you with Harris.
Forgive me for not being bothered to the degree you want me to be. The fact remains: in my mind, there is no metric where Trump comes across as a better candidate for president than Kamala Harris.

For someone who is adamant that they are not voting for Trump you can't seem to keep his name out your mouth.
Is that a problem? If I strongly believe the man should not be president, does that somehow mean I shouldn't say so?

Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm gonna.

-- A2SG, I'm ornery that way.....
 
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MrMoe

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No gaslighting from this end. So, I guess, you believe that Trump read something on his teleprompter about airports during the War of 1812 and never once thought, hmm, that's odd. Stable genius indeed.

It's not what I believe. It's a fact that Trump Was reading off a teleprompter. Or do you deny it?



I don't consider either all that big a deal, really. Certainly not a deal breaker in any event. But, when criticizing Harris for being inarticulate on camera, it does naturally bring one to consider how her opponent handles the same situation...and, well, the child care thing alone is well beyond "nonsensical ramblings," and heading to complete and utter jabberwocky.

What are you referring to? Biden's "Black child care" comment?


Yeah, I know. He's 80. He forgets stuff sometimes, and he has always been prone to gaffes fairly often.

Trump is old too. Just a few years younger in fact. Do you take that into consideration with the teleprompter incident?


Whether that equates to being unfit for duty, that's a whole other matter.


What's your opinion on the matter?


You are nowhere near qualified to make that determination. Biased, uninformed, baseless opinions notwithstanding.


I've listened to experts who made the same determination. So it's not uninformed or baseless.



Exactly. Being occasionally forgetful, even rambling on occasion does not equal senility or total mental incapacity.

Never said "total mental incapacity" I said mental decline.


Now, don't get me wrong here: I am not trying to defend Joe Biden. I agree he's too old, and probably shouldn't be doing the job he was elected to do. But the only reason he is doing that job is because a majority of voters felt he was the better option than his opponent. And I happen to agree with that.

Heck, I'd even still agree with that if Joe were a complete vegetable and on 24 hour life support. Which, let's be clear here, he is not.

What qualifications did you use to determine he's too old?



And he won't be serving another four years, so problem solved. Let the man rest and have the retirement he deserves.

He hasn't retired yet. He's still president.


Or she knows stuff you don't.

Gee, I wonder if that could possibly be the case here....


What kind of "stuff"?


Your call, not mine.

I want your opinion.


Never met the man.

Neither have I. But I do know he was loved by many millions of people, and that there must be a reason for them loving him despite him being a convicted felon.


It's not just that he's committed crimes. He's committed fraud, many, many times over.



What's your metric?


And, not only has he consistently denied any and all responsibility for any of it,


He's allowed to do that. There have been may people through history that have been wrongfully convicted of a crime.


I've seen nothing to indicate he ever plans to change his ways.


You want him to stop using his right to free speech and stop protesting his innocence?


He's even argued, that he has immunity and is above the law (successfully, which is worrisome all by itself).


When did he argue he was above the law? The supreme court gave him immunity, so it's within the law.


So, I have every reason to believe he'll be just as likely to defraud the American public again, just as he's done to pretty much everyone he's ever done business with.


How do you know Kamala Harris wont do that, or worse?



So, yeah, that means I don't trust him.


Do you trust Harris?


Why you do is a mystery to me...but that's for you to figure out, not me.

When did I say I trusted him?


Hey, if you think that's worse than multiple counts of criminal fraud, ongoing attempts to lie about a stolen election and using criminal methods to remain in power despite losing that election, that's your business.


Both are liars, so I don't see the point of splitting hairs as you are doing.


For me, there is no metric by which Trump comes across as a better candidate for president than Kamala Harris. None. Even if your criticisms of Harris were entirely valid, and I won't deny, some are, she is still a better choice. By far.


Your "metric" doesn't seem to follow any logical, consistent pattern.


More like 140 guys, all of whom have worked in his previous administration, including six cabinet members and at least one chief of staff.

So, it's quite a bit more than he knows a guy.

And besides, that was one factor among many. You just ignored all the rest of them.

It's still a guilt by association fallacy. The fallacy has no limit to the number of people.



Forgive me for not being bothered to the degree you want me to be.


It not the degree, it's the double standard.



The fact remains: in my mind, there is no metric where Trump comes across as a better candidate for president than Kamala Harris.

This thread isn't about your metric for Trump.


Is that a problem? If I strongly believe the man should not be president, does that somehow mean I shouldn't say so?

Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm gonna.

-- A2SG, I'm ornery that way.....


This goes against your earlier statement: "If someone is truly on the fence trying to decide between Harris and Trump, I'm not sure what I can say to sway them that hasn't already been said many times over.

Seems obvious your motive is to trying to sway others into voting for Kamala and not vote for Trump. Just be honest.
 
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It's not what I believe. It's a fact that Trump Was reading off a teleprompter. Or do you deny it?
Apparently, Trump denies it:

"We had a lot of rain. I stood in the rain. The teleprompter went out," he said in response to a question from NBC's Kelly O'Donnell. "It kept going on, and then at the end, it just went out. It went kaput!"
One of those moments was in the passage about 1775, he said.

So, where Trump got the idea that, in 1775, "Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rocket's red glare it had nothing but victory." I have no idea. Especially considering there was no Fort McHenry in 1775. (Fort Whetstone, as it was called at that time, was never attacked during the American Revolution....and it was in Baltimore, not New York or Boston.)

Since you seem to consider this an important issue, I did some checking.

What are you referring to? Biden's "Black child care" comment?
Nope. This:

"Well, I would do that, and we’re sitting down — you know, I was, uh, somebody, we had Sen. Marco Rubio and my daughter, Ivanka, was so, uh, impactful on that issue. It’s a very important issue. But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I’m talking about, that — because child care is child care. It’s, couldn’t — you know, it’s something, you have to have it. In this country, you have to have it. But when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I’m talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they’re not used to but they’ll get used to it very quickly. And it’s not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they’ll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we’re talking about, including child care, that it’s gonna take care. We’re gonna have — I, I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time. Coupled with, uh, the reductions that I told you about on waste and fraud and all of the other things that are going on in our country — because I have to say with child care, I want to stay with childcare, but those numbers are small relative to the kind of economic numbers that I’m talking about, including growth. But growth also headed up by what the plan is that I just, uh, that I just told you about. We’re gonna be taking in trillions of dollars, and as much as childcare is talked about as being expensive, it’s, relatively speaking, not very expensive compared to the kind of numbers we’ll be taking in. We’re going to make this into an incredible country that can afford to take care of its people and then we’ll worry about the rest of the world. Let’s help other people. But we’re gonna take care of our country first. This is about America first. It’s about: Make America great again. We have to do it, because right now we’re a failing nation. So we’ll take care of it. Thank you. Very good question."

You can find the video here: https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/poli...trump-vance-policy-reshma-saujani-lead-digvid


Trump is old too. Just a few years younger in fact. Do you take that into consideration with the teleprompter incident?
Not really. Should I have? Would that account for his complete ignorance of American revolutionary war history, and inability to know that there were no airports in 1775 even if he read that there were on his teleprompter?

If you feel Biden's gaffes and teleprompter performances accurately reflect his complete mental state, what do you think this kind of thing says about Trump's?

What's your opinion on the matter?
I think Biden is 80 years old, and is slowing down. He deserves to retire and have the rest he deserves.

I've listened to experts who made the same determination. So it's not uninformed or baseless.

Before I watch these videos, care to tell me how many times have these people, who I presume are experienced neurologists, examined the president?

Never said "total mental incapacity" I said mental decline.
If that's all you meant, then what's the issue? So what if he's not as quick as he was 20 or 30 years ago? That doesn't mean he's unfit for the job, as you imply.

What qualifications did you use to determine he's too old?
He's 80.

He hasn't retired yet. He's still president.
I know. That's why I said he won't be serving another four years.

What kind of "stuff"?
All kinds of stuff. Like being able to see and interact with the President on a daily basis, to experience his mental state first hand, and directly from him.

Stuff none of us random yahoos on the internet know.

I want your opinion.
I don't care one iota whether or not you read the bible.

Neither have I. But I do know he was loved by many millions of people, and that there must be a reason for them loving him despite him being a convicted felon.
Sure, he fought for freedom and the abolishment of apartheid and was arrested for that. Many people admire him for that.

What's your metric?
The number of times Trump has been found guilty of fraud and other crimes, plus the ones he's still under indictment for.

He's allowed to do that. There have been may people through history that have been wrongfully convicted of a crime.
I never said he wasn't allowed to deny responsibility for his actions. Only that his constant litany of doing so indicates to me he isn't to be trusted. Not with my vote, at least.

You want him to stop using his right to free speech and stop protesting his innocence?
Nope, which is why I never said that.

When did he argue he was above the law? The supreme court gave him immunity, so it's within the law.
He, through his legal team and by his own words, argued for that, which led to the SCOTUS ruling on the issue.

How do you know Kamala Harris wont do that, or worse?
I don't know anything about the future. My Magic 8-Ball keeps coming up "Ask Again Later." (Well, once it came up "Invest In Cochrane Industries," but I don't know what that one means.)

But, if I were to bet, I'd consider it highly unlikely.

Do you trust Harris?
More than I do Trump.

When did I say I trusted him?
You seem to, by your many attempts to defend him. If you don't, then good for you.

Both are liars, so I don't see the point of splitting hairs as you are doing.
Everyone, everywhere, has lied at one time or another. But there is a difference between stealing a candy bar from a local store and robbing several different banks. It's a question of degree.

Your "metric" doesn't seem to follow any logical, consistent pattern.
It does to me. Whether or not you agree isn't my problem.

It's still a guilt by association fallacy. The fallacy has no limit to the number of people.
Nope. I'm not basing my objection merely on the number of people associated with it. Trump claims to know nothing about the project, despite having hired 140 of the people behind it, and having embraced most of the policy recommendations of the Heritage Foundation, who published the document.

In short, when he says he knows nothing about it, I don't believe him.

Plus all that other stuff you ignored.

It not the degree, it's the double standard.
I don't consider it a double standard. I measure both candidates by the same standard: how much I trust them to lead the nation. Trump comes up short.

This thread isn't about your metric for Trump.
We started with teleprompters, and wound up here. If you want to stop discussing anything beyond teleprompters, feel free to ignore anything I say that doesn't involve them.

This goes against your earlier statement: "If someone is truly on the fence trying to decide between Harris and Trump, I'm not sure what I can say to sway them that hasn't already been said many times over.
No, it doesn't.

Seems obvious your motive is to trying to sway others into voting for Kamala and not vote for Trump. Just be honest.
I'm not, and I've specifically said as much several times.

I'm voicing my opinions in response to your comments and questions. Remember, earlier, you said:
What's your opinion on the matter?
Don't blame me for giving you what you asked for.

-- A2SG, if you don't want to hear it, feel free to stop asking for it....
 
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Bradskii

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So now it's "Schoolyard arguments". Before it was about "comparing".
I've desperately tried to explain the difference. It fell on deaf ears.
Actually the proper phrasing is: 'If you think that is bad, then what about this?'
That's right. 'It that's bad, that is, if you think that is bad, then...' I'm obviously talking to you. Did you not understand? I can try to make it simpler, but it will take some work.
 
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MrMoe

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Apparently, Trump denies it:

"We had a lot of rain. I stood in the rain. The teleprompter went out," he said in response to a question from NBC's Kelly O'Donnell. "It kept going on, and then at the end, it just went out. It went kaput!"
One of those moments was in the passage about 1775, he said.

So, where Trump got the idea that, in 1775, "Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rocket's red glare it had nothing but victory." I have no idea. Especially considering there was no Fort McHenry in 1775. (Fort Whetstone, as it was called at that time, was never attacked during the American Revolution....and it was in Baltimore, not New York or Boston.)

Since you seem to consider this an important issue, I did some checking.

Nowhere in the quote does he deny not reading that in the teleprompter. He simply says it was raining and and the end they shut down. This just helps support my other theory that the rain obscured what was written on the teleprompter.


Nope. This:

"Well, I would do that, and we’re sitting down — you know, I was, uh, somebody, we had Sen. Marco Rubio and my daughter, Ivanka, was so, uh, impactful on that issue. It’s a very important issue. But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I’m talking about, that — because child care is child care. It’s, couldn’t — you know, it’s something, you have to have it. In this country, you have to have it. But when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I’m talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they’re not used to but they’ll get used to it very quickly. And it’s not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they’ll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we’re talking about, including child care, that it’s gonna take care. We’re gonna have — I, I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time. Coupled with, uh, the reductions that I told you about on waste and fraud and all of the other things that are going on in our country — because I have to say with child care, I want to stay with childcare, but those numbers are small relative to the kind of economic numbers that I’m talking about, including growth. But growth also headed up by what the plan is that I just, uh, that I just told you about. We’re gonna be taking in trillions of dollars, and as much as childcare is talked about as being expensive, it’s, relatively speaking, not very expensive compared to the kind of numbers we’ll be taking in. We’re going to make this into an incredible country that can afford to take care of its people and then we’ll worry about the rest of the world. Let’s help other people. But we’re gonna take care of our country first. This is about America first. It’s about: Make America great again. We have to do it, because right now we’re a failing nation. So we’ll take care of it. Thank you. Very good question."

You can find the video here: https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/poli...trump-vance-policy-reshma-saujani-lead-digvid

What part of that speech do you have an issue with.?


Not really. Should I have? Would that account for his complete ignorance of American revolutionary war history, and inability to know that there were no airports in 1775 even if he read that there were on his teleprompter?

If you feel Biden's gaffes and teleprompter performances accurately reflect his complete mental state, what do you think this kind of thing says about Trump's?



Yes you should, the same way you take Biden's age into consideration.


I think Biden is 80 years old, and is slowing down. He deserves to retire and have the rest he deserves.


Do you thing Trump is also slowing down?


Before I watch these videos, care to tell me how many times have these people, who I presume are experienced neurologists, examined the president?


Yes, they examine his behavior in the video.


If that's all you meant, then what's the issue? So what if he's not as quick as he was 20 or 30 years ago? That doesn't mean he's unfit for the job, as you imply.

Biden dropping out of the race says otherwise.



That's not a qualification. I'll ask again. What qualifications did you use to determine he's too old?



I know. That's why I said he won't be serving another four years.


That's a non sequitur.


All kinds of stuff. Like being able to see and interact with the President on a daily basis, to experience his mental state first hand, and directly from him.

Stuff none of us random yahoos on the internet know.

Exactly what I've been trying to tell you. Either she knew that Biden was in severe mental decline from first hand experience and kept quiet about it or she didn't notice it, which makes her stupider than the average person, who saw the obvious. Neither is a good look for her.


Sure, he fought for freedom and the abolishment of apartheid and was arrested for that. Many people admire him for that.

And there are things about Trump people admire.


The number of times Trump has been found guilty of fraud and other crimes, plus the ones he's still under indictment for.


So basically your metric didn't exist until Trump got convicted. What was your metric before that?


I never said he wasn't allowed to deny responsibility for his actions. Only that his constant litany of doing so indicates to me he isn't to be trusted. Not with my vote, at least.


He has to be guilty of those actions first. And as you know, people can be found not guilty, years or decades later.


A person constantly protesting their innocence indicates they're not to be trusted? Then all those women killed in the Salem witch trails should not have been trusted according to you.


Nope, which is why I never said that.

So what would indicate to you he has plans to change his ways?


He, through his legal team and by his own words, argued for that, which led to the SCOTUS ruling on the issue.


So in other words, through the law.



I don't know anything about the future. My Magic 8-Ball keeps coming up "Ask Again Later." (Well, once it came up "Invest In Cochrane Industries," but I don't know what that one means.)

But, if I were to bet, I'd consider it highly unlikely.

Why do you consider it unlikely?


More than I do Trump.

Why?


You seem to, by your many attempts to defend him. If you don't, then good for you.

Another non sequitur.


Everyone, everywhere, has lied at one time or another. But there is a difference between stealing a candy bar from a local store and robbing several different banks. It's a question of degree.


Trumps actions have only hurt a few people. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's actions have hurt thousands, maybe millions. So if its a question of degrees, Joe and Kamala come of worse.


Nope. I'm not basing my objection merely on the number of people associated with it. Trump claims to know nothing about the project, despite having hired 140 of the people behind it, and having embraced most of the policy recommendations of the Heritage Foundation, who published the document.

In short, when he says he knows nothing about it, I don't believe him.

Plus all that other stuff you ignored.


Everything you wrote just confirms you are using the guilt by association fallacy. If an atheist hired 140 Muslims and embraced some practices recommended by them, does that indicate the atheist knows something about the Quran?


I don't consider it a double standard. I measure both candidates by the same standard: how much I trust them to lead the nation. Trump comes up short.


Judging by what you've said so far, it's obvious you don't measure both candidates by the same standard.

We started with teleprompters, and wound up here. If you want to stop discussing anything beyond teleprompters, feel free to ignore anything I say that doesn't involve them.

Okay.


No, it doesn't.

yes it does.


I'm not, and I've specifically said as much several times.


Actions speak louder than words.


I'm voicing my opinions in response to your comments and questions. Remember, earlier, you said:

Don't blame me for giving you what you asked for.

Because you insist on talking about Trump even though I've told you several times this thread isn't about Trump.


-- A2SG, if you don't want to hear it, feel free to stop asking for it....


Okay.
 
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MrMoe

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I've desperately tried to explain the difference. It fell on deaf ears.

You've explained the difference. Me bringing up Biden isn't a 'Sir, he did it first' argument. It's a 'Well, how do you compare that with this?' argument.


That's right. 'It that's bad, that is, if you think that is bad, then...'


"It that's bad"? You butchered that whole sentence.


I'm obviously talking to you.

Why put it in quotation marks then?


Did you not understand? I can try to make it simpler, but it will take some work.

Yes, please try to simplify it.
 
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Prospector

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If you think that's bad you should hear Kamala without a teleprompter.

"Every election cycle we talk about this is the most election of our lifetime.
That's fairly easy. She dropped the "important"

"I've been fortunate and blessed during the course of being vice president, have many situations where it becomes clear to me that there are... You know, people of every Asian and gender by the way, who see something about being the first that lets them know they don't need to be -um, limited by other people's limited... Um, understanding on who can do what. And I think that's important. And it relates to all people." -Kamala Harris


No that's not a typo on my part. She really did say "people of every Asian and gender".
I think she meant to say "persuasion"
 
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Bradskii

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Yes, please try to simplify it.
If I point out that Trump has said something patently ridiculous and you say 'well what about this example by Harris?' then you are not excusing what Trump said, you are admitting what he said was ridiculous and using it as a comparison.

I really can't make it simpler.
 
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Nowhere in the quote does he deny not reading that in the teleprompter.
It took several tries, but I finally parsed it as “he affirmed that he did not read that in the teleprompter“, am I correct?
 
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MrMoe

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If I point out that Trump has said something patently ridiculous and you say 'well what about this example by Harris?' then you are not excusing what Trump said, you are admitting what he said was ridiculous and using it as a comparison.

I really can't make it simpler.

Does this mean you are not excusing what Harris said and you are admitting what she said was ridiculous, when you bring up comparisons to Trump?
 
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Pommer

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No. He neither confirmed or denied that was what written on the teleprompter.
We are going to agree to assume that the cockamamie stuff about the Revolutionary War airports would have been on the teleprompter?

He messed and and couldn’t take responsibility for it; he blamed his tools, like good workman.
 
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A2SG

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Nowhere in the quote does he deny not reading that in the teleprompter. He simply says it was raining and and the end they shut down. This just helps support my other theory that the rain obscured what was written on the teleprompter.
Okay, whatever. If the teleprompter was working, and Trump read directly from it...that still means he never noticed the reference to airports when discussing the revolutionary war. Or Fort McHenry, which wasn't involved in the war at all (and wasn't called that at the time anyway).

Not much help there, I'm afraid.

What part of that speech do you have an issue with.?
I have no issue with it. It's completely nonsensical, and has no relation whatsoever to the question asked, or anything bordering on reality, but if that's the kind of thing you like in a candidate for president, you are perfectly free to vote for the guy.

I'm just responding to your criticism of Kamala Harris for being inarticulate, and showing you that her opponent can be even worse in that regard. How much value you place on that criteria is yours to consider.

Yes you should, the same way you take Biden's age into consideration.
Oh, I do take Trump's age into consideration when deciding not to vote for him. But, in the end, it's not as important as so many other reasons I have to not vote for him.

Do you thing Trump is also slowing down?
I think he's going backward, moving further and further away from reality every day.

Yes, they examine his behavior in the video.
So they haven't examined him personally, I take it? And you didn't mention whether or not they were experienced neurologists, or what their experience is regarding cognitive issues.

Just trying to determine if these are informed, educated, medical analyses, or just some internet yahoos with a YouTube account before I bother watching. If it's the latter, frankly, I'd rather see if Ryan George has a new Pitch Meeting video up.

Biden dropping out of the race says otherwise.
Nope. Here's exactly what he said:

“It has been the greatest honor of my life to serve as your President. And while it has been my intention to seek reelection, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as President for the remainder of my term,”
Not only did he not say he was unable to fulfill his duties as POTUS, he said exactly the opposite. He continues to be President, and no one has even tried to invoke the 25th Amendment.

That's not a qualification. I'll ask again. What qualifications did you use to determine he's too old?
His age is a qualification. Also the fact that he's slowed down, and probably won't be up to the task of being President for another four years. He's earned a rest.

Granted, even with these issues taken into consideration, Biden would still be a better President than Trump, as far as I'm concerned. But that ship has sailed, and now Kamala Harris is the candidate.

That's a non sequitur.
Nope. You said he hadn't retired when all I said was he won't be serving another four years. What followed was simply me correcting your misunderstanding.

Exactly what I've been trying to tell you. Either she knew that Biden was in severe mental decline from first hand experience and kept quiet about it or she didn't notice it, which makes her stupider than the average person, who saw the obvious. Neither is a good look for her.
Or her evaluation of Biden's mental state differs from yours. Granted, her seeing him every day, and knowing him for years may not be the same as your viewing a bunch of YouTube clips of him, but she's got to work with what she got.

And there are things about Trump people admire.
I'm sure. Some people might even admire Charles Manson, too. Including Neil Young and the Beach Boys, apparently. There's any number of reasons why different people might admire someone. Some I can agree with, some I do not.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

So basically your metric didn't exist until Trump got convicted. What was your metric before that?
Is that what I said? No.

Please respond to what I say, not stuff you make up yourself. I can't be held responsible for your own imagination.

He has to be guilty of those actions first.
He has been found guilty.

And as you know, people can be found not guilty, years or decades later.
Sure. Anything could happen in the future. Heck, for all I know, a year from now, Trump can pull a rubber mask off and we find he's been Elvis this whole time.

If things change, I'll reconsider my view. If it doesn't, then I likely won't.

A person constantly protesting their innocence indicates they're not to be trusted?
As I keep pointing out, and you keep ignoring, that's not all I base my evaluation on. It's one factor among others.

Then all those women killed in the Salem witch trails should not have been trusted according to you.
Don't forget Giles Corey.

So what would indicate to you he has plans to change his ways?
Him actually doing it.

So in other words, through the law.
He argued for absolute immunity, he got a version of it. But he argued for it first, before the ruling. He felt he should be immune from any and all criminal prosecution. And, as it turns out, a majority of SCOTUS justices agreed, at least to a point. It might not be enough to help him avoid accountability for all of his actions...but now that he knows he'll be immune in the future, who knows what he'll attempt to do, so long as he frames it in the right way.

Why do you consider it unlikely?
Call it a hunch.

I've already given you my many and varied reasons for not trusting Trump. You've got to start paying attention at some point, dude.

Another non sequitur.
Not at all. It was a direct response to your comment.

Trumps actions have only hurt a few people.
That's debatable. Just as an example, there are almost a thousand people who were convicted or pled guilty to crimes committed on January 6, as a direct result of doing what they felt Trump wanted them to do. Add to that those who were directly harmed as a result of those criminal acts, including some deaths, and add the number of people affected or harmed in many different ways from events stemming from that event, and the lies told that culminated in it. And that's just one example.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's actions have hurt thousands, maybe millions. So if its a question of degrees, Joe and Kamala come of worse.
In your estimation. Opinions can vary.

But, as I've said before, you're free to vote for whomever you choose, for whatever reason you like.

Everything you wrote just confirms you are using the guilt by association fallacy.
No, it doesn't. But you seem convinced otherwise, so feel free to believe whatever you wish. Obviously, whatever I say won't change your belief in that regard.

If an atheist hired 140 Muslims and embraced some practices recommended by them, does that indicate the atheist knows something about the Quran?
Actually, I've known more than a few atheists who know a lot more about the holy books of believers than most believers do.

But that's beside the point. Trump not only knows, but has hired at least 140 people who have contributed to Project 2025, including many who have held high and trusted advisory positions in his administration. To claim he knows nothing about it whatsoever is highly unlikely, but even if that's true...it doesn't make things better. In that case, he could very well be led unwittingly down the path the project favors, because so many of his past, and potentially future advisors, hold to the values and plans put forth in the document.

Judging by what you've said so far, it's obvious you don't measure both candidates by the same standard.
Actually, I do. But if that's the conclusion you've come to based on what I said, then what I say doesn't seem to matter much. Believe what you want to.

Actions speak louder than words.
What actions have I done to sway anyone's vote? My words are all I have used here.

Because you insist on talking about Trump even though I've told you several times this thread isn't about Trump.
So stop asking for my opinions about the guy.

-- A2SG, you stop, I'll stop.....but if you ask me a question, I'll answer it.....
 
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Bradskii

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Does this mean you are not excusing what Harris said and you are admitting what she said was ridiculous, when you bring up comparisons to Trump?
That Harris misspeaks on time? Of course she does. We all do. I'd be an idiot to deny it. That said, I am then fully entitled to compare what she says (not to excuse it) versus what Trump says. And let's face it, we had 90 minutes to compare them both last night. I can't take seriously anyone who tries to suggest that Trump even came close to being on equal footing with someone who looked exactly like the experienced prosecutor she was. She was poised, prepped and prepared. Whereas Trump looked like he was winging it ('they're eating dogs...I saw it on TV!').

Think Trump wants to go another round? I seriously hope his team is dumb enough to let him.
 
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MrMoe

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We are going to agree to assume that the cockamamie stuff about the Revolutionary War airports would have been on the teleprompter?

YES. Congratulations, you're using Occam's razor.


He messed and and couldn’t take responsibility for it; he blamed his tools, like good workman.

Pommer: 'To hell with Occam's Razor. Trump randomly decided to insert airports into a pre-written speech and then blamed the teleprompter'
 
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