Skinny Dipping
- Thread starter GordieHowe
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actually yes. i think that this is a serious problem in the church. i dont understand why we chose to ignore explicit instructions. why do we pick and choose what we follow? the problem is that we try to mold our culture in with the Bible instead of molding the Word into our lives.
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Person of
Ο άγγελος του υποκόσμου
All you have to do is look at how differently people lived in different generations. Not just culturally, but also in following God. In the Old Testament certain foods were prohibited from eating. In the New Testament we see things change.
The little things (ie. hair, roles, etc.) are things that were spoken to, to a totally different culture than now.
I can tell you that by experience, I know without a shadow of a doubt that God uses women in the church for preaching, prophesying, etc. My own mother gave a prophetic word in her church a couple months back. A woman was healed of cancer.
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i am not saying that God doesnt work through woman and im not saying woman can't prophets. all im saying is that its in the New Testament. its a tricky area, il admit and it seems strange. but who am i to pick and choose what seems strange and what doesnt.
look man, you keep bringing up how we have a totally different culture. and you yourself admitted the in the New testament we see things change. that was the New Covenant left for us to live by. nothing has changed since then. God's Word still stands. i get that our culture is different than from the Old Testament times. obviously thats true. but that is exactly what Christ created the New Covenant. to make it relavant for us. its not going to change man. whatever is in the New Testament we gotta try our hardest to abide by. i mean if it in the New Testament, how can we choose to ignore it?
look man, you keep bringing up how we have a totally different culture. and you yourself admitted the in the New testament we see things change. that was the New Covenant left for us to live by. nothing has changed since then. God's Word still stands. i get that our culture is different than from the Old Testament times. obviously thats true. but that is exactly what Christ created the New Covenant. to make it relavant for us. its not going to change man. whatever is in the New Testament we gotta try our hardest to abide by. i mean if it in the New Testament, how can we choose to ignore it?
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Balugon
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lol, this thread is two years old. It would be a miracle if the OP even came back to read the recent responses. But, since I'm in support of skinny dipping, I felt like making note that I don't think even one person bothered to quote the Bible. That, and your pretty much wasting your breathe, because both sides already present here aren't going to change their beliefs any time soon.
That said, " 1 In the year that the supreme commander, sent by Sargon king of Assyria, came to Ashdod and attacked and captured it 2 at that time the LORD spoke through Isaiah son of Amoz. He said to him, Take off the sackcloth from your body and the sandals from your feet. And he did so, going around stripped and barefoot.
3 Then the LORD said, Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush, 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite exiles, young and old, with buttocks baredto Egypts shame." Isaiah 20:1-4.
God told Isaiah to walk around in the buff for 3 years. If showing other people nudity was sin, God wouldn't have been able to command Isaiah to do it, because God does not tempt people to sin (James 1:13). Therefore, it's not sin. Doctors deal with nudity all the time. There are male gynecologists (they deal with women's reproductive and genital health). We don't hear tons of stories of rapes and assaults going on. Why is that? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual. People who deal with it on a regular basis and see it so much in non-sexual situations (like doctor's offices) know that.
The problem is is that Christians have tended to stay away from nudity with a ten foot pole because they think it's dangerous, and they won't be able to get over the negative side effects of believing lies about it until they are around it for long enough. It's like believing the food on your dinner table is poisoned. You say it's poisoned and don't eat it, and yet if you don't test it, then you suffer from starvation, which may have been the very thing that caused you to believe the lie in the first place. It's a vicious circle. I've been to nudist parks plenty of times and can tell you that nudity isn't the big sexual deal that many Christians make it out to be. Stop letting internet inappropriate content and what culture tells you be your guide, and perhaps ask a few doctors their opinion.
And as for more biblical backing, Adam and Eve were nude in the Garden. They fell. Christ said he came back to restore what the enemy stole from us. Even if clothing was something that was added (which I would dispute otherwise due to what Genesis mentions), Christ would have come to redeem us from the emotional need for it. Christ pointed to the beginning as his authority for how marriage should be (one man and one woman). Obviously God's original design is important to God, and I bet it's changed a whole lot less than people think it has. We fight to restore marriages and the institution of marriage quite a bit, why not other aspects of God's original design?
That said, " 1 In the year that the supreme commander, sent by Sargon king of Assyria, came to Ashdod and attacked and captured it 2 at that time the LORD spoke through Isaiah son of Amoz. He said to him, Take off the sackcloth from your body and the sandals from your feet. And he did so, going around stripped and barefoot.
3 Then the LORD said, Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush, 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite exiles, young and old, with buttocks baredto Egypts shame." Isaiah 20:1-4.
God told Isaiah to walk around in the buff for 3 years. If showing other people nudity was sin, God wouldn't have been able to command Isaiah to do it, because God does not tempt people to sin (James 1:13). Therefore, it's not sin. Doctors deal with nudity all the time. There are male gynecologists (they deal with women's reproductive and genital health). We don't hear tons of stories of rapes and assaults going on. Why is that? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual. People who deal with it on a regular basis and see it so much in non-sexual situations (like doctor's offices) know that.
The problem is is that Christians have tended to stay away from nudity with a ten foot pole because they think it's dangerous, and they won't be able to get over the negative side effects of believing lies about it until they are around it for long enough. It's like believing the food on your dinner table is poisoned. You say it's poisoned and don't eat it, and yet if you don't test it, then you suffer from starvation, which may have been the very thing that caused you to believe the lie in the first place. It's a vicious circle. I've been to nudist parks plenty of times and can tell you that nudity isn't the big sexual deal that many Christians make it out to be. Stop letting internet inappropriate content and what culture tells you be your guide, and perhaps ask a few doctors their opinion.
And as for more biblical backing, Adam and Eve were nude in the Garden. They fell. Christ said he came back to restore what the enemy stole from us. Even if clothing was something that was added (which I would dispute otherwise due to what Genesis mentions), Christ would have come to redeem us from the emotional need for it. Christ pointed to the beginning as his authority for how marriage should be (one man and one woman). Obviously God's original design is important to God, and I bet it's changed a whole lot less than people think it has. We fight to restore marriages and the institution of marriage quite a bit, why not other aspects of God's original design?
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Balugon said:
Just 2 things:
Firstly, skinny dipping situation is so different from a doctor's office and medical practices. And secondly, pertaining to your quoted passage, it spoke about nakedness and shame or nakedness associated with disgrace (after "the fall"). If you want you can ask the Holy Spirit to clear this matter with you. Only He can make a person understands what His Word really means. That's all. Thank you.
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what do you mean why do i associate the two? Christ's live is our standard. there is no other. He is our example to live by. the New Testament is instruction on how to live. you say you abide by the 10 Commandments, why? infact Jesus specifically said you dont even need to do that. He says that the whole law is fullfilled by loving God with all our heart and to love our neighbor as ourselvses. He says that through these two commandments, we satisfy all of them. now, im not saying you shouldnt strive to keep the law, which by the way was a lot more than just 10 commandments, im saying that it should not be your number one priority. if loving God and loving others fullfills the whole law, why even bother with any other command?
you say that is really is how you interpret the Bible and i agree completely. but the difference is that the Bible is being interpreted by human wisdom rather than being spiritually discerned.
check that other thread, im about to reply to your other post man.
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LovelyLeah93b
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I'm a very modest person now, but I grew up out in the country, and skinny-dipped a lot when I was younger (under 12 or so), but only with other girls (cousins), and in a secluded place. Our parents knew about it and were okay with it. We didn't think much about it. As far as being naked in front of each other, we thought of it as about the same as taking a bath with each other. I probably wouldn't have done that with boys, especially boys I didn't know, any more than I would have taken a bath with boys. I don't think I would do that now. Even being naked with other girls makes me a little uncomfortable.
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jminnesota
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i dont see any harm in skinny dipping if its just swimming and nothing sexual happen
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That is not necessarily true. People who engage in social nudity, as well as cultures who are naked or largely so, don't go around in a state of perpetual arousal. Rather they find that environment less sexual. It's our society that has made the human body such a powerful sexual symbol.
John
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jminnesota
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when i was a teen me and my male cousins would go skinny dipping and sometimes we would let girls join us and all we did was swim and i had not problem with it we never did anything sexual we just swam around we just went naked is all i mean bikinis dont really cover much anyways so the girls just took em off.
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"I am a boy who went hiking recently with a female family friend around my age."
That's good, you're going out & doing things, not just texting; admirable. Spend time with God's daughters and take care of them, you'll make Him be a very happy Father.
"We went to a secluded lake she knew of to take a break and to eat some food. It was about ninety degrees, and we really wanted to cool off, so we decided to go swimming. She had a swimsuit, along with a few other supplies, that she permanently kept in a backpack that she used for hiking. I said I didn't have a swimsuit, so she asked me if I wanted to skinny dip."
This is a very big compliment; treat it as such, and don't let her down. If a girl feels safe enough to be stark naked around you, alone, that shows a vast amount of trust that very few people are seen as being worthy of. Please don't burn her, it's one of the most damaging things you can do to a girl.
"I said I would be uncomfortable with a naked girl."
I don't know the reasoning behind this decision, but if it's because you don't think you'd be able to control yourself, I applaud you greatly for knowing your strength. If it's because you're uncomfortable around any naked body, I highly advise you to look deep in your soul and see if you, as said in previous comments, automatically equate nakedness with sex. This will take much prayer, but nothing bad ever happened as a result of praying a lot.
"She said ok, if I thought I would be tempted that is ok."
Good, she's understanding; this could mean a few different things if she pushed you. Maybe it's just something she's used to, and doesn't understand why you wouldn't want to; maybe she would be the one wanting something sexual. Stay on high alert, anyone, if you're being pushed into a situation you don't like. Once again, prayer about it, prayer before anything happens that God will always guide you. "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you." (James 4:8)
"So she asked me if just I wanted to skinny dip. She said she knew herself, and she wouldn't be uncomfortable or tempted."
Once again, know your strength. She knew she could handle it (though of course, less of a problem for a girl; men have twice as much brain matter dedicated to the sex drive, and are much more aroused by visuals).
"So I went skinny dipping and she swam in her bathing suit. Was that wrong?"
Overall, both of you handled the situation very well. A lot could've gone wrong, but nothing did. You have excellent self-control and insight; you went through the whole situation with good intentions, and that's perhaps the most important part. The human body is only sexual when we see it this way, it's certainly not created to be an object of lust. Remember, God created plants & declared them good; He created animals & declared them good; He created man and woman and declared them "VERY good". It's the devil that makes us have such a polluted view of ourselves. As a simple answer, no, I think you did nothing wrong, though do weigh the points that others have brought up, they have a lot of wisdom that we all could benefit from.
My only concern here, assuming there really were no sexual intentions, is the openness to the oppertunity to sin. But if, as it sounds like, you were both strong enough to tell Satan to stuff it, I don't think you did anything wrong. Walking through a store gives you the oppertunity to spend, but if your strong enough, it won't be a problem. The Catholic Church has a saint that spent every night for a significant portion of his life with prostitutes, but instead of using them, he brought them the Gospel, converting many of the & freeing them from their previous lives. Eventually, he was killed as he was walking out of a brothel, and following his funeral procession was an abundance of former prostitutes that followed him with candles and lanterns. Sometimes, being close to the oppertunity to sin can show the love & protection of God in a very powerful way. If nothing else, whether you know it or not, you made the girl feel much safer and happier about you and the world.
As far as private parts being "unpresentable", this may just be a reference to the culture of the time. There was no instruction given that "Do not show your genitalia to anyone but your spouse", as such instructions are commonly given in Paul's letters; simply a reference to these parts being "unpresentable" may just be how they were seen by Paul and the people he was around. Do keep in mind that the purpose of this entire passage is showing the importance of every part of the body of Christ, not a lesson in Jesus-based dress code. I don't know if my interpretation here is right or not, please do correct me if you think it needs changed, I want to be a professor of theology one day so these lessons would be much appreciated, and thank you all for the excellent discussion throughout the comments.
I highly advise everyone to look up Jason Evert on YouTube; he has an abundance of excellent talks on various points of Theology of the Body. He's also written several excellent books on the subject (available on Amazon, of course; I most recomment the Theology of His/Her Body flip book, it literally changed my life & deepened my spirituality farther than I thought possible).
That's good, you're going out & doing things, not just texting; admirable. Spend time with God's daughters and take care of them, you'll make Him be a very happy Father.
"We went to a secluded lake she knew of to take a break and to eat some food. It was about ninety degrees, and we really wanted to cool off, so we decided to go swimming. She had a swimsuit, along with a few other supplies, that she permanently kept in a backpack that she used for hiking. I said I didn't have a swimsuit, so she asked me if I wanted to skinny dip."
This is a very big compliment; treat it as such, and don't let her down. If a girl feels safe enough to be stark naked around you, alone, that shows a vast amount of trust that very few people are seen as being worthy of. Please don't burn her, it's one of the most damaging things you can do to a girl.
"I said I would be uncomfortable with a naked girl."
I don't know the reasoning behind this decision, but if it's because you don't think you'd be able to control yourself, I applaud you greatly for knowing your strength. If it's because you're uncomfortable around any naked body, I highly advise you to look deep in your soul and see if you, as said in previous comments, automatically equate nakedness with sex. This will take much prayer, but nothing bad ever happened as a result of praying a lot.
"She said ok, if I thought I would be tempted that is ok."
Good, she's understanding; this could mean a few different things if she pushed you. Maybe it's just something she's used to, and doesn't understand why you wouldn't want to; maybe she would be the one wanting something sexual. Stay on high alert, anyone, if you're being pushed into a situation you don't like. Once again, prayer about it, prayer before anything happens that God will always guide you. "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you." (James 4:8)
"So she asked me if just I wanted to skinny dip. She said she knew herself, and she wouldn't be uncomfortable or tempted."
Once again, know your strength. She knew she could handle it (though of course, less of a problem for a girl; men have twice as much brain matter dedicated to the sex drive, and are much more aroused by visuals).
"So I went skinny dipping and she swam in her bathing suit. Was that wrong?"
Overall, both of you handled the situation very well. A lot could've gone wrong, but nothing did. You have excellent self-control and insight; you went through the whole situation with good intentions, and that's perhaps the most important part. The human body is only sexual when we see it this way, it's certainly not created to be an object of lust. Remember, God created plants & declared them good; He created animals & declared them good; He created man and woman and declared them "VERY good". It's the devil that makes us have such a polluted view of ourselves. As a simple answer, no, I think you did nothing wrong, though do weigh the points that others have brought up, they have a lot of wisdom that we all could benefit from.
My only concern here, assuming there really were no sexual intentions, is the openness to the oppertunity to sin. But if, as it sounds like, you were both strong enough to tell Satan to stuff it, I don't think you did anything wrong. Walking through a store gives you the oppertunity to spend, but if your strong enough, it won't be a problem. The Catholic Church has a saint that spent every night for a significant portion of his life with prostitutes, but instead of using them, he brought them the Gospel, converting many of the & freeing them from their previous lives. Eventually, he was killed as he was walking out of a brothel, and following his funeral procession was an abundance of former prostitutes that followed him with candles and lanterns. Sometimes, being close to the oppertunity to sin can show the love & protection of God in a very powerful way. If nothing else, whether you know it or not, you made the girl feel much safer and happier about you and the world.
As far as private parts being "unpresentable", this may just be a reference to the culture of the time. There was no instruction given that "Do not show your genitalia to anyone but your spouse", as such instructions are commonly given in Paul's letters; simply a reference to these parts being "unpresentable" may just be how they were seen by Paul and the people he was around. Do keep in mind that the purpose of this entire passage is showing the importance of every part of the body of Christ, not a lesson in Jesus-based dress code. I don't know if my interpretation here is right or not, please do correct me if you think it needs changed, I want to be a professor of theology one day so these lessons would be much appreciated, and thank you all for the excellent discussion throughout the comments.
I highly advise everyone to look up Jason Evert on YouTube; he has an abundance of excellent talks on various points of Theology of the Body. He's also written several excellent books on the subject (available on Amazon, of course; I most recomment the Theology of His/Her Body flip book, it literally changed my life & deepened my spirituality farther than I thought possible).
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eyeamnicegirl
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Oh my. Looks like only one other person (TAMUmpower) got the idea of what was happening there. I made a similar suggestion once when I was a teenager (hot tub instead of lake), and yes, our friendship was innocent, but I was ready for it not to be. You didn't take the bait, and that's fine; but believe me, she was hoping you would.
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