Smoking Pot

[Harlan Norris]

You're completely right, but Harlan's an "ex-smoker". He's got the arrogant mindset that since he smoked for some great amount of time and having quit and been though it all that he knows all there is to know about it. That's like saying I've driven for 40 years, I know all about cars, and how everyone else in the world drives cars. On one hand he absolutely knows I'm addicted and then he's asking me if I kids. He doesn't even know if I have kids, but he knows I'm an addict because I smoke and staunchly defend pot.

Your absolutely right Harlan, drugs musta messed up your head up real good.

Pot is your God.

 

[419gam]

While it's true,everyone that drinks isn't an alchoholic.Drinking will not cut one out of the deal the way dope does.Look it's illegal,and you know it.Your breaking the law when you smoke.You may think you have it all under control.But, when you buy a bag, your taking a chance,and that chance is worth it to you.Why is that?Suppose you get caught with more than a misdemeanor amount.Then what.Will you tell the judge that you don't agree with the law,so you just don't follow it.Even a small amount will separate you from federal employment.I knew a guy that was trying to get on out at Rocky Flats,a nuke plant.He was also a pipefitter.I was working at a different place.An FBI agent came and questioned me about him.They asked about drugs.I knew he was clean at the time and I said he could take a drug test anytime,as an answer.Uh huh,she says.Well he didn't get the job,and he'd been sitting quite a while.So a casual user is really in just as much jepordy.But what the hay.It's worth it right.

You can legally use marijuana for medical purposes in California, and even if its not medical the misdemeanor amount is an ounce. You have to be pretty brazen to be caught and somewhat clueless to get caught with more then an ounce. Aside from which anyone wanting to work for the federal government IMO is setting there sights too low. Besides its not really a true disqualifier, our president used cocaine for gosh sakes and look where he is. During my heaviest period of cannabis use which was a couple years ago I passed a drug screen and worked for the government no problem.

As I said before and what you havn't offered an arguement against is its the individual not the drug. Just because you have anecdotal evidence of you and your friends having bad experiences due to pot, does not make that apllicable to society at large.

 

[Rize]

Pot is decriminlized where I live which is California. Possesion of less then an ounce is not eligible for a prison or jail sentance although it is still subject to fines and confiscation. Being caught with pot is somewhat similar to being cited for a trafic violation.

Legalization on the other hand would mean tha t you could legally buy and sell cannabis.

Oh. Forget decriminalization then. There would still be illegal drug dealing and the like. It wouldn't solve anything. It should be legalized and the purchasing and sale should be regulated in a manner similar to alcohol.

 

[Rize]

While it's true,everyone that drinks isn't an alchoholic.Drinking will not cut one out of the deal the way dope does.Look it's illegal,and you know it.Your breaking the law when you smoke.You may think you have it all under control.But, when you buy a bag, your taking a chance,and that chance is worth it to you.Why is that?Suppose you get caught with more than a misdemeanor amount.Then what.Will you tell the judge that you don't agree with the law,so you just don't follow it.Even a small amount will separate you from federal employment.I knew a guy that was trying to get on out at Rocky Flats,a nuke plant.He was also a pipefitter.I was working at a different place.An FBI agent came and questioned me about him.They asked about drugs.I knew he was clean at the time and I said he could take a drug test anytime,as an answer.Uh huh,she says.Well he didn't get the job,and he'd been sitting quite a while.So a casual user is really in just as much jepordy.But what the hay.It's worth it right.

This is merely an argument for legalization. That we are breaking laws if we choose to smoke is an infringement on our personal freedom without our having infringed on the personal freedom of another. It's bad law. And in fact juries, although most don't know it, have a right to judge the law as well as the "criminal". It is legal for a jury to find any offender they choose innocent if they believe the law is unjust. It's called jury nullification, look it up.

 

[Cerberus~]

Pot is your God.

And ignorance is yours.

 

[invisible trousers]

Pot is your God.

These are the types of things people say when they're losing arguments.

 

[Cherberrie]

Except that if I have a problem, and I get high, I usually end up thinking about that problem till I can figure out a solution. I tend to run away from my problems more when I'm sober or drunk, when I'm high I focus more on the problem and the solution.

Same here. For me it also tempers that initial blinding anger and hurt that sometimes arise when I'm faced with a problem. Also, my "layers" are peeled back, so I can get to the root of the issue and not just focus on the problems that are symptoms of the root issue.

I don't have anything to add to the debate in your last paragraph, you said very well what I have been thinking while reading this thread.

 

[Apex]

Same here. For me it also tempers that initial blinding anger and hurt that sometimes arise when I'm faced with a problem. Also, my "layers" are peeled back, so I can get to the root of the issue and not just focus on the problems that are symptoms of the root issue.

I don't have anything to add to the debate in your last paragraph, you said very well what I have been thinking while reading this thread.

I think this comes from week not affecting everyone the exact same way. I have been with a lot of high people and none of them have ever been affected in the same way as another person by it. Ive seen some people who realtivly normal get extremley jumpy, talkative and hyper, basically extremley annoying. Ive seen other people, some who were extremely hyper and loud when sober, just simply go staight to sleep when ever they got high.

 

[Rize]

I think this comes from week not affecting everyone the exact same way. I have been with a lot of high people and none of them have ever been affected in the same way as another person by it. Ive seen some people who realtivly normal get extremley jumpy, talkative and hyper, basically extremley annoying. Ive seen other people, some who were extremely hyper and loud when sober, just simply go staight to sleep when ever they got high.

When questioned carefully about the experience (and I agree from personal experience) a major effect of cannabis is that it increases the force with which we experience the world through our senses. The intensity of everything increases and you become able to focus intensely upon something with ease. The cost of this is that you lose the big picture a bit. It's like zooming in. More close up detail less big picture. This makes it difficult to multitask, while giving you greater detail at whatever it is you are focusing on. Of course, listening to a description is nothing like actually experiencing it. Each individual that experiences it reacts in a different way as you perceived, but I think the effect itself is similar from person to person. Could be wrong though.

 

[psychedelicist]

I think this comes from week not affecting everyone the exact same way. I have been with a lot of high people and none of them have ever been affected in the same way as another person by it. Ive seen some people who realtivly normal get extremley jumpy, talkative and hyper, basically extremley annoying. Ive seen other people, some who were extremely hyper and loud when sober, just simply go staight to sleep when ever they got high.

That's true and deserves repeating. No drug effects everyone the same way. I won't deny that for some people weed probably has great escapism potential, but then so does just about anything. If weed's not your thing, or you feel it's hurting more than helping, definitely stay away.

Like cerberus said, it seems to me that harlan is going on his experience only and is assuming that everyone else's experiences have been and will be identical to his. That's how these kinds of things end up illegal in the first place.

 

[b4uris]

It's just stupid. Like drinking alcohol just to get drunk, although I think drinking alcohol regularly is already stupid enough.

 

[Rize]

That may be, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. Check the political forum for a couple of more rigorous discussion about the politics of drugs.

 

[Harlan Norris]

This is merely an argument for legalization. That we are breaking laws if we choose to smoke is an infringement on our personal freedom without our having infringed on the personal freedom of another. It's bad law. And in fact juries, although most don't know it, have a right to judge the law as well as the "criminal". It is legal for a jury to find any offender they choose innocent if they believe the law is unjust. It's called jury nullification, look it up.

You know there was a time when the vast majority of people did not even know what pot was.It just wasn't even in the vernacular.It was illegal but no one cared.They didn't know what it was.People didn't smoke pot.They did drink.Actually it was my generation that brought this wonderful thing into the open.Back then you could get serious jail time for a bag.So, I started smoking at 16. That was 1967.Natureally we all thought it should be legal then,along with everything else.For a while in the 70s it almost seemed like it was legal.You'd see people walking down the street smoking a joint,no one bothering.The 80s though were different.Regan era.That's when testing started,though it never got around to me personally until the 90s.I was in my 40s then.I still smoked occasionally,but I felt silly doing it.You know what Lenny Bruce said,"There's nothing sadder than an old hipster".So, I just grew out of it.Now though,with this new regime in power,and nothing stopping them,I can forsee pot becoming a serious crime again.I do not personally desire this,but I can see it comming.Do you know of any that have used this nullification tactic whith a drug conviction?Anyway,in time if you don't get involved with anything stronger,you will probably just get tired of it and quit.The law however,is not likely to change,except to get tougher.

 

[Harlan Norris]

And ignorance is yours.

You are right,that was to much.Forgive me.

 

[Rize]

You know there was a time when the vast majority of people did not even know what pot was.It just wasn't even in the vernacular.It was illegal but no one cared.They didn't know what it was.People didn't smoke pot.They did drink.Actually it was my generation that brought this wonderful thing into the open.Back then you could get serious jail time for a bag.So, I started smoking at 16. That was 1967.Natureally we all thought it should be legal then,along with everything else.For a while in the 70s it almost seemed like it was legal.You'd see people walking down the street smoking a joint,no one bothering.The 80s though were different.Regan era.That's when testing started,though it never got around to me personally until the 90s.I was in my 40s then.I still smoked occasionally,but I felt silly doing it.You know what Lenny Bruce said,"There's nothing sadder than an old hipster".So, I just grew out of it.Now though,with this new regime in power,and nothing stopping them,I can forsee pot becoming a serious crime again.I do not personally desire this,but I can see it comming.Do you know of any that have used this nullification tactic whith a drug conviction?Anyway,in time if you don't get involved with anything stronger,you will probably just get tired of it and quit.The law however,is not likely to change,except to get tougher.

All quite true. All good argument for legalization really. I disagree about the law though. It's going to change eventually. Probably not during this administration of course.

As for nullification, I'm not sure if it has been practiced for marijuana use. Most who are caught don't have a trial by jury in the first place. Also judges don't like juries to be informed about nullification. They say things like "it is your 'duty' to apply the law" implying that they have no right to judge the law itself. Nullification is genearlly out of style and supressed.

However, if I understand correctly, the very idea of trial by jury implied the possibility of nullification when the constitution was written. The right wasn't explicitly enumerated unfortunately. It really should have been stuck somewhere in the bill of rights.

 

[Cerberus~]

You are right,that was to much.Forgive me.

Sure, I'm too high to be angry anyway.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Sure, I'm too high to be angry anyway.

Fair enough.