So About BLM....

[Ana the Ist]

What's super-duper convincing about this random opinion is that there's literally no way it is hyperbole.

What do you think she labeled correctly?

 

[Kentonio]

You mean this?

Macpherson report: what was it and what impact did it have?

Yes, although the actual report not just a newspaper's short summary of it.

 

[Kentonio]

You should probably read this report instead...

Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

The report added that evidence had found that factors such as geography, family influence, socio-economic background, culture and religion had "more significant impact on life chances than the existence of racism".

"That said, we take the reality of racism seriously and we do not deny that it is a real force in the UK."

The report also said there is an "increasingly strident form of anti-racism thinking that seeks to explain all minority disadvantage through the prism of white discrimination" which it said diverted attention from "the other reasons for minority success and failure.

Hmmm...sounds familiar.

Quite remarkable how you actually started a thread claiming to be wildly misunderstood and fiercely anti-racist, and yet when I ask if you've read an intensive independent report into systematic racism (something you claim doesn't exist), your response is to throw out an unrelated and much later story about something that was politically sponsored and widely criticised.

Yeah, I think the 'give Ana the benefit of the doubt' train has pretty much left the station by this point.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Quite remarkable how you actually started a thread claiming to be wildly misunderstood and fiercely anti-racist, and yet when I ask if you've read an intensive independent report into systematic racism (something you claim doesn't exist)

A report on the UK from the 90s?

It talks of institutional racism, and defines it as racism in practice or law. It's a report 24 years old. They looked for racism, they found it, I'm not surprised nor disagreeing with the results.

Are you saying nothing has changed in a quarter of a century?

If you have criticism of a report that looks at multiple factors, not just race, then let's hear it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, although the actual report not just a newspaper's short summary of it.

You want me to read a 350 page report?

Have you read it?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Words like 'Marxism' and 'Communism' are thrown around so often these days that they've become worthless. 90% of the time they're nothing but empty accusations standing in for 'policies that I don't like'.

You can add "racist" to the list of worthless words.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Quite remarkable how you actually started a thread claiming to be wildly misunderstood and fiercely anti-racist,

Never claimed to be anti-racist. That's just what the new racists call themselves.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Hammster, if you support Trump you also support abortion. Under Trump, we paid Israel over $10M per day. Israel has very liberal abortion laws, funded by your tax dollars. You were personally funding abortion under Trump, and had no objection whatsoever.

Can you provide any proof that the money went specifically to performing abortions?

 

[NxNW]

Can you provide any proof that the money went specifically to performing abortions?

It's the exact same evidence that federal funding for Planned Parenthood somehow went specifically to funding abortions.

 

[eclipsenow]

BLM Chapter Founder on why he quit BLM

Blacks speaking out against BLM

Yay - let's play "Gish Gallop all over the group I find scary."
I guess "HisLegacy" does hang out in Charismatic circles.
It's less about logically demonstrating your position, more about the emotions there. It's true because you FEEL it. So that then extends out to political FEELING as well.

 

[eclipsenow]

Honestly, I hope that someone else can sort of take the reigns and make it a more productive organization.

Some of the issues the say they want to address are valid issues, and ones for which there is substantial public support.

However, early on, they allowed unrelated ideologies to bleed into their message, and draw division.

When their chapters are putting up mission statements like these, it's not surprising that they're a divisive group...
View attachment 300344


You can't put "abolition of capitalism" down as one of your mission statements, and then act as if everyone who opposes your group is doing so simply because they are bigots that don't think that "Black lives matter". You can name your group "stop punching sweet little old ladies", if one of your mission statements is "abolition of capitalism", you won't get my support.

BLM has needed a PR overhaul for a while.

It'd be sort of like if there was a situation like this...
Activist: "Hey, I just started a group called Clean Rivers Now (#CRN), you interested in supporting us?"

Reasonable person: "I'd be willing to consider it, what's your mission?"

Activist: "We want to stop all companies from dumping waste in the rivers, impose heavy fines on polluters, sponsor politicians who will fight for strong ecological policies, and we also want to lower the age of sexual consent to 11 years old, are you with us?"

Reasonable person: "absolutely not, I don't want anything to do with your group"

Activist: "oh, hey, come look everyone! come look at this bigoted climate change denier who doesn't care about clean water!!!!"


I've used this example before, but most people agree on preventing animal abuse, but there's a good reason why most people have a positive perception of the ASPCA, but a negative perception of PETA (despite their acronyms implying a similar purpose, semantically).

BLM = PETA... that particular semantically stated mission statement desperately needs its "ASPCA" equivalent... An organization that still upholds the values of police reform, ending qualified immunity, acknowledgement of the impacts of multi-generational racism, but without being saddled with all of the anti-capitalism and postmodernist feminism nonsense.

I'm curious - where did you source that BLM banner - and is it still there?
I understand that the main BLM homepage used to be communist and all that - but that it had a major overhaul since the money started flowing in and they realised they should tone down the Communism crap to actually achieve something. That is, realpolitik shoved out the Communist Propaganda. So I guess I'm asking when that banner was posted, and is it still there? Because BLM has had an overhaul, and maybe it's good for BLM that the founder is leaving? Anna the First has lost a lot of their grudge against BLM now that one of the founding commo's is leaving. That's the only reason Anna's sulking about them leaving - it removes one of his primary objections to BLM!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm curious - where did you source that BLM banner - and is it still there?
I understand that the main BLM homepage used to be communist and all that - but that it had a major overhaul since the money started flowing in and they realised they should tone down the Communism crap to actually achieve something. That is, realpolitik shoved out the Communist Propaganda. So I guess I'm asking when that banner was posted, and is it still there? Because BLM has had an overhaul, and maybe it's good for BLM that the founder is leaving? Anna the First has lost a lot of their grudge against BLM now that one of the founding commo's is leaving. That's the only reason Anna's sulking about them leaving - it removes one of his primary objections to BLM!

Black Lives Matter DC

Right from the home page of their DC chapter website.

About Us

The Chicago chapter still echoes a similar sentiment on their "About Us" page.

...and while Cullors is leaving from the sounds of it...BLM LA still has her memoirs on their "recommended reading list"
Resources — BLMLA

As well as works by Angela Davis (who also had a propensity for anti-capitalism ideas)

 

[Oompa Loompa]

It's the exact same evidence that federal funding for Planned Parenthood somehow went specifically to funding abortions.

Which is what exactly?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yay - let's play "Gish Gallop all over the group I find scary."
I guess "HisLegacy" does hang out in Charismatic circles.
It's less about logically demonstrating your position, more about the emotions there. It's true because you FEEL it. So that then extends out to political FEELING as well.

LOL. There is that ‘scary’ theme again. Never gets old.

Please, ignore the videos of African Americans speaking out against BLM and explaining why. Must be because I am Pentecostal charismatic.

Yeah, that’s it.

Too funny

 

[NxNW]

It's the exact same evidence that federal funding for Planned Parenthood somehow went specifically to funding abortions.

Which is what exactly?

Those who oppose funding of Planned Parenthood will need to answer that question, since they brought it up in the first place.

 

[eclipsenow]

Black Lives Matter DC

Right from the home page of their DC chapter website.

About Us

The Chicago chapter still echoes a similar sentiment on their "About Us" page.

...and while Cullors is leaving from the sounds of it...BLM LA still has her memoirs on their "recommended reading list"
Resources — BLMLA

As well as works by Angela Davis (who also had a propensity for anti-capitalism ideas)

Thank you! I'm an Australian, and tend to only get involved in BLM conversations when it really hits the news. But BLM is a funny organisation in that I'm not sure how much "Chapters" actually integrate with the overall mission of the main homepage. That is, smaller local groups might be influenced by local members to go in a wild direction. But the BLM About homepage is quite different.

About
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc. is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.
https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/​

 

[Kentonio]

A report on the UK from the 90s?

It talks of institutional racism, and defines it as racism in practice or law. It's a report 24 years old. They looked for racism, they found it, I'm not surprised nor disagreeing with the results.

Are you saying nothing has changed in a quarter of a century?

If you have criticism of a report that looks at multiple factors, not just race, then let's hear it.

Glad to see you're not even pretending to be approaching this from an academic standpoint anymore. The reason MacPherson is incredibly relevant to today's America is that it came about in a very similar national environment.

In the time preceding the report there had been many instances of black and other non-white ethnicities complaining of racism in policing. The response from police, government and most citizens was very much like it is today in the US. A belief basically that any incidents were due to a few bad apples in an otherwise fair system.

The man appointed to lead the independent inquiry was a high court judge, Sir MacPherson, a traditionally quite conservative role in the UK. It was not an environment where racism was accepted or looked for in Britain's institutions, and nobody really expected anything huge to come out of it. When the final report was delivered it shook Britain's institutions to their core and has since been described as 'one of the most important moments in the modern history of criminal justice in Britain'.

So when I look at Americans saying all the same things about racial justice as were being said in the UK before this report, and the radical changes that occurred afterwards, it's hard not to become frustrated.

If you have no interest in learning from history and the masses of intensive study that went into this very issue, then don't pretend to be approaching this with anything like an open mind.

 

[KCfromNC]

What do you think she labeled correctly?

I'd assume if there were any actual defense for the bit I quoted a while back this post wouldn't have to resort to trying to shift the burden of proof.

Also, this seems like an admission that attacks based on labeling the organization as Marxist were in bad faith. After all, "she lied about labeling everything" and "she labeled the organization X and X is bad" can't both be used by one attempting to make a consistent argument about the group.

 

[Strathos]

You can add "racist" to the list of worthless words.

There's definitely an issue with the language of racism. IMO the biggest problem is how people tend to label individuals as being either 'a racist' or 'not a racist', as if it were a binary, or something that is purely the fault of an individual with malicious intentions. People can repeat racist memes and arguments and propagate racist beliefs without being aware that they are doing so.

 

[Danthemailman]

Black Lives Matter infighting reaches a boiling point as members demand 'accountability'