"Sinless Perfection" before God.

[pasifika]

The word he used an also mean "whole" or "complete", which would be a better translation considering the context of what he was speaking about, which had nothing to do with the concept of needing to be sinless.

Hi @Soyeong, Is whether the word must be translates "whole" or "complete". The bottom line is, is for us to be like God and God is also "sinless".

 

[Soyeong]

Hi @Soyeong, Is whether the word must be translates "whole" or "complete". The bottom line is, is for us to be like God and God is also "sinless".

Hello, while our goal should certainly be to refrain for sin in accordance with following Christ’s example of obedience to God’s law, there is nothing that we earn as a wage that God owes us in return if we manage to be sinless and nothing that we do not earn if we don’t manage to be sinless.

 

[Psalm 27]

Letter of John
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

the mantra people use to excuse their sin.

BUT John also wrote;

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. (All)

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (past sins, for all have sinned)

If we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

who says he abides in Him, ought himself to walk, just as He walked. (Can't do that after we're dead)

I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. (Have, present tense)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins...

In Him is no sin.

Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

Whoever sins has neither seen Him, nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (it is finished)

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God...

A lot of scriptures there.
The ratio speaks for itself
We must make no more excuses for practicing sin.
He has given us everything we need to overcome the evil one.

 

[Gary K]

Hi @Soyeong, Is whether the word must be translates "whole" or "complete". The bottom line is, is for us to be like God and God is also "sinless".

That is an erroneous, unBiblical idea. Not until the second coming of Jesus will we be made sinless.

Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

To hold an opinion other than that when scripture directly contradicts us is to be in rebellion against God and Paul tells us rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. That's how serious this issue is.

 

[pasifika]

That is an erroneous, unBiblical idea. Not until the second coming of Jesus will we be made sinless.



To hold an opinion other than that when scripture directly contradicts us is to be in rebellion against God and Paul tells us rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. That's how serious this issue is.

Hi @Gary K, first you're not a Teacher of the Word. You quote Scriptures without knowledge.

...So We can have confidence in the day of Judgement.-"In this world We are like Jesus"..1John 4:17
(This is before the day of Judgement).

If it too much to think that we can be made sinless before the second coming, is because you feel that way. I feel I can be like Jesus before the second coming, it's the Power of God we are talking about. (Power unto salvation)

 

[pasifika]

Hello, while our goal should certainly be to refrain for sin in accordance with following Christ’s example of obedience to God’s law, there is nothing that we earn as a wage that God owes us in return if we manage to be sinless and nothing that we do not earn if we don’t manage to be sinless.

Hi, for a sinner to be sinless is entirely God's Work so there is nothing we can earn like a wages. It's for us to "Believe" that God can do what He promises.
As David said in Psalm 32:1,2 (Romans 4:7,8)

 

[Soyeong]

Hi, for a sinner to be sinless is entirely God's Work so there is nothing we can earn like a wages. It's for us to "Believe" that God can do what He promises.
As David said in Psalm 32:1,2 (Romans 4:7,8)

There is nothing that we can earn as a wages that causes God to owe us something even if we manage to have perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5), so that was never the reason why we should obey God's law.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have of choice of whether we are going to learn on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly make that division through what He has instructed, and he will make our paths straight, so that is what it means to believe.

 

[pasifika]

There is nothing that we can earn as a wages that causes God to owe us something even if we manage to have perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5), so that was never the reason why we should obey God's law.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have of choice of whether we are going to learn on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly make that division through what He has instructed, and he will make our paths straight, so that is what it means to believe.

Hi, the reason why anyone obeys God's law is because of God full stop. The reason why anyone don't obey God's law is because of Sin.

Yes, our mind knows right and wrong but our hearts is always choose wrong, and that's the problem..

.."For I have the desire to do what is good, But I CANNOT CARRY IT OUT. For I do the good I want to do, BUT, the evil I do not want to do This I Keep On Doing"..Romans 7:18,19

Remember is the "doer" of the Law are those who are "Righteous". Romans 2. But doing good is never in our flesh always evil.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi, the reason why anyone obeys God's law is because of God full stop. The reason why anyone don't obey God's law is because of Sin.

Yes, our mind knows right and wrong but our hearts is always choose wrong, and that's the problem..

.."For I have the desire to do what is good, But I CANNOT CARRY IT OUT. For I do the good I want to do, BUT, the evil I do not want to do This I Keep On Doing"..Romans 7:18,19

Remember is the "doer" of the Law are those who are "Righteous". Romans 2. But doing good is never in our flesh always evil.

There could be any number of motivations that someone could have for choosing to obeying God, such in order to express their faith, to express their love, in order to know God, in order to go to heaven, in order to avoid hell, in order to restore the world, in order to look pious to our neighbor, in order to earn our salvation as a wage, or because God is sovereign. Some of those motivations are correct while others are not and was is only spoke against incorrect motivation should not be mistaken as speaking against the correct ones. In other words, just because our salvation does not require us to choose to obey God in order to earn it does not mean that our salvation does not require us to obey God out of faith.

 

[pasifika]

There could be any number of motivations that someone could have for choosing to obeying God, such in order to express their faith, to express their love, in order to know God, in order to go to heaven, in order to avoid hell, in order to restore the world, in order to look pious to our neighbor, in order to earn our salvation as a wage, or because God is sovereign. Some of those motivations are correct while others are not and was is only spoke against incorrect motivation should not be mistaken as speaking against the correct ones. In other words, just because our salvation does not require us to choose to obey God in order to earn it does not mean that our salvation does not require us to obey God out of faith.

The "flesh" is always against God that is our human nature due to "sin", so unless Sin is remove we are by nature "God's enemies" and God's wrath is the result. (Born again)

 

[Psalm 27]

Letter of John
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

the mantra people use to excuse their sin.

BUT John also wrote;

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. (All)

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (past sins, for all have sinned)

If we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

who says he abides in Him, ought himself to walk, just as He walked. (Can't do that after we're dead)

I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. (Have, present tense)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins...

In Him is no sin.

Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

Whoever sins has neither seen Him, nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (it is finished)

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God...

A lot of scriptures there.
The ratio speaks for itself
We must make no more excuses for practicing sin.
He has given us everything we need to overcome the evil one.

 

[Gary K]

Letter of John
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

the mantra people use to excuse their sin.

BUT John also wrote;

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. (All)

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (past sins, for all have sinned)

If we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

who says he abides in Him, ought himself to walk, just as He walked. (Can't do that after we're dead)

I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. (Have, present tense)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins...

In Him is no sin.

Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

Whoever sins has neither seen Him, nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (it is finished)

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God...

A lot of scriptures there.
The ratio speaks for itself
We must make no more excuses for practicing sin.
He has given us everything we need to overcome the evil one.

There isn't much to say to you other than John refutes your one sided version of his writings.

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Psalm 27]

There isn't much to say to you other than John refutes your one sided version of his writings.

OK.
Numbers 6:24-26

 

[Gary K]

OK.
Numbers 6:24-26

It just doesn't seem to matter with you how much your beliefs require scripture to conflict with itself. That is not a good thing for God does not argue with Himself. Jesus said the following.

Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Abraham Lincoln, a person who did not believe in God, quoted this statement when referring to slavery.

“A house divided against itself cannot stand.” I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved—I do not expect the house to fall—but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.

 

[Psalm 27]

I only just realised that I'd been posting on a traditional adventist forum.

I'll get off my soapbox now

Numbers 6:24-26