So Old Yet So Modern

electroid

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I was reading Romans and I found this. I thought of our current world. You see so many evolutionists on the rise worshipping their creation and claiming it to be their creator. Directly underneath that you have a mention of homosexuality, lesbian and gay. I thought it was so profound I had to share. I've been leaning faithlessly lately. I nearly turned completely atheist, but these verses gave me second thoughts.

Ro 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
 

electroid

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Yes, they are. God used men to speak his words.

That's the basis of Christianity and most other religions. They are profound words nevertheless, wouldn't you say?

The very idea that you yourself are doing exactly what those verses say?

"23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

That's macroevolution right there. An uncorruptible god into a corrupt and changing world, yes? A world with no identity but a constantly molding one as our creator.
 
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c'mon sense

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Yes, they are. God used men to speak his words.

That's the basis of Christianity and most other religions. They are profound words nevertheless, wouldn't you say?

The very idea that you yourself are doing exactly what those verses say?

"23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

That's macroevolution right there. An uncorruptible god into a corrupt and changing world, yes? A world with no identity but a constantly molding one as our creator.

The author of Romans was refering to the alegorical representation of deities as animal, or human-animal chimeras. He was not talking about "macro-evolution."

A changeable nature is that what enables you to be alive at all. If God saw fit that nature be changeable, who are you to disagree? You may not realize it yet, but your preoccupation with "unchangeability", "stability" and all these absolutes, are a preoccupation with death. Life is unstable and dynamic, and that makes the difference between life and death in this world.

They are profound words indeed; too bad they fall on deaf creationists' ears.
 
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electroid

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The author of Romans was refering to the alegorical representation of deities as animal, or human-animal chimeras. He was not talking about "macro-evolution."

A changeable nature is that what enables you to be alive at all. If God saw fit that nature be changeable, who are you to disagree? You may not realize it yet, but your preoccupation with "unchangeability", "stability" and all these absolutes, are a preoccupation with death. Life is unstable and dynamic, and that makes the difference between life and death in this world.

They are profound words indeed; too bad they fall on deaf creationists' ears.
Dear condescending adult,

It doesn't matter what he was referring to at the time because it is repetitive and appears under distinctly similar faces.

"If God saw fit"...well, he didn't...he created a corrupt world that decays and creates identities, souls, that each are given an option, a brain, to come to their own conclusion of him. Atheism is worship of creation. Creation is your creator. Stability does not come from a corrupt world and is only found through the rock and shelter of Christ. He is unchanging and he is one. He has one identity, beginning and ending. It's symbolic and has no grounding, no facts, no sensuality. It's the truth. It's a spirit.
 
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c'mon sense

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Dear condescending adult,

It doesn't matter what he was referring to at the time because it is repetitive and appears under distinctly similar faces.

O.K. So be it, if that's what you want to read into it.

electroid said:
Atheism is worship of creation. Creation is your creator.

We are merely studying "creation". We aren't worshipping it. Also, evolution does not equal atheism. I just believe in one god less than you do.

electroid said:
Stability does not come from a corrupt world and is only found through the rock and shelter of Christ.

electroid said:
He is unchanging and he is one. He has one identity, beginning and ending. It's symbolic and has no grounding, no facts, no sensuality. It's the truth. It's a spirit.

I may be condescending, but I will not comment your faith. If you have any questions about evolution, I and a host of other people here will gladly answer them. Then it's up to you. At least you should know what you're arguing against, before you do.
 
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Magnus Vile

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"If God saw fit"...well, he didn't...he created a corrupt world that decays and creates identities, souls, that each are given an option, a brain, to come to their own conclusion of him. Atheism is worship of creation.

No it isn't. Atheism is a lack of theism. We've heard of these God things and we don't believe they're real. In most cases, you don't either. Calling atheism the worship of creation is as wrong as me calling Christianity the worship of crosses.

Creation is your creator. Stability does not come from a corrupt world and is only found through the rock and shelter of Christ. He is unchanging and he is one. He has one identity, beginning and ending. It's symbolic and has no grounding, no facts, no sensuality. It's the truth. It's a spirit.

It's a story. It's a nice story, if you like that sort of thing. It may even be a true story. However, if it is true, and the story disagrees with the evidence it's not supposed to be taken literally.

After all, who made the universe in your world? Are you calling him a liar? Do you think, perhaps, that he left a lot of evidence lying around to trick us into not believing in him?

The passage in Romans has nothing to do with evolution. It has a lot to do with the worshipping practices of people Paul didn't much care for.
 
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electroid

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Here's a copy and pasting of my "knowledge" on evolution and my antithesis that I debated on another forum.

Yes, but I ask you, what has naturally changed other than what man has merely changed of his own doing which is entirely against nature's pre-notioned cycle? Everything stays within a fixed species. There are no morphing monkies or catastrophic evolutionistic events booming the spotlight of man's time.

I turned out taller but that doesn't mean I'm evolving because the next generation could be smaller or taller as well. I could could have turned out smaller. Basically, it's chance and it changes nothing outside a fixed species.

I take on this large view because I'm human, not any other species, but human. Humans defy nature because they see beyond it. They always have and always will.

“Because fish have gills and birds have wings, because dinosaurs are extinct and snakes are not, because the duckbilled platypus and the spiny anteater have characteristics of both reptiles and mammals, because animals need the waste products of plant respiration to survive and plants need the waste products of animal respiration, because plenty of plants need insects for fertilization but earthworms don’t even need another earthworm, because dolphins are intelligent and whales can sing, because crustaceans look so much like big bugs and primates look so much like humans, and because nearly every meat on the planet doesn’t taste all that much different from chicken, the theory of evolution is correct.”-Marilyn Vos Savant


The same way people try to indoctrinate through old texts they try to indoctrinate through fossils. Same way.

They say "Well, oh, you weren't there so you don't understand."
"Oh, well you haven't lived for a million years." "Oh, well you aren't God."

"See, it was miracles that happened."
"No, it was evolution."
"No, miracles!!"
"No, evolution."

"I got the texts to prove it!"
"Oh, yeah!? Well, I got the fossils to prove it!"
"Oh yeaaah?"
"Yeeeeah!!"

Dinosaurs went extinct, so what? All we're left with is the theory that they were either morphed into creation or zapped or whatever.

Totally stupid. That doesn't happen.

If people were to stop reproducing they'd go extinct too.

Species reproduce y'know? Like, after their own kind.

It all dies off after a while, but nothing is clear as to what made it.

Not even Evolution.

I don't quite have a theory yet. I just know that they're wrong because fossils and books don't prove anything to me.

Fossils are dead species. Not the answer to life.

Books are written ideas. Not the answer to life.

Life had to come from somewhere even if species did intermix(which they don't). Creation is a lie. Nothing is created only renewed within species. If a species dies it dies. That doesn't prove anything. Fossils mean nothing to me. Nothing looks remotely close to a cross breed of any kind. Nothing just sparks from the sky either. The only thing we can be certain of is our death.

Species who haven't gone extinct are as we know them eternal because they go on without end as a species. There is a possible end but that doesn't guarantee one. Without death and total depletion there is eternity. Fittest species is obviously true in that respect. The idea of life on earth eternally must include death. Lively species still carry on.

Everything comes from somewhere but creation and evolution is another story.

How far are you willing to go without knowing hands on? How far into what you're told? Into one theory by one man about the entire property of life?

A human creature going beyond his human line? Do you realize how false it is to say the earth has been around for billions of years when humans haven't even been around that long? Or have they? We don't know! How do we know other species have been around that long? I mean do they pick up a fossil and look for the date enscripted?

There's your death and the death of your living species. Big difference. There are living species that show no sign of going extinct. From what we know, they may go on for as long as the universe does.

-What have you seen lately that came out of nowhere?

-Time doesn't record itself. Carbon dating can only be trusted to a degree of humanity's perception of time's relevance to carbon dated materials which may be at fault. You can't be certain, you weren't there, the living organisms themselves aren't here. We can only speculate and that comes at a great cost. Like one of factual accuracy.

I'm not doubting science. I'm doubting the guy with the theory, Darwin.
Darwin is the one who said we evolved from other species. Darwin is the one who said we have lived for millions of years. Darwin is the one who said the chances had to land at the right place at the right time.

Was Darwin there? Is he this god for which we should endow our trust? If this can't be proven within my means of time and my means of being I'm not going to accept it. It's false because the speculative attributes can't be proven within a time range that can't be proven. He was only a man who left a theory that people gather facts for. Facts can prove alot of theories. That doesn't make them right.

"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things..."

Lovely little slip, wouldn't you say?

Darwin says that the fossils found mean we came from monkies millions of years back, I say it doesn't, and the fossils remain fossils no matter what theory you want to interpret from.

It's a theory not a fact. Facts are used to support it but they don't have to support the first anti-creationist theory that comes jumping around the bend. Facts are used to draw a conclusion but evolution is flawed and needs tweaked here and there. What you don't seem to want to admit is that it is just a theory. There is no sighting or proof that it happened or is happening now. Darwin only predicted and could not know for sure without the physical evidence or knowledge of it. It is a theory. It does not mean that the facts mixed into it make it true.

Yes, our genes vary. Yes, we adapt to climates. Yes, species go extinct. Yes, we have fossils. Yes, they are dated according to the theory and approximately based on chemical altering. Yes, they are matched and studied. Yes, I know all about the Homo Sapiens and this supposed partially evolved Lucy monkey/human skull that shares similar characteristics. People share similarities with monkies, and? Genes vary, and? Human skulls and monkey skulls alike crack and decompose and I imagine they are difficult to examine when they are in such a condition. What on earth does this prove? What it proves by itself. It doesn't need defined under a theory. It's a skull as far as we know. Nothing more nothing less than evidence of today. It doesn't determine whether or not evolution is true or it was there millions upon billions of years back. It doesn't show that it was once a monkey gone human.


You need not believe everything you're told, man. It's what Darwin thought but it doesn't have to be what you think.

If you were to look at fossils and study genetics without ever having known of evolution I can bet the theory would have never crossed your mind because the facts aren't what make the theory. Darwin made the theory.

The list goes on. Please, break this down and comment. I seek your enlightenment. It would make an excellent addition to the rest of my evolutionist babble heap.
 
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Magnus Vile

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c'mon sense

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Here's a copy and pasting of my "knowledge" on evolution and my antithesis that I debated on another forum.



The list goes on. Please, break this down and comment. I seek your enlightenment. It would make an excellent addition to the rest of my evolutionist babble heap.

To be sure:

1. Nobody wants to add to your "evolutionist babble heap."

2. Nobody here wants to "impress" you in any way. We're not dating on this forum.

3. Unless you come off your "absent-minded girlfriend" attitude, we will not have a serious discussion with you.

What you posted so far shows zero knowledge of the subject matter. I would say you have to do your homework first before anybody takes you seriously.

Godspeed!
 
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electroid

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Ah. So not really.
No, it would. Seriously. I collect them.

Darwin was a man with a theory. This theory is what every fact gathered for it make. But, what can be proven and what can't?

Darwin only theorized and he came to the theory he did with very little fact involved. It wasn't untill the after math that these facts came along to prove the theory. So, if you draw a conclusion under such a minimized and unfounded judgement then to what limits will you go to expand it without further analysis of the facts from a basis upon many eyes and methods?

I have stated quite a few problems that stay theoretical with evolution but I'll mention a few more that will rock the boat.

We live within a time span that uses historical records to keep track of our times today. These historical records were written by men from a time that they'd been in. Darwin, however, did not use historical records. Darwin used his theory to write records that had shown no evidence of having been. He tried to explain why we were here on his own terms without having been there himself. Anyone could do that. That's not factual or scientific. That's a lie. People try covering it up by using records like fossils but fossils can't speak, now can they? People may attempt to date them according to their best rationale but it means nothing without real records from real times by real people who thought with real ideas. Ideas we have now are only speculative but we have never been there and regardless of how time goes by and the amount of facts we find to support a theory, it does not create what happened, it creates what we think happened and that goes nowhere but into speculative research backed by a theory, not what actually happened. In order to know what actually happened we would need the support of people because people keep records, people think, people gather facts, people make theories. Nature didn't have these facts written and never will because the past is gone and all we have is the now and some leftovers.

I could tell you it seems to me that a building was built in the 17th century based on a few observations of its architectural design and then start looking up ways of which I know buildings are made today. Does that mean I'm right? Not at all. I don't have any way of knowing that but by facts I can find today. That in and of itself doesn't prove that it was so. It's a mere theory of mine. Also, the very concise manner I observe the building hasn't to do with my knowledge of when and how it was built.

Say someone comes along and says, "Now, wait a minute. That building looks modern to me." And I laugh and say, "You fool, I have the evidence to prove that it was undoubtably constructed in the 17th century. Just look at the windows and door fixtures." but then another person comes up to us and says, "This building didn't form right in front of you both, did it? Then how can you fight over how it was constructed when neither of you can make such assumptions given the time needed to observe it correctly??"

We couldn't, that is why creation and evolution are both wrong. Adam and Eve came from a time when the prophets who wrote the story were far off enough from the family line that they couldn't have experienced this "creation" within their life time, am I right? So, if you'll take evolution and see that the evolving process that is needed was written far off enough from the family line that Darwin couldn't have experienced this "evolving" within his life time, it falls in the same pit of lies. They have their god and you have your theory, but neither of you have the times.
Here's another one against evolution and creation. I do doubt both. That seems strange but I do, lol.
 
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Edx

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The list goes on. Please, break this down and comment. I seek your enlightenment. It would make an excellent addition to the rest of my evolutionist babble heap.

I dont hve time to wade through content obviously taken straight out of Kent Hovinds seminars but I did see his while scanning:

""Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things..."

Lovely little slip, wouldn't you say?

Darwin says that."

My dear, that isnt Darwin, thats Steven J Gould. Its a responce to Creationists claiming that Evolution is "only a theory".

the fossils found mean we came from monkies millions of years back, I say it doesn't, and the fossils remain fossils no matter what theory you want to interpret from
You can say what you like but that doesnt mean its correct without evidence.
 
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c'mon sense

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Again, irrelevant to the subject material being presented.

I'm sorry. I really want to talk to you, if you answer me just one question.

Here goes:
What is evolution and what are its mechanisms? Please give me a concise and simple answer to that.

We'll take it from there.
 
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