Smoking Pot

[marblehead]

Saying you have more control when you are high than when you are drunk personally doesnt answer if you have more control when you are high then when you are straight , this is a non issue to the discussion.

I agree it's a non issue, but you were comparing marijuana to alcohol and so was I.

considering that anyone can edit a post and write anything they want at wikipedia , thats not a very good source to prove that . Please cite a real medical source and it might have merit . Wikipedia has been in the news many times for having fraudulent liable articles that have no basis in fact .

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1953-01-01_2_page004.html?print=yes
"The new compound was marketed by Bayer under the name "Heroin." (The name is probably derived from "heroisch" which in German medical terminology means large, powerful, extreme, one with pronounced effect even in small doses.) Later this name became a synonym for the drug."

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20041003_202510_1296
"In 1898, Bayer, on Dreser's recommendation, launched heroin."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heroin/brain/
"The Bayer Company named it heroin and marketed it as less-addicting and less toxic alternative to morphine."

You were quoting yourself but failed to say it was yourself , from another thread which means what? If you are answering me , you need to be quoting me , not yourself , then asking me questions based on you answering yourself while saying you are speaking to me . Im not omniscient , so i cannot read your mind when you do not cite who you are speaking with or who you are quoting .

I said this right before I quoted myself.-->As I said in another thread about marijuana:

When was I answering myself? I think you're getting way confused here. I stated that I was quoting myself and the whole post was in response to you, I was speaking to you.

 

[Cerberus~]

Sorry but this is really poor reasoning , are you high right now by any chance? This is like saying rape should be legal or i prefer a higher crime rate , or robbery , or heroine use , etc..

Yes, I am high, and yes, legalization will stop crime in more ways than the obvious. Aside from not having to deal with pot smokers anymore, we'ld stop all marijuana trafficing and large scale domestic grow-ops. No more gangs selling pot. We can control it and regulate it better, so maybe it won't be easier for kids to get than alcohol and tobacco.

Of course, only a completely end to prohibition will dramatically reduce crime. Prohibitions always create black markets. And it the case of drugs, it's a 100 billion$ a year market than even the poorest person can get into. Money. That's why disenfranchized black kids group together and sell drugs and get into turf wars. Because they come from poverty, and bad homes, and they want money and family, and a gang is both. End prohibition, and you take that drug market away from the gangs. Now the gangs have less reason to kill eachother in turf wars, since there's little financial reason to do so. But prohibition has done a lot of damage, and now a lot of these gangs are in bloodfueds. But with time, lack of money will dry the gangs up.

Not to mention, with legalization, we can control the outlawed drugs far more securely than we can while prohibited.

There are numerous benefits to legalization that far outweigh any possible harm from the drugs themselves.

Just look to the Netherlands which has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

No , it isnt . Both alcohol and pot are depressants , and pot has as added haloucinogenic quality , which actually makes it worse . Here are a couple articles about the depressive effects and harmful effects to the body of pot use which contradict your claims :

Pot isn't a hallucinagen, it's a pyschedelic. Most people don't get high and see things. And it isn't a depressant, it's a euphoriant. People wouldn't smoke it if it made them depressed.

http://www.magellanassist.com/mem/library/default.asp?TopicId=268&CategoryId=0&ArticleId=46

Marijuana more harmful than we thought especially for girls http://www.magellanassist.com/mem/library/default.asp?TopicId=268&CategoryId=0&ArticleId=46http://www.magellanassist.com/mem/library/default.asp?TopicId=268&CategoryId=0&ArticleId=46http://www.magellanassist.com/mem/library/default.asp?TopicId=268&CategoryId=0&ArticleId=46

It makes reference to 1 study that it doesn't even name to say that girls who toke up are 4 times more likely to get pregnant than those who don't. Not because pot makes you pregnant. but because you might get high and have sex because pot made you have sex. Maybe they're just party girls that don't use protection?

http://www.cannabis.net/marigirl.jpg

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

* What are the long-term effects of marijuana use?

Respiratory system: Marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Marijuana smoke can cause the same breathing problems that tobacco users experience, including bronchitis and emphysema.

Cancer: Marijuana smoke contains more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. In fact, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

Reproductive system: Heavy use of marijuana can affect male and female hormones, diminish or extinguish sexual pleasure, and cause a temporary loss in fertility. Among other symptoms, women may have irregular menstrual cycles, and young men may experience the delayed onset of puberty.

Immune System: Animal studies have found that THC can damage the cells and tissues that help guard against disease.

Show me someone who's gotten cancer from pot. And then explain to me why any of these "health risks" mean a damn thing when we have tobacco, a legal substance that kills a half million people a year.

BTW, http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml is a much more balanced and comprehensive look into many of the diffent aspects of smoking pot.

Pure baseless speculation without any support .

"Kaneh bosem" is in the Bible. It's a strech, not really not something that I feel like argueing over, but that bridge isn't much longer than taking a bunch of verses about alcohol and trying to make them apply to pot, ignoring the differences between the two.

No , they arent rare cases , it would be the rare case where it didnt alter or affect your self control , which is why some choose to get high , because they want to escape control .

You have no idea why people want to get high. If you did, you'ld want it legalized too.

Yes , I have smoked it before in my younger years and saw tons of my friends become total losers and graduate to much worse things and saw their lives end up in the toilet .

And which is too blame, your friends, or a plant. If you're going to do drugs, you have to have self control. That's what seperates the enlightened and casual user from the addicted user.

There is no reason people like me have to suffer because your friends couldn't get their act straight.

So you wont be convincing me of its "good" qualities . Its not ok because of what ive stated and you can read the articles above to see many other reasons .

You say wine is ok because it has medical benefits and there is a connoisseurship involved with it. Pot has a connoisseurship, and for many users, it enhances life, it makes it simply better, which hey, some people like quality of life over quantity of life, although one can consume pot in ways that are completely healthy.

The Bible speaks out against alcohol intoxication dozens of times as you've shown. Not once does it mention pot, yet you're saying that alcohol, in moderation, is ok, but even moderate use of pot is bad, even though the heaviest use possible couldn't exceed a moderate amount of wine.

Complete double standard.

Again more speculation without merit in anything other than wishful thinking .

No, I know 2 devout Christians that smoke for this purpose.

Here is what i said that this was in response to : Im sorry you are unable to diffrientiate a discussion on generalities concerning drug testing of a person who uses marijuana and me making personal speculation about you personally . The comment was to ones inability to get a job that drug tests if they are a pot smoker . Again , are you high right now?

I could enter any job within at most, 6 months. Though what got me the most was your veiled attack on my judgement.

God created poison ivy , i wouldnt want you to eat it or smoke it . The reason it causes a haloucinogenic response in the body is because it poisons the body .

Completely wrong. Lets have biology lesson.

Pot works by THC and other cannibanoids entering the brain and binding with special chemical receptors in your brain, specifically, the receptor designed for anandamide, a natural body produced chemical that has to do with pleasure.

Cannibanoids bond with these receptors and affect the release of other chemicals and neurotransmiter, compared to alcohol, which makes the neurons more fluid and harder to communicate. There is significant difference between being high and being drunk.

Here's a more detailed look at it:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1530.html

 

[ILoveYeshua]

they should just drop a big ass crate of hashish on fire over the middle east. all the crazy muslims would get stoned from the smoke and stop fighting. this would need to be followed with many shipments of pork rinds for the munchies and copies of matthew 15.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I agree it's a non issue, but you were comparing marijuana to alcohol and so was I.

No , you were comparing them , i was stating intoxication is intoxication and that pot smoking inhibts self control . So its a non issue if you have more control when you get high than when you are drunk , that doesnt prove you have the same self control when you are straight.


http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1953-01-01_2_page004.html?print=yes
"The new compound was marketed by Bayer under the name "Heroin." (The name is probably derived from "heroisch" which in German medical terminology means large, powerful, extreme, one with pronounced effect even in small doses.) Later this name became a synonym for the drug."

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20041003_202510_1296
"In 1898, Bayer, on Dreser's recommendation, launched heroin."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heroin/brain/
"The Bayer Company named it heroin and marketed it as less-addicting and less toxic alternative to morphine."
[/quote] You failed to miss where i said even if it was present in cough syrup , its a non issue because i had already stated (which you keep missing ) that i am not against marijuana use for medicinal reasons , only for recreational reasons , do i need to add i am also against getting stoned off cough syrup for recreational reasons? The point was that cough syrup ideally is used for medicinal reasons so all that stuff about heroine in cough syrup is a non issue . No one said they were against it for medical reasons .

I said this right before I quoted myself.-->As I said in another thread about marijuana:

When was I answering myself? I think you're getting way confused here. I stated that I was quoting myself and the whole post was in response to you, I was speaking to you.

What arent you getting , just because you post a quote that doesnt say who the author is in a post to me , that happens to have the word *I* in the quote , doesnt mean i am going to know that the *I* in the quote is suppose to be YOU when you didnt state who the quote was from . It made it appear your question was to the person you quoted . You even admit that the quote came from another thread , that i didnt read , and i am not omniscient one more time , not sure how you arent grasping what i am saying .

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes, I am high, and yes, legalization will stop crime in more ways than the obvious. Aside from not having to deal with pot smokers anymore, we'ld stop all marijuana trafficing and large scale domestic grow-ops. No more gangs selling pot. We can control it and regulate it better, so maybe it won't be easier for kids to get than alcohol and tobacco.

People still bootleg liquor , this is not the answer.

Of course, only a completely end to prohibition will dramatically reduce crime. Prohibitions always create black markets. And it the case of drugs, it's a 100 billion$ a year market than even the poorest person can get into. Money. That's why disenfranchized black kids group together and sell drugs and get into turf wars. Because they come from poverty, and bad homes, and they want money and family, and a gang is both. End prohibition, and you take that drug market away from the gangs. Now the gangs have less reason to kill eachother in turf wars, since there's little financial reason to do so. But prohibition has done a lot of damage, and now a lot of these gangs are in bloodfueds. But with time, lack of money will dry the gangs up.

Not to mention, with legalization, we can control the outlawed drugs far more securely than we can while prohibited.

There are numerous benefits to legalization that far outweigh any possible harm from the drugs themselves.

That hasnt been proven and the crime in impoverished areas would remain , its not just from pot , in fact more is from crack cocain than pot .

Pot isn't a hallucinagen, it's a pyschedelic. Most people don't get high and see things. And it isn't a depressant, it's a euphoriant. People wouldn't smoke it if it made them depressed.

medical sources call it a depressant , i beleive them not a pot smokers magazine .

It makes reference to 1 study that it doesn't even name to say that girls who toke up are 4 times more likely to get pregnant than those who don't. Not because pot makes you pregnant. but because you might get high and have sex because pot made you have sex. Maybe they're just party girls that don't use protection?

The study was named and the college who did it named , you must not have read the entire article .

Show me

someone who's gotten cancer from pot. And then explain to me why any of these "health risks" mean a damn thing when we have tobacco, a legal substance that kills a half million people a year.

You are kidding me , real medical sources all say it causes cancer and you are asking for evidence of that? Ive already given it , they dont usually include peoples names .

BTW, http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml is a much more balanced and comprehensive look into many of the diffent aspects of smoking pot.

Actually doctors have more balanced look at the effects on the body than a pot glorifying page.

You have no idea why people want to get high. If you did, you'ld want it legalized too.



And which is too blame, your friends, or a plant. If you're going to do drugs, you have to have self control. That's what seperates the enlightened and casual user from the addicted user.

There is no reason people like me have to suffer because your friends couldn't get their act straight.

and they said the same things you say now . I wasnt born yesterday . I admitted ive done it myself and had many friends who did , but i have no idea.....................right

You say wine is ok because it has medical benefits and there is a connoisseurship involved with it. Pot has a connoisseurship, and for many users, it enhances life, it makes it simply better, which hey, some people like quality of life over quantity of life, although one can consume pot in ways that are completely healthy.

No , i didnt say anything about a "connoisseurship". I said i dont have a problem with drinking in moderation since the bible allows for it and there are medicinal uses for limited moderated use .

The Bible speaks out against alcohol intoxication dozens of times as you've shown. Not once does it mention pot, yet you're saying that alcohol, in moderation, is ok, but even moderate use of pot is bad, even though the heaviest use possible couldn't exceed a moderate amount of wine.

Complete double standard.

Lets see , for the third time in these discussions with you , ive stated that an argument from silence is no argument , the bible doesnt say you cant sniff gas or glue or shoot heroine either , but it does mention drug use , primarily the kind you mentioned " to expand the mind" because that is what pagans did in sorcery . The bible is clear to keep the mind clear and i have given evidence , you can keep repeating yourself to me , but my response wont change and your beating a dead horse.

Please cite your evidence that the heaviest pot smoking isnt as bad for your body as very moderate wine consumption from a medical source not a pot smoker site .

No, I know 2 devout Christians that smoke for this purpose.

And the mother in texas who drowned her children in the bathtub earlier this year said she was a devout christian , what does that mean exactly .....it doesnt support anything .

I could enter any job within at most, 6 months. Though what got me the most was your veiled attack on my judgement.

Yes , if you stopped smoking pot for at least a few months to get the traces out of your system so you could pass a drug test , like i stated before . I provided medical evidence that judgment is imparied while high on pot . Yours included but at least you admit it would take you 6 months before you could pass required drug tests for many jobs .

Completely wrong. Lets have biology lesson.

Pot works by THC and other cannibanoids entering the brain and binding with special chemical receptors in your brain, specifically, the receptor designed for anandamide, a natural body produced chemical that has to do with pleasure.

Cannibanoids bond with these receptors and affect the release of other chemicals and neurotransmiter, compared to alcohol, which makes the neurons more fluid and harder to communicate. There is significant difference between being high and being drunk.

None of that changes that THC is a poison like i said before , again non issue and didnt adress what i said .

Weve gone round and round and like i said before , if you want to stay stoned , more power to you , but its bad for you and in my opinion should not be legalized and is not moral before God .

You can tell me the same thing 50 more times and that wont change .

 

[ILoveYeshua]

is coffee poison like?

 

[Angel4Truth]

snip double post sorry

 

[marblehead]

No , you were comparing them , i was stating intoxication is intoxication and that pot smoking inhibts self control . So its a non issue if you have more control when you get high than when you are drunk , that doesnt prove you have the same self control when you are straight.

You first compared them by quoting a bunch of verses that apply to alcohol and saying they apply to pot also.

I don't even know how you would go about measuring self control between being high and sober. When I'm high I don't black out like I sometimes do while drunk. I don't do things when I'm high that I wouldn't do if I was sober except for laugh more, think more, enjoy life more and am sometimes slow to react. I don't lose all reason and go wild and commit crimes when I'm high. I control what I do when I'm high except sometimes when I get a case of uncontrollable laughter.

You failed to miss where i said even if it was present in cough syrup , its a non issue because i had already stated (which you keep missing ) that i am not against marijuana use for medicinal reasons , only for recreational reasons , do i need to add i am also against getting stoned off cough syrup for recreational reasons? The point was that cough syrup ideally is used for medicinal reasons so all that stuff about heroine in cough syrup is a non issue . No one said they were against it for medical reasons .

Well, first you said this:

Well no , heroine was never part of cough syrup , that would be morphine and now coedine because its safer . Heroine is dirty cheaply made morphine . The opiate that makes heroine was part of it , you are a little confused here because they are similar . Opiates are respiratory supressing . I do believe its a myth that heroine was ever used .

Then I corrected you with my wikipedia link and you said this:

considering that anyone can edit a post and write anything they want at wikipedia , thats not a very good source to prove that . Please cite a real medical source and it might have merit . Wikipedia has been in the news many times for having fraudulent liable articles that have no basis in fact .

...and I posted links to other sources.

What arent you getting , just because you post a quote that doesnt say who the author is in a post to me , that happens to have the word *I* in the quote , doesnt mean i am going to know that the *I* in the quote is suppose to be YOU when you didnt state who the quote was from . It made it appear your question was to the person you quoted . You even admit that the quote came from another thread , that i didnt read , and i am not omniscient one more time , not sure how you arent grasping what i am saying .

No, it is you who are not grasping what I am saying. I'll post what I posted directly before the quote again for you right now. As I said in another thread about marijuana:
^That's it, and if you still don't get it then go back and read what I said right before I posted the quote on post #43.

 

[Harlan Norris]

To all you dope smokin dreamers,sorry,pots not going to be decriminalised.You see it's about money.The suppliers and the intradiction,depend on it being illegal for the fantastic living it provides.The dangers are worth it to all.It is the consumer that pays the supplier,and intradiction is paid for out of everyones pocket.The consumer also pays with their job if they get caught in a random drug test,which is required by the insureance carriers.Yes they are making money on dope too.Is even the thought of giving up your drug so distasteful?Is it really worth what it costs?Like I wrote, I've smoked a lot of dope.I think I can say with authority what it's effect is.It definately doesn't make one smarter.People say they aren't addicted to it.Ok,quit.Quit for a month.Go about your life as usual,but don't smoke ANY dope.That's 30 days.You can do that standing on your head,and who knows, you just might be clean when that random comes around.Let me know how it goes.

 

[RenHoek]

Wow, I go away for a few hours and civil war breaks out!

First I would like to address some earlier posts.

Why do you think the bible should be considered in this matter?

The Bible is the best source to determine if the God we live for would have issues with pot.

The bible forbids intoxication and wine is ok in moderation only and the bible is clear on it.

I think this is a bit too strong a statement. The Bible does not forbid intoxication. It does warn of the dangers. Jesus made wine at an event where people were already “well drunk”.

Joh 2:10 -

And he said to him, "Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!"

If this were sin, why would He fuel it? I think we need to look at “time and place” to see if there is a problem. When hanging out with friends and/or relaxing, what is the issue? When driving or babysitting, or skydiving, most will agree it is not the smartest thing to do.

But there are reasons you wont be in certain jobs ever and its not because you have a clear mind on drugs , many drunks lose many jobs and its not because alcohol is illegal , because its not . Its because those who are drunk have poor judgments and i believe the same can be said for those who are high .

There are many reasons I will not have certain jobs. Again, we are looking at circumstances. If you are high or drunk on the job, bad idea and not what your employer is looking for most likely. Random drug tests to me are an invasion of privacy. What I do on my own time is mine. As long as it does not interfere with work, it should be a non-issue.

but the fact remains that pot was never mentioned in the bible and I don't see what the bible has to do with the legality of pot.

To those of us who believe, it is apt to draw parallels in substances with similar effect. Not exactly the same, correct, but I am a smoker so I do speak knowledgably of the difference.

No , it isnt . Both alcohol and pot are depressants , and pot has as added haloucinogenic quality , which actually makes it worse.

I have neither seen anything on pot, nor has it made me depressed. What it is classified as is irrelevant to whether it is ok. It affects everyone different and it is up to the individual to assess the changes and determine if it is something to be continued

medical sources call it a depressant , i beleive them not a pot smokers magazine .

“Medical sources” came up with Reefer Madness which is chock full of lies. I think the truth in this case, as in most debates, lies somewhere in the middle. Is it as good for you as working out? No. Is it as bad for you as crack dipped in ice? No.

Genesis 9:21 Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. (reason was disabled here).

I think we need to look further. It is the nakedness that was the sin. To me this is better taken as a warning not to allow drunkenness to weaken you to the point of sin.

Genesis 19:32 "Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father.'' (reason was disabled here)

Lot was wasted to the point of unconsciousness. Again, it is the excess that caused the actions, or rather the stupor. Interestingly, it is not said that this was sin. Either way, we do not blame the wine, but the person.

Leviticus 10:9 "Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, 10."that you may distinguish between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean (drunkeness inhibits reasoning abilities)

This is a command to Aaron and the Levites. Context, in my opinion, makes this part of the old covenant and not apt for this discussion.



Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?




1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come--all are yours. 23 And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.



1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.



I think these verses help us to work through the things the Bible does not cover explicitly. As long as we are not brought under the power of pot, which is addiction (mental or physical) in my opinion, or put it higher (no pun intended) than God Himself, I think it is fine.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, intoxicating drink arouses brawling, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. (intoxication - or in the case of being stoned , ones reasoning is inhibited and one is given to behavior that is not seemly and morals are diminished)

Proverbs 23: 30. Those who linger long at the wine, those who go in search of mixed wine.
31. Do not look on the wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it swirls around smoothly;
32. at the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like a viper.
33. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart will utter perverse things. (intoxication causes one to lose reasoning ability)

Valid warnings for fools who rush in with no warning. Caution and prudence are always good.

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes intoxicating drink; 5. lest they drink and forget the law, and pervert the justice of all the afflicted. (reason and morals diminished )

You conveniently left out the verses that immediately follow…

6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to those who are bitter of heart. 7 Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his misery no more.



How is this reconciled as “never drink or be drunk”?

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through intoxicating drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink, they are swallowed up by wine, they are out of the way through intoxicating drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. (self explanitory)

Continued abuse leads to downfall, agreed.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

A sound mind is one lined up with God’s spirit, agreed.



The point to all this is that we are allowed many things. Some people should never drink or smoke anything because they cannot keep that substance from controlling them. Other have little trouble in this area, and I see no reason to outlaw it. It is up to us to understand our strengths, weaknesses, and position in the Body and live our lives according to God’s plan for our lives.

 

[loriersea]

To all you dope smokin dreamers,sorry,pots not going to be decriminalised.You see it's about money.The suppliers and the intradiction,depend on it being illegal for the fantastic living it provides.The dangers are worth it to all.It is the consumer that pays the supplier,and intradiction is paid for out of everyones pocket.The consumer also pays with their job if they get caught in a random drug test,which is required by the insureance carriers.Yes they are making money on dope too.Is even the thought of giving up your drug so distasteful?Is it really worth what it costs?Like I wrote, I've smoked a lot of dope.I think I can say with authority what it's effect is.It definately doesn't make one smarter.People say they aren't addicted to it.Ok,quit.Quit for a month.Go about your life as usual,but don't smoke ANY dope.That's 30 days.You can do that standing on your head,and who knows, you just might be clean when that random comes around.Let me know how it goes.

I'm not sure that's an accurate assessment of the situation. As I said before, marijuana is kind of de facto legal in Ann Arbor (the penalty for possession is a $25 fine), and I saw no evidence that there was any kind of serious drug problem there. In fact, it was the safest, nicest, and, frankly, smartest place I've ever lived. When marijuana is not criminalized, people seem more able to use it in moderation. I know many people from there who smoke marijuana the way I drink alcohol; it's just something they do a couple of times a month, after dinner, to relax and unwind. I think the idea that marijuana is addictive is no more valid than the idea that alcohol is addictive; sure, the possibility is there, and for some people it is a very real possibility, and they should be careful (alcohol is legal, but my husband doesn't drink more than a couple of beers once or twice a month, because he has a long history of alcoholism in his family, and knows that that is something that could be a possibility for him should he begin drinking regularly), but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

 

[Harlan Norris]

I'm not sure that's an accurate assessment of the situation. As I said before, marijuana is kind of de facto legal in Ann Arbor (the penalty for possession is a $25 fine), and I saw no evidence that there was any kind of serious drug problem there. In fact, it was the safest, nicest, and, frankly, smartest place I've ever lived. When marijuana is not criminalized, people seem more able to use it in moderation. I know many people from there who smoke marijuana the way I drink alcohol; it's just something they do a couple of times a month, after dinner, to relax and unwind. I think the idea that marijuana is addictive is no more valid than the idea that alcohol is addictive; sure, the possibility is there, and for some people it is a very real possibility, and they should be careful (alcohol is legal, but my husband doesn't drink more than a couple of beers once or twice a month, because he has a long history of alcoholism in his family, and knows that that is something that could be a possibility for him should he begin drinking regularly), but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

But pot is illegal isn't it.If I were not involved with drugs I wouldn't care if it was legal or not.Pot may have some medical uses,can't say for shure since I never used it for medicine.So, in the context of medicating a real condition,it's use may be valid.However the vast majority of those that post here are not using pot and other drugs for medication as perscribed by a physican.They are using it to get high,and avoid life.They are probably unaware of the depth of their involvement.So, I offered a challenge.Quit for a month.30 days.No big deal.If one doesn't have a problem with quitting then quitting for a month shouldn't be difficult.It will prove to those that smoke that they are not addicts.That alone will make it worthwhile.On the 31st day they can twist one up and celebrate.

 

[RenHoek]

I offered a challenge.Quit for a month.30 days.

Have before and probably will again at some point.

Here is a better one. Quit eating food that you think tastes good to prove to me you are not addicted to the pleasure you get from a steak or a McDLT (hot side hot you know). Point is, no one has to prove anything to anyone but himself and God.

They are using it to get high,and avoid life

Part 1: True – most people use it to get high

Part 2: Not always true. People do it for pleasure. If one does not commit sin while doing it and it is not a problem with your walk with God, what is the problem?

 

[Harlan Norris]

Have before and probably will again at some point.

Here is a better one. Quit eating food that you think tastes good to prove to me you are not addicted to the pleasure you get from a steak or a McDLT (hot side hot you know). Point is, no one has to prove anything to anyone but himself and God.


Part 1: True – most people use it to get high

Part 2: Not always true. People do it for pleasure. If one does not commit sin while doing it and it is not a problem with your walk with God, what is the problem?

Is it a sin to break the law?Shure I'll take you up on your food challenge.Give me the paramiters.

 

[RenHoek]

Is it a sin to break the law?Shure I'll take you up on your food challenge.Give me the paramiters.

I think it depends on the law.



I have no real need for you to go on a diet, although I am flattered . My point was that we all do things that give us pleasure. We just need to make sure they are under control and not placed above God.

 

[Harlan Norris]

I think it depends on the law.



I have no real need for you to go on a diet, although I am flattered . My point was that we all do things that give us pleasure. We just need to make sure they are under control and not placed above God.

While it's true that some laws are unjust,I have to disagree about drug laws.I've been clean and sober now for just over 2 years.I started smokin dope at around 16.That quickly led to other things.That's a lot of wasted time in a mans life.Actually, freedom from these addictions brings me more pleasure than the dope ever did.Of course, no one could sell me that while I was useing.Now though, I know the difference,and the difference is substantial.I can finally find my car keys!As far as my walk with God is concerned,well, the door to hell can be easily found through drug use,and many go through it,never to return.I'd be careful if I were you.Give it some more thought.

 

[RenHoek]

well, the door to hell can be easily found through drug use,and many go through it,never to return.I'd be careful if I were you.Give it some more thought.

Sound advice all. I treat the whole thing like alcohol. Don’t use it early in the day and the sort. Not every day. Don’t drive or operate a steam shovel ….



I feel it has no control over me. Do I enjoy it? sure. But I like pizza too and as long as I don’t get too fat, I see no problem. Mmmmmm pot and pizza. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...h=101&tbnw=70&hl=en&start=21&prev=/images?q%

 

[Harlan Norris]

Sound advice all. I treat the whole thing like alcohol. Don’t use it early in the day and the sort. Not every day. Don’t drive or operate a steam shovel ….



I feel it has no control over me. Do I enjoy it? sure. But I like pizza too and as long as I don’t get too fat, I see no problem. Mmmmmm pot and pizza. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...h=101&tbnw=70&hl=en&start=21&prev=/images?q%

Mmmmmmm good example.

 

[RenHoek]

Can you go wrong with Homer?... ..... .....oh yeah D'oh

 

[Cerberus~]

People still bootleg liquor , this is not the answer.

Yea, maybe some backwoods Kentucky hicks. 99.5% of America buys it, legally. Similar would happen with drugs if they were legalized.

That hasnt been proven and the crime in impoverished areas would remain , its not just from pot , in fact more is from crack cocain than pot .

First off, I was talking about complete legalization of all or most currently prohibited drugs. That's the only way we'll see a return to pre-drug war crime rates.

History has proven it. Crime increased with alcohol prohibition, and decreased when it ended. It climbed again to similar levels as in the 30's. We're still at those levels. Crime was lowest when nothing was prohibited.

It's just basic economics. Supply and demand. Market value. Didn't you learn anything from the summer gas hikes. The oil market is basically modeled after the drug market.

Or maybe these stiking simularities only come to me because I'm high.

medical sources call it a depressant , i beleive them not a pot smokers magazine .

Ok, where does a group like the AMA call pot a depressant?

The study was named and the college who did it named , you must not have read the entire article .

That's for the first study, not the second. And it still doesn't provide a link. Not to mention one study is just one study, and we don't know how they studied it because there's no link.

It's like, a friend of a friend of a friend told me.

You are kidding me , real medical sources all say it causes cancer and you are asking for evidence of that? Ive already given it , they dont usually include peoples names .

Marijuana does not cause cancer. Marijuana does not kill people. So yes, go to the AMA, national lung association or whatever, and show me where they say pot causes cancer.

What they'll say is, it might cause cancer, because they don't know. But marijuana is not carcenogenic, is not pumped with tons of chemicals like tabacco, and can be consumed without actually smoking the plant.

Even if it did cause cancer, you can drink pot, you can eat it, you can vapourize it making the issue completely null and void.

Actually doctors have more balanced look at the effects on the body than a pot glorifying page.

It's nice to know you didn't even open it up.

The site present nothing but the facts. It's more accurate than any NIDA studies or any amount of anti-drug blogs.

and they said the same things you say now . I wasnt born yesterday . I admitted ive done it myself and had many friends who did , but i have no idea.....................right

No you don't. You pretend like it's this thing that impairs you, makes you lose control and do stupid stuff, gives you cancer, makes you lazy and stupid and

No , i didnt say anything about a "connoisseurship". I said i dont have a problem with drinking in moderation since the bible allows for it and there are medicinal uses for limited moderated use .

The Bible does not prohibit moderate pot use. Moderate pot use does not qualify as excessive intoxication.

Lets see , for the third time in these discussions with you , ive stated that an argument from silence is no argument , the bible doesnt say you cant sniff gas or glue or shoot heroine either , but it does mention drug use ,

primarily the kind you mentioned " to expand the mind" because that is what pagans did in sorcery . The bible is clear to keep the mind clear and i have given evidence , you can keep repeating yourself to me , but my response wont change and your beating a dead horse.

Again, that would have to apply to pharmecuetical companies, doctors and prescription fillers before pot smokers. Pot is a seed bearing plant, which are blessed in Genesis.

The Bible says nothing about pot, but you say pot is worse than alcohol, which the Bible admonishes several times. It isn't an arguement of silence, it's an arguement of "you're applying a double standard".

Please cite your evidence that the heaviest pot smoking isnt as bad for your body as very moderate wine consumption from a medical source not a pot smoker site .

I wasn't referring to health, but to intoxication. It is true that someone drinking glass after glass of wine would quickly become more intoxicated than someone who was smoking joint after joint and had been doing so for an hour.

You only get so high, the ceiling with alcohol is when you're dead.

And the mother in texas who drowned her children in the bathtub earlier this year said she was a devout christian , what does that mean exactly .....it doesnt support anything .

Proves that some Christians kill their kids, just like I proved some good Christians smoke pot.

None of that changes that THC is a poison like i said before , again non issue and didnt adress what i said .

A poison tends to kill you with a large enough dose. Alcohol is a poison. Enough wine, and you will die. But you'll get sick and pass out before you die from a THC OD. And it takes way more than any stoner would want to smoke to get to that level.
After the links I've given you, saying it's a poison is simply an uneducated statement.

Weve gone round and round and like i said before , if you want to stay stoned , more power to you , but its bad for you and in my opinion should not be legalized and is not moral before God .

You can tell me the same thing 50 more times and that wont change

Again, you'ld support higher crime rather than legalized entertainment, and for no good reason either.

It's sad to see you're so close-minded. You'll never find truth if you refuse to look at the whole map.