Sins after Baptism

[Giver]

Since I'm not at home right now, I would give you 1John 1:9,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

I also rely on the teaching of my Church.

BTW, I now must recharge my phone, as I use ForumRunner.

Yes John did say: (1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

It is also obvious that John was not telling us that God would keep on forgiving us by saying the following. Also other scripture tells us one will not always be forgiven.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


Now who is it that tells you that your Church is right? Show me using the written Word of God. Remember Scripture does not say Jesus built his Church on the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[steve_bakr]

Yes John did say: (1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

It is also obvious that John was not telling us that God would keep on forgiving us by saying the following. Also other scripture tells us one will not always be forgiven.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


Now who is it that tells you that your Church is right? Show me using the written Word of God. Remember Scripture does not say Jesus built his Church on the Roman Catholic Church.

The 1 John passages are not saying that you can't be forgiven. He already says that you will be forgiven. These passages variably warn about apostasy and continuing in sin. That has been explained, and it has been suggested that you refer to Bible commentaries.

It has been already said that the Hebrew passages are warning against apostasy. They are saying that there is no one else to turn to other than Jesus Christ.

Did not Christ forgive Peter? Did not God forgive David? Did not Christ say, "Whose sins you forgive will be forgiven"? Did not Paul say to receive the repentant brother back into the Church? Does not the Psalm say, "Do not deal with me according to my sins"? Does not another Psalm say, "O wash me more and more from my guilt and cleanse me from my sin"?

 

[Giver]

The 1 John passages are not saying that you can't be forgiven. He already says that you will be forgiven. These passages variably warn about apostasy and continuing in sin. That has been explained, and it has been suggested that you refer to Bible commentaries.

It has been already said that the Hebrew passages are warning against apostasy. They are saying that there is no one else to turn to other than Jesus Christ.

Did not Christ forgive Peter? Did not God forgive David? Did not Christ say, "Whose sins you forgive will be forgiven"? Did not Paul say to receive the repentant brother back into the Church? Does not the Psalm say, "Do not deal with me according to my sins"? Does not another Psalm say, "O wash me more and more from my guilt and cleanse me from me sin"?

Only man said the lie about Hebrews was talking about apostasy, you can’t find that anywhere in the written Word of God.

You should understand that before Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin, and we were given the Holy Spirit sin could not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The 1 John passages are not saying that you can't be forgiven. He already says that you will be forgiven. These passages variably warn about apostasy and continuing in sin. That has been explained, and it has been suggested that you refer to Bible commentaries.

It has been already said that the Hebrew passages are warning against apostasy. They are saying that there is no one else to turn to other than Jesus Christ.

Did not Christ forgive Peter? Did not God forgive David? Did not Christ say, "Whose sins you forgive will be forgiven"? Did not Paul say to receive the repentant brother back into the Church? Does not the Psalm say, "Do not deal with me according to my sins"? Does not another Psalm say, "O wash me more and more from my guilt and cleanse me from me sin"?

Giver artificially quoted the passage in three parts, left out one verse, and related the verses in reverse order! That's got to be one hell of an odd way to quote what is in fact part of a single paragraph. The whole paragraph reads thus:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:4-10)​

If the reader pays attention to the verbs in the passage it is clear that John is talking about habitual actions, thus in the first sentence we have "committeth" (commits) which signifies an action that started in the past and continues on to the present. So the one who commits sins is committing them now and was committing them before. This is not some accidental sin unintentionally done once but avoided thereafter. It is sins committed and continued as a habit. Thus this is habitual not casual or occasional.

Take a look at the passage as it is translated in the ESV (English Standard Version):

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:4-10)​

So what is the above paragraph telling us about sin and forgiveness? It is telling us that one who makes a habit of deliberate sin cannot be forgiven by God when they do not intend to stop sinning or at least to make an effort to stop. There is a whole world of difference between a person sinning and repenting of their sin by trying to turn away from it and trying to serve God and a person who sins and likes sinning and has no real intention of stopping.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Only man said the lie about Hebrews was talking about apostasy, you can’t find that anywhere in the written Word of God.

You should understand that before Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin, and we were given the Holy Spirit sin could not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

Let's take a look at the passage in Hebrews and see what is says:

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31)​

Pay attention to the kind of sin that the author of Hebrews s talking about, he says it is "How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" Now ask yourself what does apostasy mean? Wikipedia says, "Apostasy (Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), 'a defection or revolt', from ἀπό, apo, 'away, apart', στάσις, stasis, 'stand, 'standing') is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person." Now compare the sin described in Hebrews 10:29 with the definition given in wikipedia and tell me that they are not the same thing.

 

[weariedsoul]

Only man said the lie about Hebrews was talking about apostasy, you can’t find that anywhere in the written Word of God.

You should understand that before Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin, and we were given the Holy Spirit sin could not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

That's true, but scripture seems to suggest we can grieve the spirit but scripture doesn't call it blasphemy.

 

[steve_bakr]

Yes John did say: (1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

It is also obvious that John was not telling us that God would keep on forgiving us by saying the following. Also other scripture tells us one will not always be forgiven.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


Now who is it that tells you that your Church is right? Show me using the written Word of God. Remember Scripture does not say Jesus built his Church on the Roman Catholic Church.

What concerns me is that you are setting yourself up because--unless you are an actual Saint--you will stumble. When that happens, two things could happen. 1) You will go into despair by thinking you have sinned against the Holy Spirit; 2) You will not acknowledge it and thereby might not repent and turn away from the sin.

What you need to know is that God will forgive you for whatever it is.

My other concern is that you might convince some vulnerable person to believe this error. It is imperative that you listen to others and read some commentaries.

 

[weariedsoul]

Scripture does say that we should exhort each other to do good and abstain from wrong doing.

 

[Giver]

What concerns me is that you are setting yourself up because--unless you are an actual Saint--you will stumble. When that happens, two things could happen. 1) You will go into despair by thinking you have sinned against the Holy Spirit; 2) You will not acknowledge it and thereby might not repent and turn away from the sin.

What you need to know is that God will forgive you for whatever it is.

My other concern is that you might convince some vulnerable person to believe this error. It is imperative that you listen to others and read some commentaries.

What is so sad is that people don’t understand that a Christian is a follower of Jesus. A Christian walks as Jesus walked. A Christian is a temple of God. There is no sin in God’s temple.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

By the way if God leads one he or she will never need to worry about sinning unless he or she chooses to commit sin. God will never allow one of his to be tempted beyond their ability to resist. God’s grace will always be sufficient to defeat Satan/sin.

(Galatians 5:16)“Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence....”.

 

[Giver]

That's true, but scripture seems to suggest we can grieve the spirit but scripture doesn't call it blasphemy.

A person who knows God, and God has made a home in him or her, has told God he loves him. When this person deliberately commits a sin, he has lied to God. Scripture tells us what happens to one that lies to God.

(Acts 5:1-11) “There was another man, however, called Ananias. -----.

The Holy Spirit is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is insulting. Insulting the Holy Spirit in my understanding is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

 

[weariedsoul]

A person who knows God, and God has made a home in him or her, has told God he loves him. When this person deliberately commits a sin, he has lied to God. Scripture tells us what happens to one that lies to God.

(Acts 5:1-11) “There was another man, however, called Ananias. -----.

The Holy Spirit is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is insulting. Insulting the Holy Spirit in my understanding is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

May the Lord keep us on the right path.

 

[Giver]

May the Lord keep us on the right path.

The most important thing one can do in this life is to pray that Jesus comes to him or her in a very personal way. Pray to be open to Jesus when he does come. Pray, Pray, Pray, and keep on praying.

Letting Jesus/Holy Spirit teach one to know God is by far the most important thing one can do in this life. Nothing one can do can compare in importance.

Pray to be given the grace to live the whole Word of God. Not to live the Word of God as man understands the Word to be, but as God teaches one to live his Word.

No matter who tells one anything about God, be it a priest a bishop, or anyone, one is to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

 

[steve_bakr]

A person who knows God, and God has made a home in him or her, has told God he loves him. When this person deliberately commits a sin, he has lied to God. Scripture tells us what happens to one that lies to God.

(Acts 5:1-11) “There was another man, however, called Ananias. -----.

The Holy Spirit is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is insulting. Insulting the Holy Spirit in my understanding is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

Those passages have already been explained to you.

When the people picked up stones to throw at the woman caught in adultery, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." One by one--from the oldest to the youngest--their arms grew weaker until they had all dropped their stones and went away.

Are you claiming to be without sin?

 

[weariedsoul]

The most important thing one can do in this life is to pray that Jesus comes to him or her in a very personal way. Pray to be open to Jesus when he does come. Pray, Pray, Pray, and keep on praying.

Letting Jesus/Holy Spirit teach one to know God is by far the most important thing one can do in this life. Nothing one can do can compare in importance.

Pray to be given the grace to live the whole Word of God. Not to live the Word of God as man understands the Word to be, but as God teaches one to live his Word.

No matter who tells one anything about God, be it a priest a bishop, or anyone, one is to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

I am committed to staying on the right path, but i am fearful of boasting and falling down, i really want to stay on the right path, i have a renewed hope and feel like the Lord is taking me forward. Prayers are always welcome brother.

 

[steve_bakr]

I am committed to staying on the right path, but i am fearful of boasting and falling down, i really want to stay on the right path, i have a renewed hope and feel like the Lord is taking me forward. Prayers are always welcome brother.

And if you stumble, Jesus is there to pick you up and forgive you.

 

[weariedsoul]

And if you stumble, Jesus is there to pick you up and forgive you.

We reap what we sow. May God keep me on the right path.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had a nice sleep and wake to find I missed a fight! Isn't life strange

 

[Giver]

Those passages have already been explained to you.

When the people picked up stones to throw at the woman caught in adultery, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." One by one--from the oldest to the youngest--their arms grew weaker until they had all dropped their stones and went away.

Are you claiming to be without sin?

Steve I explained how it is that God has kept me sin free in a previous post on this thread.

I wonder in you can read, and understand the following Saints letter?
The following is a letter by Saint. Maximus the Confessor and it explains in a very unique way what I have been saying, that people who know God do not sin.


The manner of birth from God within us is two-fold: the one bestows the grace of adoption, which is entirely present in potency in those who are born of God; the other introduces, wholly by active exertion, that grace which deliberately reorients the entire free choice of the one being born of God toward the God who gives birth. The first bears the grace, present in potency through faith alone; but the second, beyond, also engenders in the knower the sublimely divine likeness of the One known, that likeness being effected precisely through knowledge. Therefore the first manner of birth is observed in some because their will, not yet fully detached from its propensity to the flesh, has yet to be wholly endowed with the Spirit by participation in the divine mysteries that are made known through active endeavor. The inclination to sin does not disappear as long as they will it. For the Spirit does not give birth to an unwilling will, but converts the willing will toward deification. (So a person doesn’t stop sinning just because they will not to sin.) Whoever has participated in this deification through cognizance experience is incapable of reverting from right discernment in truth, once he has achieved this in action, to something else besides, which only pretends to be that same discernment. (Once a person comes to know God, through the Holy Spirit, they are incapable of reverting to their sinful ways.) It is like the eye, which, once it has looked upon the sun, cannot mistake it for the moon or any of the other stars in the heavens. With those undergoing the (second mode of) birth, the Holy Spirit takes the whole of their free choice and translates it completely from earth to heaven, and, through the true knowledge acquired by exertion, transfigures the mind with the blessed light rays of our God and Father, such that the mind is deemed another “God,” insofar as in its habitude if experiences, by grace, that which God himself does not experience but “is” in his very essence. With those undergoing this second mode of baptism, their free choice clearly becomes sinless in virtue and knowledge, as they are unable to negate what they have actively discerned through experience. So even if we have the Spirit of adoption, who is himself the Seed for enduring those begotten (through baptism) with the likeness of the Sower, but do not present him with a will cleansed of any inclination or disposition to something else, we therefore, even after being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5), willingly sin. But were we to prepare our will with knowledge to receive the operation of these agents-water and Spirit, I mean-then the mystical water would, through our practical life, cleanse our conscience, and the life-giving Spirit would bring about unchanging perfection of the good in us through knowledge acquired in experience. Precisely for that reason he leaves, to each of us who are still able to sin, the sheer desire to surrender our whole selves willing to the Spirit.

St. Maximus the Confessor

 

[New_Wineskin]

Those passages have already been explained to you.

When the people picked up stones to throw at the woman caught in adultery, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." One by one--from the oldest to the youngest--their arms grew weaker until they had all dropped their stones and went away.

Are you claiming to be without sin?

Anyone claiming to be *with* sin is claiming to be unrepentant and unforgiven . If you were repentant and received forgiveness , you are without sin .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Anyone claiming to be *with* sin is claiming to be unrepentant and unforgiven . If you were repentant and received forgiveness , you are without sin .

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)