So there's this lady! :D

[Hikarifuru]

I've been divorced for about 2 years now, my sexuality is like a big circus with flying clowns and monkeys and giraffes. Untill the last few months I didn't want to ever try again because my ex wife hurt me so badly and destroyed me emotionally. Thankfully i had a good counselor and I'm doing a lot better now. I like myself again.

I met this lady we ended up talking about everything from god to the news to cats. She's religious and comes from a battered past, she was the subject of a lot of emotional abuse as well.

We've been to dinner twice, I'm an extremely caring and nurturing person, I'm a very good listener and very encouraging. If you're my friend I'll defend you from all evil and cry with you as long as you need me too.

She's a very very loving person too. I haven't had a female who really tried to reach out to me and care about me in my life in a long time. She's smart and she's seen some of my insecurities and wounds and she tried to help me mend them.

I think im falling for her and she really likes me too. She knows im not religious and she knows why and she knows that im afraid that I'll never be like her in regard to our beliefs. She knows about my sexuality and she knows why I am this way. I know she's religious and I know why.

But... she says im special and that im a wonderful person. She likes me, she cares about what I think and how I feel. I haven't had someone like this in so long, or ever really. She hasn't had anyone care for her or listen to her to appreciate her or encourage her or defend her in so long and I do that because that's what friends are for.

I think im falling for this religious lady and I think she really likes me too. I'm not sure it's wise. It seems reckless, like a moth into the flame... but she isn't asking me to change, she tells me to be myself and she encourages me to be happy and free. No one else in my real life does that for me.

"I want to be with you right now, anyway, reckless? So what? I can't wait to be around you"
Celldweller - I can't wait

As christians, what do you think?

 

[Albion]

I've been divorced for about 2 years now, my sexuality is like a big circus with flying clowns and monkeys and giraffes. Untill the last few months I didn't want to ever try again because my ex wife hurt me so badly and destroyed me emotionally. Thankfully i had a good counselor and I'm doing a lot better now. I like myself again.

I met this lady we ended up talking about everything from god to the news to cats. She's religious and comes from a battered past, she was the subject of a lot of emotional abuse as well.

We went to dinner together after I bought the car and we talked about things. I'm an extremely caring and nurturing person, I'm a very good listener and very encouraging. If you're my friend I'll defend you from all evil and cry with you as long as you need me too.

Anyway, she's a very very loving person too. I haven't had a female who really tried to reach out to me and care about me in my life in a long time. She's smart and she's seen some of my insecurities and a wounds and she tried to help me mend them.

I think im falling for her and she really likes me too. She knows im not religious and she knows why and she knows that im afraid that I'll never be like her in regard to our beliefs. She knows about my sexuality and she knows why I am this way. I know she's religious and I know why.

But... she says im special and that im a wonderful person. She likes me, she cares about what I think and how I feel. I haven't had someone like this in so long, or ever really. She hasn't had anyone care for her or listen to her to appreciate her or encourage her or defend her in so long and I do that because that's what friends are for.

I think im falling for this religious lady and I think she really likes me too. I'm not sure it's wise. I seems reckless, like a moth into the flame... but she isn't asking me to change, she tells me to be myself and she encourages me to be happy and free. No one else in my real life does that for me.

"I want to be with you right now, anyway, reckless? So what? I can't wait to me around you"
Celldweller - I can't wait

As christians, what do you think?

How can I answer this...as a Christian? Should I act as though homosexual sexual relations and premarital sex are off the table, discussion wise? Or do I include that in the answer? I dunno. But you aren't asking for a discussion of that, either.

As for the woman you are describing, there's nothing inherently wrong with a non-sexual "caring" friendship, considering that both of you feel attracted to the other and there seems to be no deceit on the part of either of you.

 

[Hikarifuru]

How can I answer this...as a Christian? Should I act as though homosexual sexual relations and premarital sex are off the table, discussion wise? Or do I include that in the answer? I dunno. But you aren't asking for a discussion of that, either.

As for the woman you are describing, there's nothing inherently wrong with a non-sexual "caring" friendship, considering that both of you feel attracted to the other and there seems to be no deceit on the part of either of you.

As you've said I'm not asking anyone to endorse, support or encourage my sexuality or premarital sex or even talk about about it. I only noted it to display the contrast in who me and her are, I was say "... see, I'm not a Christian"

Premarital sex isn't a fundamental part of my hopes or relationship with her, but I am talking about a potentially romantic relationship that could one day lead to more.

 

[parsley]

What an uplifting experience. Bask in gratefulness for the oasis.

She hasn't had anyone care for her or listen to her to appreciate her or encourage her or defend her in so long and I do that because that's what friends are for.

(-:

Religious people are all very different, so how she lives does not necessarily match up with a book of doctrines. She is herself.

There are people who equate acceptance with sex, and don't feel quite approved until a certain level of contact is attained. Just because she tried to initiate the unexpected, doesn't mean you need to comply. How well do you know her? There are people who scam -- like the classic jilted pregnant woman who tries to claim the next guy is the father.

With two dinners and long conversations, you have probably built up trust and have a good sense of who she is. But try to keep an edge of sensibility about you, and listen to hunches and warnings that pop into your mind.

You know all the possible consequences of a more physical relationship; be sensible and thoughtful in your approach.

And enjoy what you have! She sounds nice.

 

[Hikarifuru]

What an uplifting experience. Bask in gratefulness for the oasis.
(-:

Religious people are all very different, so how she lives does not necessarily match up with a book of doctrines. She is herself.

There are people who equate acceptance with sex, and don't feel quite approved until a certain level of contact is attained. Just because she tried to initiate the unexpected, doesn't mean you need to comply. How well do you know her? There are people who scam -- like the classic jilted pregnant woman who tries to claim the next guy is the father.

With two dinners and long conversations, you have probably built up trust and have a good sense of who she is. But try to keep an edge of sensibility about you, and listen to hunches and warnings that pop into your mind.

You know all the possible consequences of a more physical relationship; be sensible and thoughtful in your approach.

And enjoy what you have! She sounds nice.

Well she has expressed that she isn't interested in sex atm and that's cool with me. My body craves sex but it's not something I need right now or expect a person to give me. Sex is so personal and intamite and delicate, far be it from me to scar it so by demanding it and from my dearest.

Yes I do keep in mind that I don't really know her THAT well yet and I need time for the masks to flake away, to see people in all lights and in different settings, to see her respond to different things. We both deserve to know who the other person really really is and not who they'd really like to be or who they really try to be. I don't think she's a scam artist, our conversations aren't structured or formatic enough to shelter that and she shares A LOT with me and she honestly doesn't ask anything from me.

 

[Albion]

As you've said I'm not asking anyone to endorse, support or encourage my sexuality or premarital sex or even talk about about it. I only noted it to display the contrast in who me and her are, I was say "... see, I'm not a Christian"

I know, but when you preface your question by asking us to reply "as a Christian..." it puts all of your post into play. I feel obligated not to act as though certain standards don't matter TO ME when I'm asked to answer with my own faith in mind--when you phrase your question that way.

Premarital sex isn't a fundamental part of my hopes or relationship with her,

That's what I thought.

but I am talking about a potentially romantic relationship that could one day lead to more.

You see, I've walked into a potential briar patch by taking on this highly-charged inquiry in the first place, but if I'm to do it, I have to give you an answer to the question you asked, not a bunch of roundabout philosophizing or anything off the subject.

Morally speaking, there is nothing wrong with such a relationship. There could be plenty that would be morally wrong if it developed in certain ways, but that's not the question at the moment. I think that you are right to worry about the "moth to the flame" aspect, but it is quite impossible to predict with certainty how the relationship would go, just that the next step, as you described things, wouldn't be wrong (or even rare).

 

[Hikarifuru]

Albion,

I understand and that's quite alright. You can speak freely and tell me what you believe, if I disagree or disapprove I'll keep it to myself. I'm aware of where I am and what the purpose of this forum is. No worries.

 

[parsley]

Okay, it was this that confused me-- I thought you were quoting her:

"I want to be with you right now, anyway, reckless? So what? I can't wait to be around you"
Celldweller - I can't wait

 

[Albion]

Albion,

I understand and that's quite alright. You can speak freely and tell me what you believe, if I disagree or disapprove I'll keep it to myself. I'm aware of where I am and the what the purpose of this forum is. No worries.

I know. You're a reasonable person and speaking with you is comfortable. And it certainly isn't expected that you'll keep your own values to yourself.

Anyway, I'm interested to see how the replies go and if there is anyone who would say that on moral grounds there is any reason for you not to go ahead. I don't think there is.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Okay, it was this that confused me-- I thought you were quoting her:

"I want to be with you right now, anyway, reckless? So what? I can't wait to be around you"
Celldweller - I can't wait

Oh no, that's a line from one of my fave songs.

 

[Tellastory]

Well she has expressed that she isn't interested in sex atm and that's cool with me. My body craves sex but it's not something I need right now or expect a person to give me. Sex is so personal and intamite and delicate, far be it from me to scar it so by demanding it and from my dearest.

Yes I do keep in mind that I don't really know her THAT well yet and I need time for the masks to flake away, to see people in all lights and in different settings, to see her respond to different things. We both deserve to know who the other person really really is and not who they'd really like to be or who they really try to be. I don't think she's a scam artist, our conversations aren't structured or formatic enough to shelter that and she shares A LOT with me and she honestly doesn't ask anything from me.

We all have our bad days, even you. I am sure there are times when you have done something or said something that was out of character or just not the norm for you to be doing or behaving as.

And there are some things we do not like about ourselves that try to drag us down and give in to wherein we do not care to be identified with.

And so I do not see how anyone can find out who someone really really is when all of this comes into play. Sometimes I wonder if that is the reason for this being part of the marriage ceremony: "For better or for worse..."

And.. although it could be humorous at times when having fun with the female gender, at other times, it can be downright infuriating which is this society's acceptance of the general rule that a woman is allowed to change her mind. So just when you get to pegging someone, that sinful woman may sense that and "change her mind" just to spite you.

Which is probably why men will never figure out women.

I even heard about a couple that has been married a long time and one day one says to the other, "I don't know you any more."

????

Like they have been living together for all that time, and one says that? Where has the other been?

You would think the other would respond with, "Who are you, and what have you done with my spouse?"

Another episode for "Supernatural" or.....??? I would think they could have fun with that one.

I digress, sorry.

Sometimes love just comes where you find yourself able to love the other no matter what, and just try to be a positive influence for the better part of the one you love to live the better part they want to be of themselves.

Of course, I find having Christ in me enabling me to love even my enemies seems to be the only way that I could do that.

 

[Hikarifuru]

I know. You're a reasonable person and speaking with you is comfortable. And it certainly isn't expected that you'll keep your own values to yourself.

Anyway, I'm interested to see how the replies go and if there is anyone who would say that on moral grounds there is any reason for you not to go ahead. I don't think there is.

Well im expecting to eventually hear the "dont be unequally yoked, she needs to leave you" and ill accept it gracefully.

I keep my opinions to myself since I know they are commonly contrary to the purpose of this forum.

 

[Quasicentennial]

If Adam and Eve remained obedient until this day, totally ignoring Satan disguised as a snake way back when, then Jesus would not have existed to take care of our Christian lives, and that we would, I assume, be an all-adult couple community as God would have continued to create adult couples from dust.
Jesus is a personal crisis expert and reacts positively to any negative life circumstance - that is the real reason why Jesus is superior than mankind, and by simply accepting him as your spiritual partner for life then you cannot go wrong as he lives spiritually in your heart, knowing that he knows all the secrets and correct wisdom understanding of the Word of God more than anyone else Christian, and will supernaturally give you the morally correct attitude towards Christ-righteousness, considering that as Christians we are constantly learning ambassadors of Christ: leaders and not crisis victims.
If all else fails then Jesus is always there, provided that Jesus gives all non-Christians more time to think strongly about Christ acceptance before his Second Coming 'nobody knows when' return.'"*'".

 

[Albion]

Well im expecting to eventually hear the "dont be unequally yoked, she needs to leave you" and ill accept it gracefully.

Hmm. I don't see how the "unequally yoked" verse applies to you, and you weren't asking us what she should do. Besides, there is a long way to go before any "yoked" would develop, if ever, and, as I said before, you asked about what to do now, not for speculation about which of many possible scenarios might follow in time. Besides, you described her as "religious," so I didn't presume that she's a practicing Christian.

 

[Hikarifuru]

We all have our bad days, even you. I am sure there are times when you have done something or said something that was out of character or just not the norm for you to be doing or behaving as.

And there are some things we do not like about ourselves that try to drag us down and give in to wherein we do not care to be identified with.

And so I do not see how anyone can find out who someone really really is when all of this comes into play. Sometimes I wonder if that is the reason for this being part of the marriage ceremony: "For better or for worse..."

And.. although it could be humorous at times when having fun with the female gender, at other times, it can be downright infuriating which is this society's acceptance of the general rule that a woman is allowed to change her mind. So just when you get to pegging someone, that sinful woman may sense that and "change her mind" just to spite you.

Which is probably why men will never figure out women.

I even heard about a couple that has been married a long time and one day one says to the other, "I don't know you any more."

????

Like they have been living together for all that time, and one says that? Where has the other been?

You would think the other would respond with, "Who are you, and what have you done with my spouse?"

Another episode for "Supernatural" or.....??? I would think they could have fun with that one.

I digress, sorry.

Sometimes love just comes where you find yourself able to love the other no matter what, and just try to be a positive influence for the better part of the one you love to live the better part they want to be of themselves.

Of course, I find having Christ in me enabling me to love even my enemies seems to be the only way that I could do that.

Well what I mean by knowing the person you're with is that secrets are destructive to a romantic relationship, they embody and represent ruptures in the fabric of our love and trust. There is a reason those things are secrets and need to stay that way and in such cases the relationship is never what it appears to be, the person is not what they appear to be. That it needs to stay hidden displays a serious need even if this done in an attempt to protect the other person, the need for such protection displays a very destructive thing... a danger, a violence, a fear and it's within a marriage, that simply doesn't work. It's not congruent to what love and marriage and romance is supposed to be. We deserve to have all things laid bare before us before we make commitments or serious investments in this area.

I understand that people are volatile and imperfect and make mistakes, rising and falling, accepting this is knowing them, even if it remains a bit nonpredictable. Accepting this, not needing to hide this allows for greater intamicy.

I'm simply saying that secrets are very bad, I don't believe they should ever exist in a romance or marriage and if they need to exist then there are deeper problems that will eventually rot the love from the inside. No secrets and no need for secrets, full acceptance of ourselves and our partners.

Oh and women being able to change their mind at any moment is only right, anything else is based on the most barbaric and sexist of systems, no matter how inconvienent it seems to those bothered by this simple human freedom. A person who says a woman shouldn't change her mind during sex is providing that a woman's body is his to use, its reducing women to far less than people. A woman changing her mind during sex isn't even a significant action, anyone who feels misused by such an action needs some serious education on equality and human rights.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Hmm. I don't see how the "unequally yoked" verse applies to you, and you weren't asking us what she should do. Besides, there is a long way to go before any "yoked" would develop, if ever, and, as I said before, you asked about what to do now, not for speculation about which of many possible scenarios might follow in time. Besides, you described her as "religious," so I didn't presume that she's a practicing Christian.

Oh I see, well yes she is a Christian. Sorry, Christianity is the only religion I encounter on a regular basis and I use Christian and religious on this forum interchangeably sometimes.

 

[Tellastory]

Well what I mean by knowing the person you're with is that secrets are destructive to a romantic relationship, they embody and represent ruptures in the fabric of our love and trust. There is a reason those things are secrets and need to stay that way and in such cases the relationship is never what it appears to be, the person is not what they appear to be. That it needs to stay hidden displays a serious need even if this done in an attempt to protect the other person, the need for such protection displays a very destructive thing... a danger, a violence, a fear and it's within a marriage, that simply doesn't work. It's not congruent to what love and marriage and romance is supposed to be. We deserve to have all things laid before before us before we make commitments or serious investments in this area.

I understand that people are volatile and imperfect and make mistakes, rising and falling, accepting this is knowing them, even if it remains a bit nonpredictable. Accepting this, not needing to hide this allows for greater intamicy.

I'm simply saying that secrets are very bad, I don't believe they should ever exist in a romance or marriage and if they need to exist then there are deeper problems that will eventually rot the love from the inside. No secrets and no need for secrets, full acceptance of ourselves and our partners.

I can accept what you are saying as reasonable and rational in that regards but life has a way of throwing a couple in a situation that neither has gone through before that may bring out the worse in them. From that same situation, a couple may find their relationship ending and another may find their relationship getting stronger. One can theorize as to how that can be, but it happens.

Oh and women being able to change their mind at any moment is only right, anything else is based on the most barbaric and sexist of systems, no matter how inconvienent it seems to those bothered by this simple human freedom. A person who says a woman shouldn't change her mind during sex is providing that a woman's body is his to use, its reducing women to far less than people. A woman changing her mind during sex isn't even a significant action, anyone who feels misused by such an action needs some serious education on equality and human rights.

Of course, per the example you have given, I understand the carefulness for men not to be an overbearing macho man or acting like a tyrant in anything, let alone the bed scene.

But with all things seemingly being equal in society; when a man change his mind, look out. Seems the woman has something to protest about that, and nag the man to death or give him the silent treatment until he changes his mind back.

Respect is a two way street, but often times than not, a domineering woman will be leading in the dance purposefully and yet chastise the man for taking the backseat to everything when the man is just trying to avoid stepping on her toes. As much as feminist wants men to treat them as partners, what they are really complaining about is that the women wants to lead. And I have seen men loving their wives so much that they allow them to lead and take the abuse for not leading, even though they are offended when the wives debase them in public or behind their backs.

This is one point about changing their minds that is infuriating because they want to lead but make the men pay the consequences for letting them lead as if they would let them lead at all.

I reckon my argument is really against blind hypocrisey rather than about the woman changing her mind.

 

[Albion]

Oh I see, well yes she is a Christian. Sorry, Christianity is the only religion I encounter on a regular basis and I use Christian and religious on this forum interchangeably sometimes.

OK. I probably should have presumed that for the obvious reasons, but a lot of people these days talk about being 'religious' or 'spiritual' when they mean only that they have some personal conviction that there's a higher power, etc. I don't think it changes anything in what I wrote about the "yoked together" verse.

And BTW, a lot of people who are well educated in this stuff think that it's the "unequally" part of that verse that is the key to its meaning, not just that two people are of different beliefs. In other words, it's if the one is squelching the other's ability to believe and worship as he thinks he ought.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Tellastory

I can accept what you are saying as reasonable and rational in that regards but life has a way of throwing a couple in a situation that neither has gone through before that may bring out the worse in them. From that same situation, a couple may find their relationship ending and another may find their relationship getting stronger. One can theorize as to how that can be, but it happens.

Oh indeed, accepting this possibility is part of not keeping secrets or forcing an image that isn't true

About the hypocrisy

I think I understand and agree, though I think when such things emerge a breach in honesty and acceptance and embrace has already been made. I think when these sort of things happen the truth must be presented and we must accept ourselves and our partners and end the relationship if that is desired. I refuse to ever fight with a future spouse or lover again, if it gets that far something deep inside is seriously wrong and I'm not compensating for or hiding that ever again.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Albion

OK. I probably should have presumed that for the obvious reasons, but a lot of people these days talk about being 'religious' or 'spiritual' when they mean only that they have some personal conviction that there's a higher power, etc. I don't think it changes anything in what I wrote about the "yoked together" verse.

I understand, I don't really appreciate the elitests who qualify true christians apart from lesser or invalid practitioners of Christianity but I know thats not what you're referring to.

And BTW, a lot of people who are well educated in this stuff think that it's the "unequally" part of that verse that is the key to its meaning, not just that two people are of different beliefs. In other words, it's if the one is squelching the other's ability to believe and worship as he thinks he ought.

Now that is interesting, thank you.

I don't desire to effect, fustrate or remove her faith. I think my lack of desire to do so is one reason why she cares for me so.