So....what if your wrong?

[Daniel Martinovich]

The whole of scripture spoke of an age of promise where circumstances in nations were such that believers could gain the opportunity to have the earthly promises of God made to a thousand generations of saints fulfilled in their lives. Promises that never saw their fulfillment in the lives of those generations of saints. Along with other prophecies, Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7 told us exactly when that age would begin. When the 4th of four Gentile empires named in scripture came to an end. The Roman Empire was the 4th and did not end until what had been its capitol since 333 AD, Constantinople was conquered and the last Roman Emperor killed in 1453 AD.

Only God truly knew what tool would finally give his people the power to overcome a world completely ruled by evil through despotic human government. What would bring about the change in peoples hearts necessary to overcome evil with good. That tool was the Bible in the hands of general population. This started happening immediately after the fall of that fourth empire. The Bible in the hands of the general population was the final instrument needed for the purpose of God relating to the promise of a world where righteousness dwells. The age hoped for by all those generations of saints that they could only sow the seeds necessary to bring it about; but could not have themselves. Then, the discovery of the America's, lands without modern empires 30 years after the after the age of the four gentile empires also provided a distant and safe haven for a Bible reading people. A base of operations from which God could spread his word which yields as its fruit the free world.

That is the good news. The bad news is his purpose in the earth has been greatly hampered by his peoples acceptance of false prophecy in the guise of end time prophecy teachings. False prophecy that by its very nature is designed to stifle the personal development necessary in individuals to enable them to accomplish all of Gods purposes in their lives. Which is service capable of overcoming evil in powerful places and grows the moral and free world. But false prophecy, just as it is designed to do, has robbed the vast majority of Gods people of the scriptural vision of the future necessary to personally developed in such a way as to be even remotely capable of doing ones part in Christ to crush the evils of our generation with good. To be that mountain of influence that is higher than all the mountains in the earth. Instead the Biblically illiterate application of the end time prophecies of the Old Covenant Age and the Age of the Four Gentile Empires to this Age of Promise as some kind of an end of the world apocalyptic scenario has caused Gods people to spiritually, intellectually and physically retreat into a false hope that Jesus will come some day and set up a physical\visible kingdom. Which of course requires nothing on their part to bring to pass.

Yet the world God did envision in his Word, prophesy about and promise requires everything from his people and those who ally themselves with them to bring to pass. It is his providence at work. We can accept the truth and the sure prophetic word of scripture and work with that. Or, we can accept false prophecy in the guise of pop culture end time teachings and reap what we sow. The wicked will reign and rule over us and seize the inheritance of the saints, which is this world, for themselves. Now I'm not saying Gods plan will fail. But I am saying he will just let generations die in the wilderness until he finds some that will trust him , trust his Word and work with him to enter into that promised land.

 

[Douggg]

Or, we can accept false prophecy in the guise of pop culture

Please give and example of what you are referring to.

 

[Lost4words]

The whole of scripture spoke of an age of promise where circumstances in nations were such that believers could gain the opportunity to have the earthly promises of God made to a thousand generations of saints fulfilled in their lives. Promises that never saw their fulfillment in the lives of those generations of saints. Along with other prophecies, Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7 told us exactly when that age would begin. When the 4th of four Gentile empires named in scripture came to an end. The Roman Empire was the 4th and did not end until what had been its capitol since 333 AD, Constantinople was conquered and the last Roman Emperor killed in 1453 AD.

Only God truly knew what tool would finally give his people the power to overcome a world completely ruled by evil through despotic human government. What would bring about the change in peoples hearts necessary to overcome evil with good. That tool was the Bible in the hands of general population. This started happening immediately after the fall of that fourth empire. The Bible in the hands of the general population was the final instrument needed for the purpose of God relating to the promise of a world where righteousness dwells. The age hoped for by all those generations of saints that they could only sow the seeds necessary to bring it about; but could not have themselves. Then, the discovery of the America's, lands without modern empires 30 years after the after the age of the four gentile empires also provided a distant and safe haven for a Bible reading people. A base of operations from which God could spread his word which yields as its fruit the free world.

That is the good news. The bad news is his purpose in the earth has been greatly hampered by his peoples acceptance of false prophecy in the guise of end time prophecy teachings. False prophecy that by its very nature is designed to stifle the personal development necessary in individuals to enable them to accomplish all of Gods purposes in their lives. Which is service capable of overcoming evil in powerful places and grows the moral and free world. But false prophecy, just as it is designed to do, has robbed the vast majority of Gods people of the scriptural vision of the future necessary to personally developed in such a way as to be even remotely capable of doing ones part in Christ to crush the evils of our generation with good. To be that mountain of influence that is higher than all the mountains in the earth. Instead the Biblically illiterate application of the end time prophecies of the Old Covenant Age and the Age of the Four Gentile Empires to this Age of Promise as some kind of an end of the world apocalyptic scenario has caused Gods people to spiritually, intellectually and physically retreat into a false hope that Jesus will come some day and set up a physical\visible kingdom. Which of course requires nothing on their part to bring to pass.

Yet the world God did envision in his Word, prophesy about and promise requires everything from his people and those who ally themselves with them to bring to pass. It is his providence at work. We can accept the truth and the sure prophetic word of scripture and work with that. Or, we can accept false prophecy in the guise of pop culture end time teachings and reap what we sow. The wicked will reign and rule over us and seize the inheritance of the saints, which is this world, for themselves. Now I'm not saying Gods plan will fail. But I am saying he will just let generations die in the wilderness until he finds some that will trust him , trust his Word and work with him to enter into that promised land.

Interesting. So, what do you think is going to happen?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Please give and example of what you are referring to.

I said a mouthful. I think enough to ask the question. What if your wrong?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Interesting. So, what do you think is going to happen?

As far as specific events. I don’t know, I’m not a prophet. As far as the general direction the world takes. Even if there are downward spikes and world wars. The influence of God’s invisible government, his people, his word, it’s principle will continue to grow in the world. To what extent I know not. But i know it will not be stopped and Bible based morality and freedom will continue to grow.

It’s just sad, disheartening that most of Gods people are not intelligently on board that train.

 

[Lost4words]

As far as specific events. I don’t know, I’m not a prophet. As far as the general direction the world takes. Even if there are downward spikes and world wars. The influence of God’s invisible government, his people, his word, it’s principle will continue to grow in the world. To what extent I know not. But i know it will not be stopped and Bible based morality and freedom will continue to grow.

It’s just sad, disheartening that most of Gods people are not intelligently on board that train.

Thing is, there are so many end times experts.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Thing is, there are so many end times experts.

Lol, true. But I’m the anti end times expert. My sorrow is watching ground gained by past generations lost because the saints have forsaken the battle. They think the ground they are losing is because it’s “the end times.” When in reality, it’s being lost because they are no match for the wicked. God cannot develope them as individuals into all he wants them to be because they are filled with lies about the future that have to be exposed and rejected before he can do his thing in their hearts.

 

[Lost4words]

Lol, true. But I’m the anti end times expert. My sorrow is watching ground gained by past generations lost because the saints have forsaken the battle. They think the ground they are losing is because it’s “the end times.” When in reality, it’s being lost because they are no match for the wicked. God cannot develope them as individuals into all he wants them to be because they are filled with lies about the future that have to be exposed and rejected before he can do his thing in their hearts.

I like to believe i am a partial preterist. I dont see 'end times' like many on here do or teach.

I believe most of Revelation has passed. Jesus came. Jesus conquered. He gave us a way to the Father. We have to believe in Jesus and what He taught. He did not die in vein. He rose in triumph.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The whole of scripture spoke of an age of promise where circumstances in nations were such that believers could gain the opportunity to have the earthly promises of God made to a thousand generations of saints fulfilled in their lives. Promises that never saw their fulfillment in the lives of those generations of saints. Along with other prophecies, Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7 told us exactly when that age would begin. When the 4th of four Gentile empires named in scripture came to an end. The Roman Empire was the 4th and did not end until what had been its capitol since 333 AD, Constantinople was conquered and the last Roman Emperor killed in 1453 AD.

Only God truly knew what tool would finally give his people the power to overcome a world completely ruled by evil through despotic human government. What would bring about the change in peoples hearts necessary to overcome evil with good. That tool was the Bible in the hands of general population. This started happening immediately after the fall of that fourth empire. The Bible in the hands of the general population was the final instrument needed for the purpose of God relating to the promise of a world where righteousness dwells. The age hoped for by all those generations of saints that they could only sow the seeds necessary to bring it about; but could not have themselves. Then, the discovery of the America's, lands without modern empires 30 years after the after the age of the four gentile empires also provided a distant and safe haven for a Bible reading people. A base of operations from which God could spread his word which yields as its fruit the free world.

That is the good news. The bad news is his purpose in the earth has been greatly hampered by his peoples acceptance of false prophecy in the guise of end time prophecy teachings. False prophecy that by its very nature is designed to stifle the personal development necessary in individuals to enable them to accomplish all of Gods purposes in their lives. Which is service capable of overcoming evil in powerful places and grows the moral and free world. But false prophecy, just as it is designed to do, has robbed the vast majority of Gods people of the scriptural vision of the future necessary to personally developed in such a way as to be even remotely capable of doing ones part in Christ to crush the evils of our generation with good. To be that mountain of influence that is higher than all the mountains in the earth. Instead the Biblically illiterate application of the end time prophecies of the Old Covenant Age and the Age of the Four Gentile Empires to this Age of Promise as some kind of an end of the world apocalyptic scenario has caused Gods people to spiritually, intellectually and physically retreat into a false hope that Jesus will come some day and set up a physical\visible kingdom. Which of course requires nothing on their part to bring to pass.

Yet the world God did envision in his Word, prophesy about and promise requires everything from his people and those who ally themselves with them to bring to pass. It is his providence at work. We can accept the truth and the sure prophetic word of scripture and work with that. Or, we can accept false prophecy in the guise of pop culture end time teachings and reap what we sow. The wicked will reign and rule over us and seize the inheritance of the saints, which is this world, for themselves. Now I'm not saying Gods plan will fail. But I am saying he will just let generations die in the wilderness until he finds some that will trust him , trust his Word and work with him to enter into that promised land.

You were doing pretty well till you attempted to interpret Gods word then you went aray.
Time to ask yourself a question.
What if your wrong and you are misleading someone?

 

[shilohsfoal]

As far as specific events. I don’t know, I’m not a prophet. As far as the general direction the world takes. Even if there are downward spikes and world wars. The influence of God’s invisible government, his people, his word, it’s principle will continue to grow in the world. To what extent I know not. But i know it will not be stopped and Bible based morality and freedom will continue to grow.

It’s just sad, disheartening that most of Gods people are not intelligently on board that train.

Why wouldnt you know whats going to happen?
Hasnt God sent enough prophets testifying of coming events for you to know something?

 

[keras]

I said a mouthful. I think enough to ask the question. What if your wrong?

Basically, you are saying that what the Bible prophets tell us; is wrong. I assume you agree with the Way of Salvation, but you reject the Prophetic Word.

Will the world just continue on, more or less as we are now? Or will there be a 'reset of Civilization' similar to what happened in Noah's time?
I believe the latter, God did destroy the ante-diluvial peoples and He says He will do it again; this time with fire.
It seems that Noah's society was quite similar to our own today. Just getting on with life as normal. But the similarity that both societies have that our Creator God cannot allow to continue, is how the majority of the people have no regard for and ignore their Maker.
Humans are like self drive cars that have gone off every which way!

A non Christian may ask; Why are we here? They fail to read God's Word that states His intention: To have a people who believe in the Creator God and have chosen of their free will, to keep His Commandments. They will be the ones who will go with God into Eternity, the rest of mankind will not. Revelation 20:11-15
Malachi 3:16-18 Those who feared the Lord talked together and the Lord paid heed and listened. A record was Written before Him of those who feared His and respected His Name.
They will be Mine, says the Lord of Hosts, My own precious possession on the Day that I appoint, for I shall spare them as a man spares the son who serves him.
Once more it will be known who are righteous and who are wicked, between the servant of God and those who do not serve Him.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I like to believe i am a partial preterist. I dont see 'end times' like many on here do or teach.

I believe most of Revelation has passed. Jesus came. Jesus conquered. He gave us a way to the Father. We have to believe in Jesus and what He taught. He did not die in vein. He rose in triumph.

Like the Preterists say. We are all Partial Preterists because we all believe some Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. I don't subscribe to the label though.
The important thing is, our vision for the future. What kind of a world do we believe God is trying to build? Do we have scripture for that belief? Or are we just rejecting the scripture: John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn (judge and pass sentence) the world; but that the world through him might be saved. The world is not going to inherit eternal life. So it is obviously referring to saved in the general sense. As in preserved and healed which implies transformation. Because wickedness in and of itself will destroy it. By the way how is he going to accomplish this? Or how is he accomplishing it? Says in the previous verse. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Through the transformation of individuals who , if you tie it to the next verse already quoted, in turn influence others.


I am just going to venture a guess that what you do not think is not fulfilled in Revelation is chapters 20-22. Or 21-22. If I'm right. Check out these three chapters in Isaiah about the New Jerusalem.
The Bride of Christ

 

[David Kent]

Please give and example of what you are referring to.

Well I didn't write the OP but I would say futurism in general and didpensationalism in particular

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Why wouldnt you know whats going to happen?
Hasnt God sent enough prophets testifying of coming events for you to know something?

Well that is a tricky subject for reasons I already alluded to. If you are talking about present day prophets. When God speaks to a prophet the prophet only relate to what he said and repeat what he said in the light that they have. If their spirits, (the human spirit) is already filled with false prophecy about the future. If they have already, and almost all do by default accept the variant pop culture end time teachings as gospel. Then we have a problem. It means every thing they see or hear whether it is God or not will quite naturally be perverted to fit into what they think is the truth.
Actually it is quite worse than just that scenario. Christians do not like to hear about how much Satan can influnce us. It's a painful subject. Yet, the totality of his access to us. To our hearts is based on the truths or lies we accept. Therefore. When we accept these falsehoods about the future in these variant pop culture end time teachings. We open the door wide open to him to give us visions and dreams and other such things as God. This is true whether we are real Christians or not. God doesn't allow it. We do. That is the power given to us. To close the door to him by accepting the truth or open it by accepting lies. Same goes for your study of the Word and the "revelation" you gain from it. Hurts doesn't it?

 

[Revealing Times]

Lol, true. But I’m the anti end times expert. My sorrow is watching ground gained by past generations lost because the saints have forsaken the battle. They think the ground they are losing is because it’s “the end times.” When in reality, it’s being lost because they are no match for the wicked. God cannot develope them as individuals into all he wants them to be because they are filled with lies about the future that have to be exposed and rejected before he can do his thing in their hearts.

Maybe this is all in your mind 150-250 years ago we had more people percentage wise, in America/England/Europe that were Christians, but far less world wide. We evangelized much of the world as God commands. What I think you see is a "greater divide". The Christian Church has received the latter downpouring of rains or outpouring prophesied by Joel. Thus we have gotten closer to God but we have also become more fractured from society, and likewise the world has become more evil, like in the days of Noah, they call good evil and evil good, we are living in Romans 1 as we speak, so of course the society has become courser but the Church has also become, IMHO, closer to God as per the REAL Church, not the false religious types as per the David Koresh's and Jim Jones of the world.

As per Prophecy and the question, What if you are wrong ? No man of the Spirit should have to ask that question, the Spirit testifies of the Spirit. As soon as someone speaks I know it's of God or not. Likewise, why wouldn't a man filled with the Spirit understand your question to be a false premise ? There is no WHAT IF............either we are of God and hear Him or we aren't. Now there are Christians who are defeated and run down and confused etc. ec. But I understand that also, I can see and understand that Spirit also.

Christians who know how to hear the Holy Spirit shouldn't be wrong, the problem is many were not called to Prophecy and are therefore working outside of their calling. They offer "THEIR BELIEF" as factual understandings thereby living in error.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

You were doing pretty well till you attempted to interpret Gods word then you went aray.
Time to ask yourself a question.
What if your wrong and you are misleading someone?

If I'm wrong and people take heed to my words. I'll be guilty of inspiring them to do things perhaps outside of Gods' will for them. For instance. I might inspire many to get involved in politics and to bring a little more righteousness to the field that is greatly lacking. I might be guilty of inspiring some to get elected to their school boards and voting the LBGTP crowed out. Or I might be guilty of inspiring an officer in military who is thinking of getting out because of the wickedness being imposed on the armed services to dedicate his life to rise to the level of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff with a heart to bring Biblical principle for the military back to it. Or maybe, when the time is ripe for it my words might inspire Chinese Christians to see their nation through to becoming the worlds largest Christian nation. Who then become the worlds policeman.

But see, since I cant do any of this. All my words can do is to open the door to all kinds of possibilities and callings that Christians who believe its the end times don't know exist for them and therefore are not prepared to prepare or even personally hear from God about such things. I mean, there was a time when most Christians believed if God wants to save the heathen he will go to them and the people who thought they should go in his name were being presumptuous. But that was Gods inspiration upon those who went without the blessing of the viewpoint by consensus. They had to throw off the lie that God didn't want people to do that in the first place to then hear from God about themselves personally.

But if your wrong? Here is the promised land laying before you and no one is preparing themselves to take it. The wilderness is Gods will and then the end times.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well that is a tricky subject for reasons I already alluded to. If you are talking about present day prophets. When God speaks to a prophet the prophet only relate to what he said and repeat what he said in the light that they have. If their spirits, (the human spirit) is already filled with false prophecy about the future. If they have already, and almost all do by default accept the variant pop culture end time teachings as gospel. Then we have a problem. It means every thing they see or hear whether it is God or not will quite naturally be perverted to fit into what they think is the truth.
Actually it is quite worse than just that scenario. Christians do not like to hear about how much Satan can influnce us. It's a painful subject. Yet, the totality of his access to us. To our hearts is based on the truths or lies we accept. Therefore. When we accept these falsehoods about the future in these variant pop culture end time teachings. We open the door wide open to him to give us visions and dreams and other such things as God. This is true whether we are real Christians or not. God doesn't allow it. We do. That is the power given to us. To close the door to him by accepting the truth or open it by accepting lies. Same goes for your study of the Word and the "revelation" you gain from it. Hurts doesn't it?

I was actually talking about bible prophets.Not people who interpret bible prophets.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If I'm wrong and people take heed to my words. I'll be guilty of inspiring them to do things perhaps outside of Gods' will for them. For instance. I might inspire many to get involved in politics and to bring a little more righteousness to the field that is greatly lacking. I might be guilty of inspiring some to get elected to their school boards and voting the LBGTP crowed out. Or I might be guilty of inspiring an officer in military who is thinking of getting out because of the wickedness being imposed on the armed services to dedicate his life to rise to the level of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff with a heart to bring Biblical principle for the military back to it. Or maybe, when the time is ripe for it my words might inspire Chinese Christians to see their nation through to becoming the worlds largest Christian nation. Who then become the worlds policeman.

But see, since I cant do any of this. All my words can do is to open the door to all kinds of possibilities and callings that Christians who believe its the end times don't know exist for them and therefore are not prepared to prepare or even personally hear from God about such things. I mean, there was a time when most Christians believed if God wants to save the heathen he will go to them and the people who thought they should go in his name were being presumptuous. But that was Gods inspiration upon those who went without the blessing of the viewpoint by consensus. They had to throw off the lie that God didn't want people to do that in the first place to then hear from God about themselves personally.

But if your wrong? Here is the promised land laying before you and no one is preparing themselves to take it. The wilderness is Gods will and then the end times.

Here is the promised land???
I recieved the holy spirit Aug 31,1998.
Im not in the promised land.
Someday i hope to cast a line in the dead sea though.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Maybe this is all in your mind 150-250 years ago we had more people percentage wise, in America/England/Europe that were Christians, but far less world wide. We evangelized much of the world as God commands. What I think you see is a "greater divide". The Christian Church has received the latter down rains or outpouring prophesied by Joel. Thus we have gotten closer to God but we have also become more fractured from society, and likewise the world has become more evil, like i the days of Noah, they call good evil and evil good, we are living in Romans 1 as we speak, so of course the society has become courser but the Church has also become, IMHO, closer to God as per the REAL Church, not the false religious types as per the David Koresh's and Jim Jones of the world.

As per Prophecy and the question, What if you are wrong ? No man of the Spirit should have to ask that question, the Spirit testifies of the Spirit. As soon as someone speaks I know of its of God or not. Likewise, why wouldn't a man filled with the Spirit understand you question to be a false premise ? There is no WHAT IF............either we are of God and hear Him or we aren't. Now there are Christians who are defeated and run down and confused etc. ec. But I understand that also, I can see and understand that Spirit also.

Christians who know how to hear the Holy Spirit shouldn't be wrong, the problem is many were not called to Prophecy and are therefore working outside of their calling. They offer "THEIR BELIEF" as factual understandings thereby living in error.

Well, I don't know where you have been. But a billion people have accepted Christ in the last 50 years. If the trend continues 2 billion more will in the next 20-30 years. People have no idea how that is going to effect the world as a whole. I mean I know. But people don't. Not that I am smarter than them, i'm not. It's just that is not something they are not considering and I am. But to your issue about the Holy Spirit. We are not just born of the Holy Spirit but of the Word, the truth.
1st Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Actually the water in this verse is a reference to the Word. The washing of the water of the word.
This is my main point and the problem of being so wrong. The effects of receiving a lie as gospel, false prophecy concerning the future. Your now actually NOT born of the Word in that area and therefore your growth in grace, at least in that area comes to a stop until God can get you to reject the lie and accept the truth. It is a simple as this. With what would you resist Satan with if you have already opened the door to him in your life by accepting a false teaching? How is the Holy Spirit going to tell you its not him but the devil talking to you or giving you that "revelation" from the Bible? The answer is he is not going to be able to and in many cases won't even really try. He uses other means. Like what I am doing right now to you.

Just an fyi. I spent 20 years praying 2 hours a day in the Spirit. Fasted and prayed regularly. Had the Word practically memorized. I'm just saying I've seen it, heard it all and experienced it as far as spiritual things are concerned and the Holy Spirit. No one gets to claim, "the Holy Spirit wouldn't let me be led astray. I'm to close to him for that to happen." Dangerous ground.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Here is the promised land???
I recieved the holy spirit Aug 31,1998.
Im not in the promised land.
Someday i hope to cast a line in the dead sea though.

Lol, That is a pretty narrow vision. God's is a tad bit bigger.
Matt. 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
And again, keep this within my context. Either this is going to happen because the saints are so influential that the world accepts their judgements of right and wrong, (the saints shall judge the world.) That nations order their affairs according to varying degrees Biblical principle. (Which has been happening for centuries.) Problem is the saints have to believe that this is their responsibility and with Gods guidance and help possible. It's what they'd have to believe the Bible prophesied would happen. That it is the the way where there would be a world where righteousness exists.

Or it will happen according to the various pop culture end time teachings where Jesus comes back riding a white horse and supernaturally imposes righteousness on the world. In which case our only real mandate is winning the lost so they can go to heaven.

Problem is; What if I'm right? What kind of effect are these end time doctrines having on the saints? On their personal growth in grace? Seeing how they have accepted false prophecy about their futures as gospel truth. It didn't end well for ancient Israel when they did this.