Six Day Creation? No Way!

[omega2xx]

Read through most of this. I have a Blog on this very topic that I cannot post here yet thetruth.life.

In essence you have a really bad math problem, literally, in Genesis.

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

As I state in my Blog how many hours are from evening to morning as stated in Genesis 1:5? (not 24). If God has just created light and separated it from darkness what is he speaking about?

In essence you have a really bad reading comprehension problem. The Bible does not say "and the evening and the morning were the first day." It says "God called the light day and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning , one day. Every 24 hour period had an evening and a morning.

The sun, moon, and all the stars were not created until the fourth "day" of creation.

Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also."

How can you have a 24hr day in Genesis 1:5 the first "day", if the sun did not exist until 1:16 the fourth "day"?

You don't need the sun to have light and darkness. All you need is light and the earth rotating.

While I agree that the study of Genesis is not paramount to ones salvation. I think this book, more than any other, keeps individuals from knowing the truth of Jesus Christ, because of illogical or crazy sounding new earth ideas.

Not if you take the time to study it. What is illogical and crazy is to think God would inspire a book that keeps people from knowing the truth about Jesus.

 

[Oseas]

In essence you have a really bad reading comprehension problem. The Bible does not say "and the evening and the morning were the first day." It says "God called the light day and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning , one day. Every 24 hour period had an evening and a morning.

You don't need the sun to have light and darkness. All you need is light and the earth rotating.

Not if you take the time to study it. What is illogical and crazy is to think God would inspire a book that keeps people from knowing the truth about Jesus.

To all
Genesis 1:5KJV ´5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the FIRST DAY.

Well, the author of Genesis, Moses, reveals unto us saying: Psalms 90:4: - "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."
Well, being One Day with the Lord as a thousand years, as was revealed to Moses by the Most High and Almighty God, then the evening with the Lord is as 500 years in human calendar, and morning another 500 years, evidently. We cannot reduce God unto our size, in human size, no? This is unacceptable.

By the way, Genesis 1:16 & 19 KJV - 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 19 And the evening and the morning were the Fourth Day.
Analysing the two verses: God made two great lights, so both are great, but one is lesser than other or vice-versa. In the other hand, these verses reveals that was made the Greater Light, and the Lesser Light. These two great lights have nothing to do with Sun and Moon. This is an invention. This theory is a mere and pure speculation.
If it were physically the Sun and Moon, it would be written, Sun and Moon, evidently, and not Greater Light and Less Light, by the way, the moon has no light of its own, but is a reflector of the light of the Sun, you all understood? Then what is the mystery revealed in these verses? What is de enigma to be deciphered? The word is with you all.

 

[omega2xx]

To all
Genesis 1:5KJV ´5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the FIRST DAY.

Well, the author of Genesis, Moses, reveals unto us saying: Psalms 90:4: - "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."
Well, being One Day with the Lord as a thousand years, as was revealed to Moses by the Most High and Almighty God, then the evening with the Lord is as 500 years in human calendar, and morning another 500 years, evidently. We cannot reduce God unto our size, in human size, no? This is unacceptable.

By the way, Genesis 1:16 & 19 KJV - 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 19 And the evening and the morning were the Fourth Day.
Analysing the two verses: God made two great lights, so both are great, but one is lesser than other or vice-versa. In the other hand, these verses reveals that was made the Greater Light, and the Lesser Light. These two great lights have nothing to do with Sun and Moon. This is an invention. This theory is a mere and pure speculation.
If it were physically the Sun and Moon, it would be written, Sun and Moon, evidently, and not Greater Light and Less Light, by the way, the moon has no light of its own, but is a reflector of the light of the Sun, you all understood? Then what is the mystery revealed in these verses? What is de enigma to be deciphered? The word is with you all.

Now I see the source of your problem. The KJ is not the most accurate translation.

You are right that the moon has not light of it own, and is only a reflection of the sun.

Some see the moon as symbolizing the church or Christians. Both should reflect the glory or the "Sun of righteousness( Mal 4:2)

 

[Alittlereality]

I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

A day of the lord is as a thousand years

From that we see god lives differently in time. So the early writers knew earth took millenia to form. And modern science has given us a visual framework ive seen. Rock studies show us the true age obviously.

 

[Edison Trent]

Now I see the source of your problem. The KJ is not the most accurate translation.

You are right that the moon has not light of it own, and is only a reflection of the sun.

Some see the moon as symbolizing the church or Christians. Both should reflect the glory or the "Sun of righteousness( Mal 4:2)

Yup, IMO, lesser light, the core of the earth, incased in darkness "the crust" yet is important for life on earth as well as the sun.

 

[Oseas]

Now I see the source of your problem. The KJ is not the most accurate translation.

You are right that the moon has not light of it own, and is only a reflection of the sun.

Some see the moon as symbolizing the church or Christians. Both should reflect the glory or the "Sun of righteousness( Mal 4:2)

You wrote: >>> Now I see the source of your problem. The KJ is not the most accurate translation.<<<

First, I have not any problem, you are inventing this. Well, if the Bible KJV is not the most accurate translation for you, and you saw dubits about the Book o the Lord in this version, anyway the KJV is one of the most accurate translation. Anyway, we all must know that those who have the Spirit of Christ do not get embarrassed by translations. Furthermore, all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

You wrote: >>>You are right that the moon has not light of it own, and is only a reflection of the sun.<<<

What you are saying to me is as whether I was referring to that, but that is your literal and materialist interpretation, in truth, physically and materially that is what men see before the eyes, but what I meant it is in the spiritual field, the material things are figures of spiritual things, do you understand? JESUS said to the Jews: Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from above, is above all. The Apostle Paul left expressed : For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1 Cor.2:v.11

You wrote: >>>Some see the moon as symbolizing the church or Christians. Both should reflect the glory or the "Sun of righteousness( Mal 4:2)<<<

To all. Here is what I meant and wanted to bring up about the Lesser light, WHO spiritually has not light of it own. In my message I asked: Then what is the mystery revealed in these verses? What is de enigma to be deciphered? Speaking about the Lesser light, who has not its own light, JESUS said: John 16:7-15
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; (why? it because he has not own light in him) but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, (because he has not own light) and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine it because he has not own light), and shall shew it unto you.

The question is: Who are the two great Lights MADE by the Most High God, our Almighty God? Who is the Greater Light and Who is the Lesser Light WHO God MADE in the Fourth Day, knowing that ONE Day with the Lord is as a thousand years, as says the Word of God? Note that both appear in Revelation 12:1-2&5. This is a deep mystery, a deep enigma to be deciphered, evidently. This is wonderful.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Every 24 hour period had an evening and a morning.

Actually the first day was more like 6 hours. The spindown rate of the earth is connected to the receding rate of the moon.

Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

 

[FireDragon76]

Poem or song? More like a folk tale or myth.

I think saying its a poem is just soft-peddling this. Lots of folk tales or legends have the sort of qualities you point out, with a defined structure and so forth. It's obviously not a scientific account as the author(s) seem more focused on the aesthetics of the storytelling.

We can know alot about the people from this story, they valued distinctions in making sense of their world- distinguishing things and putting them in their proper place. Genesis 1 is all about making distinctions between light and darkness, day and night, heaven and earth, the sun and the moon, then men and women. That's fairly consistent with what we see in much of the Old Testament's religious ethos.

 

[omega2xx]

Actually the first day was more like 6 hours. The spindown rate of the earth is connected to the receding rate of the moon.

Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

Do you have any evidence or am I just to take your word for it?

 

[omega2xx]

You wrote: >>> Now I see the source of your problem. The KJ is not the most accurate translation.<<<

First, I have not any problem, you are inventing this. Well, if the Bible KJV is not the most accurate translation for you, and you saw dubits about the Book o the Lord in this version, anyway the KJV is one of the most accurate translation. Anyway, we all must know that those who have the Spirit of Christ do not get embarrassed by translations. Furthermore, all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

You wrote: >>>You are right that the moon has not light of it own, and is only a reflection of the sun.<<<

What you are saying to me is as whether I was referring to that, but that is your literal and materialist interpretation, in truth, physically and materially that is what men see before the eyes, but what I meant it is in the spiritual field, the material things are figures of spiritual things, do you understand? JESUS said to the Jews: Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from above, is above all. The Apostle Paul left expressed : For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1 Cor.2:v.11

You wrote: >>>Some see the moon as symbolizing the church or Christians. Both should reflect the glory or the "Sun of righteousness( Mal 4:2)<<<

To all. Here is what I meant and wanted to bring up about the Lesser light, WHO spiritually has not light of it own. In my message I asked: Then what is the mystery revealed in these verses? What is de enigma to be deciphered? Speaking about the Lesser light, who has not its own light, JESUS said: John 16:7-15
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; (why? it because he has not own light in him) but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, (because he has not own light) and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine it because he has not own light), and shall shew it unto you.

The question is: Who are the two great Lights MADE by the Most High God, our Almighty God? Who is the Greater Light and Who is the Lesser Light WHO God MADE in the Fourth Day, knowing that ONE Day with the Lord is as a thousand years, as says the Word of God? Note that both appear in Revelation 12:1-2&5. This is a deep mystery, a deep enigma to be deciphered, evidently. This is wonderful.

I agree that most, probably all the physical things spiritual things, but if you think the KJ is the most accurate, I suggest you google "most accurate Bible."

 

[Edison Trent]

Do you have any evidence or am I just to take your word for it?

I think there is evidence that the lesser light statement in the bible is referencing something else (the core), the great light rules the day, and the lesser light rules the night. well there can't be two rulers at the same time in the same space, many times I have seen the moon with the sun in the day time hours. the moon doesn't give off light, it is sun light reflected off it from the sun. if the moon was to just drift away all of a sudden, life on earth can still continue, if the core of the earth was to cool all of a sudden and wasn't a melton core anymore the atmosphere would be gone, air breathing animals would not be living anymore in about 5 minutes it would be all over everything would freeze as well.

The core is a light, it is like a small dwarf star incased under rocks and dirt etc. and very necessary for life no doubt.

 

[Oseas]

I agree that most, probably all the physical things spiritual things, but if you think the KJ is the most accurate, I suggest you google "most accurate Bible."

As I said in my post before, those who have the Spirit of Christ do not get embarrassed with any translation of the Bible. Furthermore, all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The point is that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Edison Trent]

As I said in my post before, those who have the Spirit of Christ do not get embarrassed with any translation of the Bible. Furthermore, all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The point is that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So can those who have the spirit of Christ, know the things of the spirit of God?

or do those who have the spirit of Christ cannot know the things of the spirit of God?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you have any evidence or am I just to take your word for it?

You can do the math yourself, it is not that difficult.

Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past. This is due to the tidal effects the Moon has on Earth's rotation. Atomic clocks show that a modern-day is longer by about 1.7 milliseconds than a century ago,[1] slowly increasing the rate at which UTC is adjusted by leap seconds. Analysis of historical astronomical records shows a slowing trend of 2.3 milliseconds per century since the 8th century BCE.[2] wiki

The age of the Earth is approximately 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years.
4.5 billion divided by 100,000 = 45,000 (convert milliseconds to seconds)
45,000 divided by 60 = 750 minutes (convert seconds to minutes)
750 divided by 60 = 12.5 hours (convert minutes to hours)

So the day is 12.5 hours longer today than the day was in the beginning.
If you figure half of the day is sunlight that means the first day had 6.25 hours of sunlight.
Two days of the year night and day are the same length. (equinox)

 

[omega2xx]

You can do the math yourself, it is not that difficult.

Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past. This is due to the tidal effects the Moon has on Earth's rotation. Atomic clocks show that a modern-day is longer by about 1.7 milliseconds than a century ago,[1] slowly increasing the rate at which UTC is adjusted by leap seconds. Analysis of historical astronomical records shows a slowing trend of 2.3 milliseconds per century since the 8th century BCE.[2] wiki

The age of the Earth is approximately 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years.
4.5 billion divided by 100,000 = 45,000 (convert milliseconds to seconds)
45,000 divided by 60 = 750 minutes (convert seconds to minutes)
750 divided by 60 = 12.5 hours (convert minutes to hours)

So the day is 12.5 hours longer today than the day was in the beginning.
If you figure half of the day is sunlight that means the first day had 6.25 hours of sunlight.
Two days of the year night and day are the same length. (equinox)

That sounds more like evo mumbo jumbo than science. The radio metric dating systems are all based on several assumption making their accuracy highly questionable.


The guy who invented that math doesn't know if the rotation has been constant during that time. It could have even been faster at times for all he knows.

Even if it is all true, it does not explain the origin of the universe or the origin of matter, energy and life from dead elemements.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That sounds more like evo mumbo jumbo than science. The radio metric dating systems are all based on several assumption making their accuracy highly questionable.

The accuracy is highly questionable. We do not know for sure what the exact rate is and if it is consistent or variable. They claim to know the speed of light but they really do not know exactly what it is. Even the expansion rate of the universe is questionable. When they replaced the camera on the Hubble the rate is now MORE accurate than what it was. Still we are working with ballpark figures and not exact precise numbers.

If you want to go OEC: (Old Earth Creationism) then Gerald Schroeder would be the man. He has a Phd from MIT in Physics AND he has studied Kabbalah. For him from the OEC perspective each day in Genesis chapter one is half the length of the day before it. He explains this showing that Genesis was written from God's perspective looking forward, not man's perspective looking back.

I am better prepared to explain dispensationalism where a day in Genesis chapter one is 1,000 years.

 

[omega2xx]

The accuracy is highly questionable. We do not know for sure what the exact rate is and if it is consistent or variable. They claim to know the speed of light but they really do not know exactly what it is. Even the expansion rate of the universe is questionable. When they replaced the camera on the Hubble the rate is now MORE accurate than what it was. Still we are working with ballpark figures and not exact precise numbers.

If you want to go OEC: (Old Earth Creationism) then Gerald Schroeder would be the man. He has a Phd from MIT in Physics AND he has studied Kabbalah. For him from the OEC perspective each day in Genesis chapter one is half the length of the day before it. He explains this showing that Genesis was written from God's perspective looking forward, not man's perspective looking back.

I am better prepared to explain dispensationalism where a day in Genesis chapter one is 1,000 years.

I never get concerned about age of the earth since the Bible does not say what it is. As I said before the only important thing is how did it originate. "God did it" is the most logical answer IMO.

You really can use the day is a thousand years approach for at least 2 reasons. Without the sun(4th day) the plants of the 3rd day would die. Every time day is used with a number it always means a 24 hour day as we k now it today.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I never get concerned about age of the earth since the Bible does not say what it is. As I said before the only important thing is how did it originate. "God did it" is the most logical answer IMO.

You really can use the day is a thousand years approach for at least 2 reasons. Without the sun(4th day) the plants of the 3rd day would die. Every time day is used with a number it always means a 24 hour day as we k now it today.

God said let there be light ON the first day. God tells us what He is going to do and then He tells us what He did. There is no mention of how long it takes God to do what He tells us He is going to do. Only we know the moment in time when His work is finished. At Calvary Jesus said: "It is finished". We know the exact moment in time and the exact place where His work was finished. Just like we know the exact moment in time and the exact place he entered into the world. At least the wise men know that because they were there to greet Him. Yet John 1:2 tells us that "He was with God in the beginning".

Perfected means whole, complete and mature. When a plant is perfected is when the plant bears fruit. There is an exact moment in time when that plant is perfected.

Amos 9:13 "Behold, days are coming,"declares the LORD, "When the plowman will overtake the reaper And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; When the mountains will drip sweet wine And all the hills will be dissolved.

 

[Oseas]

Actually the first day was more like 6 hours. The spindown rate of the earth is connected to the receding rate of the moon.

Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

You wrote:>>>Actually the first day was more like 6 hours. The spindown rate of the earth is connected to the receding rate of the moon. <<<

Sorry, interpreting the Holy Scriptures literally you make a big and grave mistake, it because in the first day there were not sun, neither moon, so your theory is as whether you had rub your feet upon the written words of God that was revealed to Moses by God. Moses learned from God: "a thousand years in the sight of God are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Psalms 90:4". The Apostle Peter confirms what Moses said: (2Pe.3:8) "But, beloved, BE NOT IGNORANT of this one thing, that ONE (1) Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

What you wrote has nothing to do with the Word of God in Genesis. Genesis 1 is a description of God's plan of hard work to restore or restitution of all things, millennium to millennium, after the rebellion in the garden of Eden, as He revealed first to Moses, do you understand?

You quoted: >>>Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.<<<

Yes, God made two great lights, the Greater Light to leads the day, and the Lesser Light to lead the night, and He also made the stars. These works of God has nothing to do with Sun and Moon, much less with the physical space of the Universe.

The true believers are not in darkness, by the contrary, we are all the children of light, and the children of the Day, do you understand? We are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober, for they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. So, let us who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (the Greater Light-John 12:v.46), Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another with these words.

 

[Yarddog]

I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

I feel that it is an allegory.