Sinning Willfully, a study in Hebrews

[HIM]

Who's opinions?

OURS. The Law of Sin and death is only mentioned ONE PLACE in Scripture. In those text Paul reveals what it is. NO WHERE ELSE. THAT IS NOT MY OPINION. THAT IS A FACT. And it is not what you say it is In your opinion.

 

[Grip Docility]

Romans 7 and 8 of Romans.

I have much exegesis that has gone ignored. If you would kindly acknowledge the large volume of responses from myself that you haven't addressed yet, I would gladly exegete Romans 1 - 8 for you.

None of what you say here has anything to do with anything.

This is your opinion of what I am saying. I am convicted by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that it has validity.

Stop wasting time and go to the text and read. Start in 7 and read through.

This statement has no offer of resolution. What will it profit when the contextual word Nomos of Sin and Death is something that perpetually gets redefined in all of Paul's writings to fit a belief?

It is a perpetually moving topic of discussion that isn't anchored in hermeneutics. IMO

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

7 and 8 of Romans Griffin. Show from there. Our opinions are worthless

It is not merely an opinion. It is knowledge informed by trusting the Spirit's testimony.

the Wages of sin is death, the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

is almost identical to

the Spirit's law that we have life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law that says sin produces death

 

[Grip Docility]

None of which you post says anything in respect to the Law of Sin and death. Your opinion does not matter and is baseless.

I value your opinion, though we disagree.

Romans 7 and 8. What is so hard about this?

Are you willing to address my first two responses line by line, or address my long line by line response to your OP, yet?

Answer that if nothing else.

I will do so if you can kindly address my opening points of disagreement that amount to 3 sizable, time devoted to this matter, posts.

 

[HIM]

This is your opinion of what I am saying. I am convicted by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that it has validity.

No you are not. You are convicted by your opinion rooted in a preconceived idea. THIS IS ALSO A FACT. If it were not true you would have gone to Romans 7 and 8 and from there show what you proclaim. The reason you don't is because you can't, that is also A FACT.

 

[HIM]

It is not merely an opinion. It is knowledge informed by trusting the Spirit's testimony.

the Wages of sin is death, the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

is almost identical to

the Spirit's law that we have life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law that says sin produces death

Then show from the text in Romans 7 and 8.

Please don't start the same nonsense.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, I am saying that the new man will never sin, will never be corrupted by sin, and will always be one with the Father and the Son. I could give you Scriptures which say these things, if that will help you distinguish between the spirit/Spirit and the flesh that all people in whom Chist lives possess.

John 14:20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Mat 17:19 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, (quoting right from the Ten Commandments and one of the greatest commandment) “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your other,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Matthew 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;

Yet so many people who claim to be in Christ never believe or keep these teachings of Jesus or follow the example He left for us 1 John 2:6 We do not judge ourselves, Christ does based on His standard of righteousness Psa 119:172, not our own.

I know a guy who claims he can’t sin, in Christ, has a wife and a girlfriend. The heart is deceitful and not to be trusted. God’s law shows us our sin Rom 7:7 Rom 3:20 so we are not depending on our version of righteousness but on God’s. Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142

 

[HIM]

@SabbathBlessings good afternoon and happy Sabbath!

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Then show from the text in Romans 7 and 8.

Please don't start the same nonsense.

I did that already (Ro 6, not 7, but same context). You have nothing to say about that, except try again?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@SabbathBlessings good afternoon and happy Sabbath!

Him! Happy Sabbath to you too my friend and to all.

 

[Grip Docility]

No you are not.

You have been fairly unkind to me in your responses. You have basically just suggested that my convictions are not of the Spirit of Christ. I disagree.

You are convicted by your opinion rooted in a preconceived idea.

Then, perhaps we should place our cards on the table.

What do you define, by name, as "The Testimony of Jesus Christ"? Are you willing to answer this in the middle of this discussion?

THIS IS ALSO A FACT.

I maintain that I am sharing my opinion of what I believe that the Holy Spirit of Christ has convicted me of. I would kindly suggest that you are sharing your opinon.

If it were not true you would have gone to Romans 7 and 8 and from there show what you proclaim.

This is more busy work. I line by line responded to your OP and left two opening responses to your OP, one from scripture and the second as an emotional appeal. Neither have been addressed line by line or directly, yet. I would suggest that reading what I have posted may help your more acutely understand my perspective, though you disagree with it, though that is your respectable personal choice to do as you please, in the matter of.

The reason you don't is because you can't, that is also A FACT.

I've followed each of your posts, line by line that were massive points. Mine have gone ignored. Can you see why I find this statement more Ad Hominem than directional in discussion?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I did that already (Ro 6, not 7, but same context). You have nothing to say about that, except try again?

And the verse that follows in Romans 8 starts with the word "because"...

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Ro 8:3–4)​

What could the law of Moses not do? Answer... it could never give us eternal life. It could only condemn us for being lawbreakers (And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. (Ro 7:10)).

But God did what the law could not do, and that is He gave His Son as a sacrifice for sin so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[HIM]

I did that already (Ro 6, not 7, but same context). You have nothing to say about that, except try again?

NONSENSE

You have been fairly unkind to me in your responses. You have basically just suggested that my convictions are not of the Spirit of Christ. I disagree.

More nonsense

Romans 7 and 8 is where the Law of Sin and death is mentioned. IN those text it explains what it is. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? SHOW FROM WITHIN THOSE TEXT.

Chapter 7 is where it is first mentioned. Death is the consequence of what the Law of sin is. What is the Law of Sin as shown within those text. If You can't show it you should not be here posting as if you know. You should be asking....

 

[Grip Docility]

Romans 7 and 8 is where the Law of Sin and death is mentioned. IN those text it explains what it is. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? SHOW FROM WITHIN THOSE TEXT.

Chapter 7 is where it is first mentioned. Death is the consequence of what the Law of sin is. What is the Law of Sin as shown within those text. If You can't show it you should not be here posting as if you know. You should be asking....

This Law?

2 Corinthians 3:7 The ministry that brought death was inscribed on stone......

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That’s the problem with plucking verses out of their context and never trying to harmonize the scriptures, one never understands what the passage really means, anyone can make a doctrine out of the Bible by taking scripture out of context, but it only will hurt one in the long run.

 

[Grip Docility]

That’s the problem with plucking verses out of their context and never trying to harmonize the scriptures, one never understands what the passage really means, anyone can make a doctrine out of the Bible by taking scripture out of context, but it only will hurt one in the long run.

What does it mean if a verse directly says "The Ministry of Death Chiseled in Stone"? Paul specifically askes what the power behind sin is, in reference to death, and cites "The Law".

What context makes this not scripturally sound?

Why not inquire why I am so insistent on this matter? I assure you that it is not to promote sin, but rather to refrain from rebuilding the very system that empowered the one that had the power of death, which is the devil, that Jesus Christ fulfilled in a most complete fashion, by humbling Himself, in human flesh, to the very point of being Cut off from His Father, in our place.

 

[Grip Docility]

OURS. The Law of Sin and death is only mentioned ONE PLACE in Scripture. In those text Paul reveals what it is. NO WHERE ELSE. THAT IS NOT MY OPINION. THAT IS A FACT. And it is not what you say it is In your opinion.

Who is "Ours"?

 

[HIM]

And the verse that follows in Romans 8 starts with the word "because"...

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Ro 8:3–4)​

What could the law of Moses not do? Answer... it could never give us eternal life. It could only condemn us for being lawbreakers (And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. (Ro 7:10)).

But God did what the law could not do, and that is He gave His Son as a sacrifice for sin so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thank you for trying. But no.

Because The Law of sin is not mentioned until verse 23 in chapter 7. The context which shows us what the Law of sin is starts in verse 18. Paul states that he can't find how to do good. The good that he would, he doesn't. But the evil that he wouldn't that he does. In respect to doing what he wouldn't, he states that it isn't him doing but sin dwelling in Him. He then states that he discovered, found a law that, when he would do good, evil is present with him. As he proceeds he calls this law another law and then gives it a name. He calls it the Law of sin. And in mentioning this, He states that he delights in the Law of God. In doing this he establishes a contrast between the Law of God and the Law of sin. Therefore they are not the same.

Through all this he cries out in despair, "o wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

Then proclaims making another contrast between the Law of God and the Law of sin. He thanks God that with his mind he serves the Law of God.... but in despair he also recognizes with his flesh he serves the law of sin.

The law of sin is we can't help what we do outside of Christ's spirit giving us the power. For it is He that works in us both to will AND do His good pleasure.
As Jesus said, he that commits sin is a slave to it. And as Jesus continued emphatically in John 8. And the servant of sin shall not abide in the house forever. But the Son shall forever. And if the Son shall set you free, free you are indeed. For the Law of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus his set us free from the Law of sin AND death. That the righteousness of the Law, God's Law be fulfilled in us who WALK AFTER the Spirit and not after the flesh. For if you walk after the flesh YOU SHAL DIE. Not abide in the house forever. But if we mortify the deeds of the Body through Christ and His Spirit we shall live. AMEN

So where are we walking?


,

 

[Grip Docility]

Thank you for trying. But no.

Because The Law of sin is not mentioned until verse 23 in chapter 7. The context which shows us what the Law of sin is starts in verse 18. Paul states that he can't find how to do good. The good that he would, he doesn't. But the evil that he wouldn't that he does. In respect to doing what he wouldn't he states that it isn't him doing but sin dwelling in Him. He then states that he discovered , found a law that when he would do good evil is present with him. As he proceeds he call this law another law and then gives it a name. He calls it the Law of sin. And in mentioning this He states that he delights in the Law of God.. In doing this he establishes a contrast between the Law of God and the Law of sin. Therefore they are not the same.
Through all this he cries out in despair, "o wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

Then proclaims making another contrast between the Law of and the Law of sin. He thanks God that with his mind he serves the Law of God.... but in despair he also recognizes with his flesh he serves the law of sin.

The law of sin is we can't help what we do outside of Christ's spirit giving us the power. For it is He that works in us both to will AND do His good pleasure.
As Jesus said, he that commits sin is a slave to it. And as Jesus continued emphatically in John 8. And the servant of sin shall not abide in the house forever. But the Son shall forever. And if the Son shall set you free, free you are indeed. For the Law of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus his set us free from the Law of sin AND death. That the righteousness of the Law, God's Law be fulfilled in us who WALK AFTER the Spirit and not after the flesh. For if you walk after the flesh YOU SHAL DIE. Not abide in the house forever. But if we mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live. AMEN

So where are we walking?


,

If this point of disagreement is about the Law of sin and death...

Which Law is scripture referring to when it says; "The Ministry of Death Chiseled in letters of stone"?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What does it mean if a verse directly says "The Ministry of Death Chiseled in Stone"? Paul specifically askes what the power behind sin is, in reference to death, and cites "The Law".

What context makes this not scripturally sound?

Why not inquire why I am so insistent on this matter? I assure you that it is not to promote sin, but rather refrain from rebuilding the very system that empowered the one that had the power of death, which is the devil.

It makes it unsound when it goes against what Jesus taught. Paul is hard to understand and comes with a stern warning for a reason 2 Peter 3:16

Paul is contrasting the New Covenant with the Old Covenant. The difference in the New Covenant, why it’s much more glorious is it has God the one doing. Heb 8:10. The old covenant is based on the people doing Exo 19:8 God said He would not alter the words of the Covenant Psa 89:34 God keeps His promises, why the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6, not better laws, it still has God’s law, which is perfect Psa 19:7 and righteous Psa 119:172 Rom 7:12 but now God is writing it in our hearts and minds- from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. It’s why its still a sin to break any of the Ten Commandments even in the NC 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 but instead of bringing an animal sacrifice to a human priest, we can go directly to Jesus, who is our High Priest when we repent (change of heart) and sin and when He heals He says go and sin no more. We need to leave the old man behind and walk in newness with Him, who changes our heart and enables us to obey Him through love and faith.

We have been through this. More than once. We don’t have to agree, but I would consider any teaching from Paul, if Jesus does not teach the same thing, changes out its being misinterpreted out of context.