So obama believes in the myth of global warming...

[polli1982]

Global warming is not a myth. People that deny global warming are no better than holocaust deniers. IT's obvious, Bruce Springsteen's book, "Tens of Billions of Lies," should be required READING!!!!

 

[romanov]

Global warming is not a myth. People that deny global warming are no better than holocaust deniers. IT's obvious, Bruce Springsteen's book, "Tens of Billions of Lies," should be required READING!!!!

I earnestly trust that you are being facetious.

 

[polli1982]

I earnestly trust that you are being facetious.

WHAT ABOUT THE KYOTO TREATY!!!!!!!? WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY AND HUMANITIES GRANTS FOR THE 27,056 LATINO VEGANS WHO ARE DEFORESTED IN NEW HAMPSHIRE EVERY SINGLE DAY BY OUR EMPEROR AND HIS PLATOON OF ANTIABORTION STOOGES!!!

NEEDLESS TO SAY, KARL ROVE IS A TOOL OF THE YACHT INDUSTRY!!

 

[Saving Hawaii]

WHAT ABOUT THE KYOTO TREATY!!!!!!!? WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY AND HUMANITIES GRANTS FOR THE 27,056 LATINO VEGANS WHO ARE DEFORESTED IN NEW HAMPSHIRE EVERY SINGLE DAY BY OUR EMPEROR AND HIS PLATOON OF ANTIABORTION STOOGES!!!

NEEDLESS TO SAY, KARL ROVE IS A TOOL OF THE YACHT INDUSTRY!!

At this point safely facetious.

 

[romanov]

WHAT ABOUT THE KYOTO TREATY!!!!!!!? WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY AND HUMANITIES GRANTS FOR THE 27,056 LATINO VEGANS WHO ARE DEFORESTED IN NEW HAMPSHIRE EVERY SINGLE DAY BY OUR EMPEROR AND HIS PLATOON OF ANTIABORTION STOOGES!!!

NEEDLESS TO SAY, KARL ROVE IS A TOOL OF THE YACHT INDUSTRY!!

That is awesome!!

 

[polli1982]

At this point safely facetious.

Unlike you and Laura Bush I am not in love with Imperialism. We need to stop eating meat to save the planet! It's a proven scientific fact that cows cause global warming and we must Act Now! to stop it!

Heed Al Gore's advice! Watch his movie! Repent our sins or the end is near!

 

[Saving Hawaii]

Unlike you and Laura Bush I am not in love with Imperialism. We need to stop eating meat to save the planet! It's a proven scientific fact that cows cause global warming and we must Act Now! to stop it!

Heed Al Gore's advice! Watch his movie! Repent our sins or the end is near!

Yessir - I'm gonna drive to the movie store a few miles away to get that movie right now... and I'll think I'll drive a good half hour to the local natural foods store... yessir! Save the planet!

It's already a little old buddy.

 

[polli1982]

For crying out loud it's open season on rainforests.

 

[Saving Hawaii]

For crying out loud it's open season on rainforests.

If I'm not mistaken, the only rainforest in the United States is a pretty small chunk of land on the Olympic Peninsula (near Seattle). It's within a national park and is protected from commercial uses.

 

[polli1982]

If I'm not mistaken, the only rainforest in the United States is a pretty small chunk of land on the Olympic Peninsula (near Seattle). It's within a national park and is protected from commercial uses.

But there's other rainforests and people are slashing and burning and murdering the trees as we speak! It's horrifying! Thing of the animals that live in them? What about their rights? Who speaks for them?

It's terrible!

 

[Baggins]

How many of the members of the IPCC are climatologists vs. some other specialty?

Why don't you read their report and find out?

I would imagine the vast majority of those working on the Climatology part of the report were climatologists - I doubt many aeronautical engineers were involved.

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Print_Annexes.pdf

The list of contributers is there, see if you can find an aeronautical engineer on it

It is probable that engineers are included in the second and third working groups as they are about consequences of climate change and mitigation of climate change.

 

[Baggins]

No, I asked one. That is the reason for the little (?) thing at the end.



No, it was the inability to produce the quantity and quality of grapes necessary to produce wines that would not make you gag.

I'm afraid that is just rubbish. many sub tropical fruits have been grown in the South of the UK since Roman times. The climate of the Southern UK is very similar to that of Northern France, that is hardly suprising seeing as Northern France is 22 miles away from the South of the UK.

These days British sparkling wine wins many awards in competition with Champagne. That is hardly suprising seeing as the climate and geology are almost identical to Champagne. The reason this wasn't done before was not because the grapes would not grow but because the techniques were not known and the desire was not there.

Trying to say the climate of the UK is so radically different to that of France that grapes could not be grown until recently shows a stunning inability to look at a map and notice how close two countries are to each other.

But climate deniers ability to repeat faery tales and ignore reality has never been in doubt.

I suggest you visit some of the stately homes of England and look at their kitchen gardens where many fruits like grapes, peaches, apricots etc, usually associated with warmer climates, are grown on South facing brick walls. Grapes can be grown on south facing hill sides quite far North in the UK and that has always been the case

The climate in the UK is never going to be ideal for some sorts of wine making but it has always gone on:

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-History-of-Winemaking-in-the-UK&id=848943

When the Romans finally left, winemaking stayed. The Venerable Bede mentioned vineyards in his Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation, written in 731

Many wineries during the middle ages were located in monasteries. This may have been because wine was an integral part of Catholic ceremony. However, wine wasn't just a religious drink. In the medieval era, it was a common social drink for all classes, particularly in the South of England, and it was common for the wealthy to have their own vineyards

.

By 1491, there were about 139 large vineyards in England. Many of these were owned by the church, but a significant number were owned by the crown and various noble families. It's clear that by this time wine was firmly established in England.

And so on. The reason for decline in English wine making was probably cheap French imports, but it has always been there on a small scale, and now it is increasing massively.

I suggest you try Chapel Down Flint Dry it is quite superb.

 

[joebudda]

Is the Sky Really Falling? A Review of Recent Global Warming Scare Stories
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa576.pdf
by Patrick J. Michaels


Patrick J. Michaels is senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and professor of natural resources at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. He is a past president of the American Association of State Climatologists and an author of the 2003 climate science “Paper of the Year” selected by the Association of American Geographers. His research has been published in major scientific journals, including Climate Research, Climatic Change, Geophysical Research Letters, Journal of Climate, Nature, and Science. He received his Ph.D. in ecological climatology from the University of Wisconsin at Madison in 1979.

 

[chaim]

For claiming to be so well read and up on the issue, you are incredibly ignorant of climate science and history. There is NO WAY the Renaissance was 5 degrees warmer than it is now. This is an absurdly preposterous claim. If you look at the actual scientific data, you will clearly see that the Renaisance was during the little ice age from 14th to 17th centuries when average temperatures were about a degree C colder than they are now. What I think you may be trying to refer to is the medieval warm period (in the 10th and 11th centuries), however even during this period average temperatures were about half a degree colder than current temperatures.
Here is a nice graphic to set you straight:

The claim that is was 5 degrees warmer in the past millenia also clearly demonstrates that you know little about climate science. The difference in average temperatures between an ice age and an interglacial is about 4-6 degrees. If it were 5 degrees warmer in 1500, we would be smack in the middle of an ice age right now.

I think the web site went over this ground very well. The signers of the petition are in scientific or engineering fields and are well versed in the scientific method.



There are climate scientist who do not subscribe to the man made global warming hoax. And it is a hoax. I base my knowledge in the life time of reading everything I can. I have found some of the most useful knowledge comes from completely unrelated sources. Like the Nenana ice classic. Like the story I read years ago about how Greenland got it's name.



Are you not some sort of geologist or am I confusing you with some-one else on this board. I would be willing to bet you could build a plane because I am sure you can read and do some math. I am sure any-one who can read can come to a conclusion on MMGW.



Sadly, too many people are believing in the MMGW hoax.

Global warming is not man made. It is part of a cycle. The planet gets warmer. It gets cooler. This ball of mud and water has been much much warmer and much much cooler in times past. In the short geological history that modern man has been on this planet, we've had what? An ice age, a mini ice age and during the Renaissance the temperature was an average of 5 degrees warmer than it is now. In fact the Renaissance is when human populations exploded on this planet. If I had a choice between global warming and global cooling, I'd pick global warming.

Ok, so I've heard we've experienced a 10th of a degree change in temperature, 3/10ths of a degree change in temperature and 7/10ths of a degree change in temperature. As far as what I know, I'd go with the 3/10ths of a degree change. Let's just assume for the sake of argument, that global warming is man made. (Now in no way is this an admission that global warming is man made. I said we are assuming. And don't give me any of that garbage of, "You know what you do when you assume.") So what do we do to drop the average temperature by 3/10ths of a degree? How many trillions of dollars do we spend dropping the temperature that 3/10ths of a degree? How far back into the dark ages are you willing to go? More importantly, how much power are you willing to give to government over your life for 3/10ths of a degree change? And a change in average temperature that's really not an average temperature at all. It's an average temperature since records have been kept. But for how many millinia were the temperatures on the Earth virtually unknown?

 

[Baggins]

Is the Sky Really Falling? A Review of Recent Global Warming Scare Stories
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa576.pdf
by Patrick J. Michaels


Patrick J. Michaels is senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and professor of natural resources at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. He is a past president of the American Association of State Climatologists and an author of the 2003 climate science “Paper of the Year” selected by the Association of American Geographers. His research has been published in major scientific journals, including Climate Research, Climatic Change, Geophysical Research Letters, Journal of Climate, Nature, and Science. He received his Ph.D. in ecological climatology from the University of Wisconsin at Madison in 1979.

You can find individuals that will disagree with practically anything in the scientific community, and in this case disagreeing is probably extremely lucrative due to the huge numbers of people who want to believe that they will never have to change their lifestyles and it is all a nasty dream that will go away or an evil conspiracy to take their SUVs away.

Now if you could find a relevant scientific body that disagreed with global warming I'd be impressed, but there aren't any are there?

I bet I could find a guy with a PhD in Earth Sciences who thought the Earth was flat if I looked hard enough.

 

[joebudda]

 

[Braunwyn]

I think the web site went over this ground very well. The signers of the petition are in scientific or engineering fields and are well versed in the scientific method.

If you take the time to review the site and those that signed the petition, along with the fraud that has been brought to light (mickey mouse et al signing), you will find that you're incorrect.

 

[chaim]

Joe, your are missing the point here. What matters is NET emissions. Sure nature emits 772 gigatons of CO2, bu nature absorbs 778 gigatonnes, as a result the actual effect of the natural carbon cycle is to remove 6 gigatons of CO2 from the atmosphere. Humans on the other hand 29 gigatons of CO2 to the atmosphere each and every year and don't remove any. Therefore over the course of 30 years we will DOUBLE the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, as is evident by the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere:

(http://www.oar.noaa.gov/spotlite/archive/spot_maunaloa.html)

Although given that you think a policital thinktank is a good source of information on a scientific issue, I am going to guess you don't really care about actual data.

 

[joebudda]

Nir Shaviv = Israeli/American physics professor, carrying out research in the fields of astrophysics and climate science. He is currently an associate professor at the Racah Institute of Physics of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

A few years ago if you would ask me I would tell you it's CO2. Why? Because just like everyone else in the public I listened to what the media had to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Shaviv

His peer reviewed paper on his evidence.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0409/0409123v1.pdf

 

[chaim]

I applaud you for looking at actual scientific sources. I hope you also read the paper you linked to. If you did you would see that even if this theory is correct (which is debateable) it can account for 0.37K of warming over the past century due to natural forcings, with the rest being anthropogenic. Now look at the temperature change over the last century:

We have about a 1 K rise in temperature. This would indicate that the natural solar/cosmic ray forcing proposed by Shavib et al. could account for 1/3 of the total warming, in Shaviv's own words, the rest being due to anthropogenic forcing.

Nir Shaviv = Israeli/American physics professor, carrying out research in the fields of astrophysics and climate science. He is currently an associate professor at the Racah Institute of Physics of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Shaviv

His peer reviewed paper on his evidence.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0409/0409123v1.pdf