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Featured So What Really Happened in Noah's Tent After the Flood?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So What Really Happened in Noah's Tent After the Flood?

    Here is the story in Genesis 9.

    Gen 9:20 "And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
    Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
    Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
    Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
    Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
    Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
    Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."​

    Leviticus 18:7 says,

    "The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness."​

    So we have:

    Thy father's wife = thy father's nakedness.

    So when Genesis 9:22 says,

    "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, "​

    It is saying that the nakedness of his father (Noah) was Noah's wife.
    It is talking about Noah's wife!
    This is done for the obvious reason so as not to humilate her within the Scriptures.

    Also, why was Canaan cursed?

    Because God's written Word shows us that sleeping with one's mother is punishable by death!

    Leviticus 20:11 says,

    "And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.."​

    We also have to realize here that discovering "nakedness" is a euphemism for sexual relations. This makes Genesis 9 all the more clear.

    So if we were to summarize the story in these verses:

    Gen 9:20 Noah begins making wine.
    Gen 9:21 Noah gets drunk and passes out naked (more than likely because he got frisky with his wife as a result of his drunkenness).
    Gen 9:22 Ham (father of Canaan is highlighted) seeing that his father is incapacitated makes advances on his mother. After all, sex is pleasurable, men tend to desire multiple partners, not many women are available after a global flood, and his mother is probably still attractive due to pre-flood aging conditions. He gloats of his conquest to his brothers.
    Gen 9:23 The brothers try damage control. They cover up their mother (is she drunk also?). The Bible tends to omit relevant facts about woman in Genesis (what was her name?).
    Gen 9:24 Noah comes back into consciousness and finds out or realizes that his wife was violated by Ham.

    ***[A Lapse or a Gap in Time]***
    (For an example of an unexplained gap in time, see Matthew 3:13 and compare with Matthew 2)

    Gen 9:25-26 Then Noah curses Canaan and or the new nation that will be formed from this union.​

    The verse 22 highlighting of Ham as Canaan’s father makes sense if the Jewish reader understood the incestuous origin of Canaan. This would also be an anachronistic clarification that would be very helpful to the reader in this circumstance. Otherwise, it makes very little sense.

    In Summary, the literalist story is different:

    Gen 9:20 Noah begins making wine.
    Gen 9:21 Noah gets drunk.
    Gen 9:22 Ham walks into Noah’s tent and sees him naked. Ham then has perverted thoughts or has some sort of debased enjoyment (Literalists claim this with no textual evidence).
    Gen 9:23 The brothers walk into the tent backwards and cover up their naked father.
    Gen 9:24 Noah comes back into consciousness and figures out that Ham saw him naked (how? The text does not tell, so the literalist must think this happened by magic).
    Gen 9:25-26 He curses a baby/child/young boy for the sin of the father presumably because the son was wicked (though the text never indicates this).​

    Note the time lapse between verses 24 and 25 in this version as well. Did Noah wake up, realize what had happened and then proclaim a curse all without talking to the brothers or even leaving the tent? Some sort of time lapse is indicated in the sentence. Storytellers use time lapses for convenience.

    In short, those who claim that Ham merely saw his father naked have no explanation for Canaan’s curse and end up claiming that God curses children for the sins of their fathers. They also end up believing that multi-generational curses can be levied for mere sight of something that naturally occurs in human beings (nakedness). They also violate their own interpretation rules with candor. The facts point to Canaan being the result of an incestuous relationship between Noah’s wife and Ham.

    In fact, we see this event repeated in the Bible elsewhere.

    Lot's Daughters get Lot drunk and they take advantage of him and they get pregnant. God destroyed both the nations (offspring) of the result of Canaan and from the two daughters of Lot. Death is the punishment for incest according to God's Word (Leviticus 20:11).


    Source Used:
    was Canaan the child of Ham and Noah’s wife

    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  2. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    Interesting
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I think when people read this text, they will have the hardest time with this interpretation because of these words in verse 21,

    "...and he [Noah] was uncovered within his tent" (Gen 9:21).

    But they have to realize that he (Noah) more than likely got frisky with his wife because he was drunk. In fact, it is possible she even had a little wine, and possibly got drunk, too. In either case, Noah was passed out drunk and Ham took advantage of his own mother and Canaan was the result or offspring (By which Noah cursed).

    So the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle fit together.


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  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thank you.
    Another believer had point me in this direction (a long time ago).
    And so I then researched about it.


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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Another interesting thing that needs to be pointed out is that Noah did not have any more sons after this. Noah lived for many, many more years and did not have any more children.

    Very odd. Yet, it makes sense in light of what happened.


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  6. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think this is incorrect.

    The nakendness of thy father's wife = thy father's nakedness

    thy father's wife's nakedness = thy father's nakedness

    By shaming your father's wife, you shame your father
     
  7. Victory-N-Christ

    Victory-N-Christ God:Mighty -N-Power!!

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    There he lay: passed out drunk and in the all together:
    Wow what a thing to imagine.
    All this time I thought Noah laid the heavy curse on Ham because he'd seen him like this ..and was humiliated and mad about it.
    So it was about Ham and his mom?
    But like someone else said...it's an interesting take on the story..
     
  8. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Assuming all that is accurate, and that's a big assumption, how could Noah possibly curse Canaan by name the very next day, since it says he did so after waking from his wine?
     
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  9. Victory-N-Christ

    Victory-N-Christ God:Mighty -N-Power!!

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    Yeah..
     
  10. Victory-N-Christ

    Victory-N-Christ God:Mighty -N-Power!!

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    Hey maybe one of the other brothers ratted him out after Noah sobered up.I mean Ham did tell them what he'd seen...
     
  11. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Well, he's proposing Canaan was the offspring of this incident. Either Noah was drunk for many months on end, or Canaan was already there. I've been married a lot of years and had a number of kids, and I know for a fact the mornings after, I wasn't calling any children possibly just conceived by name. That would have been a really neat trick.
     
  12. Vyrzaharak

    Vyrzaharak Member

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    So very interesting!
     
  13. Victory-N-Christ

    Victory-N-Christ God:Mighty -N-Power!!

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    Yes that would have been a neat trick.Well I've never thought about the Noah and Ham story in the way that it's presented in the OP.
    It has given me a different way to look at it.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    What? A hangover just causes labored thinking.
    Cursing is not uncommon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There is a lapse in time between verses 24 and 25. The lapse in time can be explained as would a normal storyteller would use lapses in time. In Matthew 3:13, Jesus appears, out of nowhere and fully grown. The last time Mathew had talked about him, Jesus was just a child (See Matthew 2). Nowhere is there a development transition. It is normal to skip large segments of time in telling of many stories (Especially in the Bible).

    Gen 9:24 “And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

    ***[A Lapse or a Gap in Time]***
    Gen 9:25 "And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

    Gen 9:26 "And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”

    (Genesis 9:24-26).​
    ‭‭

    Source used:
    was Canaan the child of Ham and Noah’s wife
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  16. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    So Ham wanted his brothers to join him in his folly and their solution was to back in and cover Mrs Noah up ? I don't buy that Mrs Noah was involved ..
     
  17. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    There is an OT verse that instructs not to build steps at/to the alter (why) because someone may see under your robe . That seems serious but simple enough with out reading in more than it says. I do appreciate your pov though ..
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Also, it is common in our culture to choose names for a baby before a baby is even born and or conceived. I know me and my wife have names picked out for our first future children after we were married and we still talk about it (despite her not even being pregnant yet). Perhaps Ham was telling Noah (his father) what he was gong to call his next son.

    Another scenario (which I am seeing as the more likely scenario) is that God gave Noah a vision or dream of what was to happen. After all, the text says Noah woke up and he KNEW what his younger son had done unto him ("him" or Noah: as in reference to Ham hurting his father by his evil conquest or violation of his wife).

    Remember, God told Noah about the future once before. Surely it makes sense that God would still be speaking to him.

    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So you think it is a coincidence that the Bible language in Leviticus 18:7 is totally unrelated to Genesis 9 even though this phrase is used several times repeatedly in Genesis 9?

    Also, why curse Canaan for something Ham did? It makes no sense.

    Also, looking at one's dad naked and or taking advantage of one's dad (being son) would not be something to gloat about to the other two sons (unless they were strange like him).

    Nothing adds up and makes any sense with the other popular interpretations.


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  20. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    What do you think about the sin that doomed all mankind to spiritual death , what was it ? Some preach it was sex with the snake ^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^ .
     
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