So What Really Happened in Noah's Tent After the Flood?

[SeventyOne]

There is a lapse in time between verses 24 and 25. The lapse in time can be explained as would a normal storyteller would use lapses in time. In Matthew 3:13, Jesus appears, out of nowhere and fully grown. The last time Mathew had talked about him, Jesus was just a child (See Matthew 2). Nowhere is there a development transition. It is normal to skip large segments of time in telling of many stories (Especially in the Bible).

Gen 9:24 “And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

***[A Lapse or a Gap in Time]***
​

Gen 9:25 "And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

Gen 9:26 "And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”

(Genesis 9:24-26).​

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Source used:
was Canaan the child of Ham and Noah’s wife

Just because ther are time lapses in the scriptures doesn't mean there is one between verses 24 and 25.

What this story lacks is any mention of a gap and any mention of Noah's wife, it's two most important elements.

I saw the Leviticus 18:7 verse on which all of this hinges, and the application is inconclusive at best as sometimes the nakedness of the father is the actual nakedness of the father. There's no responsible place to insert Noah's wife into that narrative, especially when implying incest as a result.

 

[the old scribe]

Seems someone ought to ask a Hebrew expert about Hebrew idioms.
Reading Leviticus 18 & 20 it seems "uncover" refers to copulation.

Here is a member of the forum who is an expert in Hebrew.
SteveCaruso
Translator

 

[SBC]

So What Really Happened in Noah's Tent After the Flood?

Nakedness revealed for others to see is a SHAME unto the one who is naked.

Exod 32
[25] And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies


God covered Adam and Eve's SHAME before they left the Garden.

Gen 3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Noah was unclothed, but was covered by his OWN tent.

Ham, entered within Noah's Tent.

Ham himself caused Noah's nakedness to be revealed, WHEN Ham opened the covering of Noah's Tent.

Ham's eyes then saw Noah's SHAME (nakedness).

Then the consequence;

Verse 9
[25] And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Nothing whatsoever is spoken of Noah's wife, copulation between Ham and his mother, Noah revealing his nakedness, or Noah inviting anyone to come through the threshold into his private Tent.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What do you think about the sin that doomed all mankind to spiritual death , what was it ? Some preach it was sex with the snake .

No. There is no Hebrew idiom to suggest that. Leviticus essentially says that the nakedness of the father is his wife. This helps the story to make a lot more sense in why Noah cursed Canaan instead of Ham. It also explains why the Canaanites are destroyed later. This lines up with what we see later in Genesis, as well. Lot's daughters slept with their own father by getting him drunk (there is that alcohol again) and they got pregnant. Later, their offspring like the Midianites were destroyed by God's command to Israel to destroy them. Why was God wanting them destroyed? The Midianites were trying to send prostitutes to Israel to seduce them with sex in worshiping the false god "Peor."


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[Victory-N-Christ]

I said in one of my posts that I always thought Noah was humiliated and angry at Ham for uncovering his nakedness..
I know I'd be angry and humiliated if one of my kids walked in on me while I was naked.I don't drink but I've seen many drunken people and they act in very irresponsible, sometimes vulgar ways and may be ashamed of their actions if someone mentions it to them the next day or when they sober up.Not saying that Noah acted in an irresponsible or vulgar way.He was passed out in the privacy of his tent and his son came in and exposed him and then talked about it to his other brothers.That right there shows Ham's lack of respect for his Dad.IMHO.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nakedness revealed for others to see is a SHAME unto the one who is naked.

Exod 32
[25] And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies


God covered Adam and Eve's SHAME before they left the Garden.

Gen 3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Noah was unclothed, but was covered by his OWN tent.

Ham, entered within Noah's Tent.

Ham himself caused Noah's nakedness to be revealed, WHEN Ham opened the covering of Noah's Tent.

Ham's eyes then saw Noah's SHAME (nakedness).

Then the consequence;

Verse 9
[25] And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Nothing whatsoever is spoken of Noah's wife, copulation between Ham and his mother, Noah revealing his nakedness, or Noah inviting anyone to come through the threshold into his private Tent.

God Bless,
SBC

Again, why immediately punish the son for the father's crimes? It makes no sense. Also, you have to ignore Bible language in Leviticus to make your interpretation work. You also have to ignore the idiotic nature of your version of the scene. Ham gloats to his two brothers about seeing his father naked or in sleeping with him? That makes no sense. Unless Ham was insane, he would have to realize that his brothers would not approve or be tempted by such perversion. Also, your view provides little to no understanding of anything in the rest of the Scriptures, as well. The scene is a big question mark with your interpretation. But you are free to believe as you wish.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I said in one of my posts that I always thought Noah was humiliated and angry at Ham for uncovering his nakedness..
I know I'd be angry and humiliated if one of my kids walked in on me while I was naked.I don't drink but I've seen many drunken people and they act in very irresponsible, sometimes vulgar ways and may be ashamed of their actions if someone mentions it to them the next day or when they sober up.Not saying that Noah acted in an irresponsible or vulgar way.He was passed out in the privacy of his tent and his son came in and exposed him and then talked about it to his other brothers.That right there shows Ham's lack of respect for his Dad.IMHO.

In many families it is normal for fathers and sons to see each other naked. Especially when bathing. America has made folks to think of nakedness in all situations as taboo.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Seems someone ought to ask a Hebrew expert about Hebrew idioms.
Reading Leviticus 18 & 20 it seems "uncover" refers to copulation.

Here is a member of the forum who is an expert in Hebrew.
SteveCaruso
Translator

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." (1 Corinthians 2:5).


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[Victory-N-Christ]

In many families it is normal for fathers and sons to see each other naked. Especially when bathing. America has made folks to think of nakedness in all situations as taboo.


...

We're just against nakedness in public.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

In many families it is normal for fathers and sons to see each other naked. Especially when bathing. America has made folks to think of nakedness in all situations as taboo.


...

Guess what? I saw what you said before editing your post.But I appreciate you going back and making "nice". Thanks.

 

[4x4toy]

We're just against nakedness in public.

Uncovering a nakedness does not have always apply to nudity, but in this case it is clear to me Noah got drunk off wine and Ham made fun of the old man ..

 

[SBC]

Again, why immediately punish the son for the father's crimes? It makes no sense.

Scripture is not about satisfying ones senses.

Scripture is solely about giving you knowledge, that you can trust to believe or not.

Ham seeing his father naked was not a crime. It was a SHAME unto Noah.
The lesson is; what a mans child DOES can be a SHAME unto the father.
The bigger lesson is; that also applies spiritually; that a human man CAN be a SHAME unto Father God.

The SHAME against Noah was committed BY Noah's youngest son.
The CURSE against Ham, was that his own youngest son (Caanan) would as well be a SHAME unto Ham.

Also, you have to ignore Bible language in Leviticus to make your interpretation work. You also have to ignore the idiotic nature of your version of the scene. Ham gloats to his two brothers about seeing his father naked or in sleeping with him? That makes no sense. Unless Ham was insane, he would have to realize that his brothers would not approve or be tempted by such perversion. Also, your view provides little to no understanding of anything in the rest of the Scriptures, as well. The scene is a big question mark with your interpretation. But you are free to believe as you wish.
...

You are attempting to apply LAWS given in Lev. to men and a situation that occurred BEFORE that LAW was given.

And that makes sense to you?

And you think my understanding is idiotic?

God Bless your little heart.
SBC

 

[SBC]

In many families it is normal for fathers and sons to see each other naked. Especially when bathing. America has made folks to think of nakedness in all situations as taboo.
...

Many "nations" have civil laws forbidding public nudity.
Many peoples of many nations hold spiritual convictions against nudity, except between a husband and wife.

In the privacy of ones Home, a particular room in the home; what people "customarily" do, and with whom; is of their own devices and choosing.

Nothing whatsoever in Scripture teaches nudity outside of being between a husband and wife is acceptable.

For those whom it is "customary" to agree with and follow Scriptural teachings publically or privately; that is of their own devices and choosing; same as you can choose what is "customary" for yourself and household.

It is not a secret; Noah was a man who followed after Gods teachings;
It is not a secret; Ham was not invited into his fathers tent, but did so enter and shamed His father.
It is not a secret; Ham was pronounced to also receive shame from his own youngest son.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

Uncovering a nakedness does not have always apply to nudity, but in this case it is clear to me Noah got drunk off wine and Ham made fun of the old man ..

I agree.Uncovering a nakedness can also mean "shaming" someone and I'd go further and say that in my opinion it could also mean exposing someone's weakness.

 

[4x4toy]

I agree.Uncovering a nakedness can also mean "shaming" someone and I'd go further and say that in my opinion it could also mean exposing someone's weakness.

Exactly , Joseph before the angel visited him about Mary is a prime example of how to handle a matter with wisdom and discretion ..

 

[SeventyOne]

I think the part being missed is here...

Gen 9:21 He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.

He (Noah) drank the wine.
He became drunk.
He laid uncovered in his tent.

So, all the arguments can be made about it was Noah's wife who was naked, but if clearly says the one who was naked was the one who was drunk and sleeping. And that person, we are told, was Noah himself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just because ther are time lapses in the scriptures doesn't mean there is one between verses 24 and 25.

While the time gap or lapse in time is possible, I am now seeing that as an unlikely possibility when I keep rereading the text over and over. It does not sound natural, when reading it.

I am leaning more to the possibility that God sent a dream to Noah while he was drunk about the consequences of his sin. Noah's sin was was not being sober to wake up if his wife was being taken advantage of next to him. Noah received a dream of his son Ham taking advantage of his wife (when he was drunk) and he seen her getting pregnant. Noah then had seen the descendants of Canaan being a wicked and evil people (which God later destroys). So Noah wakes up knowing what his son Ham had done unto him (by Ham taking advantage of his other half in marriage).

What this story lacks is ... any mention of Noah's wife,

The Bible uses many idioms and metaphors so as to hide it's true meaning sometimes. Leviticus gives us the code key of saying it is Noah's wife.

saw the Leviticus 18:7 verse on which all of this hinges, and the application is inconclusive at best as sometimes the nakedness of the father is the actual nakedness of the father. There's no responsible place to insert Noah's wife into that narrative, especially when implying incest as a result.

Read Leviticus 18:7 again. It is essentially saying the nakedness of the father is the wife in that verse.

You have to ignore this idiom or language in the Bible to make your odd view of events work. Nothing makes any sense with your version of the story, my friend. But you are free to believe as you wish.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I think the part being missed is here...

Gen 9:21 He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.

He (Noah) drank the wine.
He became drunk.
He laid uncovered in his tent.

So, all the arguments can be made about it was Noah's wife who was naked, but if clearly says the one who was naked was the one who was drunk and sleeping. And that person, we are told, was Noah himself.

Seriously?

That is your case? Silence from Scripture? If you were to study supposed Bible contradictions in Scripture, you would realize that facts can be omitted from a particular story told to us.

Noah was naked because he was drunk and got frisky with his wife. Afterwards, he passed out.

We fill in the details of the scene by the facts presented to us. Sort of like a criminal investigator does when presented with a murder scene.


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[4x4toy]

Seriously?

That is your case? Silence from Scripture? If you were to study supposed Bible contradictions in Scripture, you would realize that facts can be omitted from a particular story told to us.

Noah was naked because he was drunk and got frisky with his wife. Afterwards, he passed out.

We fill in the details of the scene by the facts presented to us. Sort of like a criminal investigator does when presented with a murder scene....

Have you ever got drunk and did something that was out of your character ? Have you ever been exposed by a loudmouth by things you did but were ashamed of ? But by your own son ?

 

[SeventyOne]

Seriously?

That is your case? Silence from Scripture? If you were to study supposed Bible contradictions in Scripture, you would realize that facts can be omitted from a particular story told to us.

Noah was naked because he was drunk and got frisky with his wife. Afterwards, he passed out.

We fill in the details of the scene by the facts presented to us. Sort of like a criminal investigator does when presented with a murder scene.


...

What silence? It tells us plainly who was naked in the tent.

What it doesn't say is anything about Noah getting 'frisky' with his wife. That's something you are adding to make it fit the narrative you are proposing. There's no gap, no wife, no incest, no dream, and no getting 'frisky' anywhere in the text.