Singer Cat Stevens not allowed in US.

[BobbieDog]

I also don't doubt the US and Israel both have a dossier on Stevens a mile long.

You don't doubt. Then the man is doomed; he must be guilty. Of what? I dunno: but what does that matter. For I have no doubt.
How like the worst of what used to happen in the USSR. I have no doubt. And there is this big dossier that the KGB hold. Clearly that man is a reactionary, an enemy of the people. We need not enquire as to the detail of his crime. The dossier, and the absence of doubt: those things, in themselves, prove this evil creature's guilt.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

You don't doubt. Then the man is doomed; he must be guilty. Of what? I dunno: but what does that matter. For I have no doubt.
How like the worst of what used to happen in the USSR. I have no doubt. And there is this big dossier that the KGB hold. Clearly that man is a reactionary, an enemy of the people. We need not enquire as to the detail of his crime. The dossier, and the absence of doubt: those things, in themselves, prove this evil creature's guilt.

Ummmm...wouldn't this be stretching it a bit. All our country did was not allow him in while they sorted all this out. He wasn't taken to court and he certainly was not thrown in the ol' Russian gulag.

I'm watching the news and see a brief photo on the news of somebody wanted in my area. An hour later, somebody claiming to be the repairman wants in to my house (even though I did not ask a repairman to visit). He looks a bit like the photo on the news. I turn him away. Hardly a huge deal. But, you'd have this guy filing a lawsuit and going on the local daytime talkshows to talk about how he was discriminated against simply because I had a reason to be suspicious.

 

[BobbieDog]

Ummmm...wouldn't this be stretching it a bit. All our country did was not allow him in while they sorted all this out. He wasn't taken to court and he certainly was not thrown in the ol' Russian gulag.

I'm watching the news and see a brief photo on the news of somebody wanted in my area. An hour later, somebody claiming to be the repairman wants in to my house (even though I did not ask a repairman to visit). He looks a bit like the photo on the news. I turn him away. Hardly a huge deal. But, you'd have this guy filing a lawsuit and going on the local daytime talkshows to talk about how he was discriminated against simply because I had a reason to be suspicious.

The parallel I'm drawing is between the citizenry of the current USA and the old USSR: as to the basis upon which they come to think of another as they do.
It is a big deal. Much of the rest of the worl believes in freedom, including freedom of travel: and here we have a dark superpower the USA, acting as the old USSR used to, denying that freedom as to travelling; where it is the dark and unaccountable exercise of state power, the arbitrary exercise of power, that is so concerning.
The USA is part of an international system: and where it is to the advantage of the USA, she will bang the drum the loudest as to rights of free access; but then, when the wind bringing her advantage changes, she will plead rights of isolation and unilateralism.

 

[Ave Maria]

Personally, I don't think the guy is actually a threat. But then again, I'd rather play it safe. It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

The parallel I'm drawing is between the citizenry of the current USA and the old USSR: as to the basis upon which they come to think of another as they do.
It is a big deal. Much of the rest of the worl believes in freedom, including freedom of travel: and here we have a dark superpower the USA, acting as the old USSR used to, denying that freedom as to travelling; where it is the dark and unaccountable exercise of state power, the arbitrary exercise of power, that is so concerning.
The USA is part of an international system: and where it is to the advantage of the USA, she will bang the drum the loudest as to rights of free access; but then, when the wind bringing her advantage changes, she will plead rights of isolation and unilateralism.

I just think you ought to brush up on your history and, while you're at it, list all the freedoms you DO have in the U.S. and then look and see how many you would have had in the USSR. Vast difference my friend, vast difference.

All our country did was deny entrance to somebody while they investigated him and his motives. I certainly hope they keep doing this. I only wish they had done this prior to 2001 but, if people put up this much of a fuss AFTER 9/11, twould have been impossible prior.

 

[BobbieDog]

I just think you ought to brush up on your history and, while you're at it, list all the freedoms you DO have in the U.S. and then look and see how many you would have had in the USSR. Vast difference my friend, vast difference.

All our country did was deny entrance to somebody while they investigated him and his motives. I certainly hope they keep doing this. I only wish they had done this prior to 2001 but, if people put up this much of a fuss AFTER 9/11, twould have been impossible prior.

Leran how to deal with abstractions and metaphors OreGal. Dialogue become impossible when irrelevant concrete details are overemphasised.
There is no ongoing investigation. You've been watching the wrong cartoon.
The fuss and concern stems from the wieght of evidence held to by the wider world, being overwhelming: and the wieght of evidence on the other just being darkly muttered innuendo from US agencies, with some suggestion that these agencies are taking their cue from Israeli intelligence.
The USA cannot be allowed to buy its security, at the cost of the rights of others. The USA, if it wishes to remain within the international family of nations, must abide by the standards of that family.

 

[BarbB]

The USA cannot be allowed to buy its security, at the cost of the rights of others. The USA, if it wishes to remain within the international family of nations, must abide by the standards of that family.

Neither should the USA be bullied into procedures approved by other nations which are dangerous to its security. Also, the rights of non-citizens do not trump the rights of USA citizens to be safe!

 

[rahma]

The BBC news.......Cat Stevens abandoned his music career to invest in Islamic extremeist and terrorism....just my op after reading his bio,

Well, let me see. Since his conversion, Yusuf Islam has:

Spoken at numerous conventions about his conversion to Islam
Recorded a number of childrens cds and spoken word albums about Islam
Raised money for orphans in Bosnia and Kosovo
Raised money for Nelson Mandela's charity
Opened 5 Islamic schools in Britain
Raised money for victims of 9/11
Gotten married and raised 5 wonderful children
Is an internationally reknowned voice for peace, and was awarded the World Social Award in 2003, recognizing his commitement to peace and charity


Wow, what an impressive bio. InshaAllah (God willing) someday i will be able to have as impressive a bio as he has.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Leran how to deal with abstractions and metaphors OreGal. Dialogue become impossible when irrelevant concrete details are overemphasised.
There is no ongoing investigation. You've been watching the wrong cartoon.
The fuss and concern stems from the wieght of evidence held to by the wider world, being overwhelming: and the wieght of evidence on the other just being darkly muttered innuendo from US agencies, with some suggestion that these agencies are taking their cue from Israeli intelligence.
The USA cannot be allowed to buy its security, at the cost of the rights of others. The USA, if it wishes to remain within the international family of nations, must abide by the standards of that family.

 

[oldrooster]

I would just say, leave him alone.....

 

[BobbieDog]

Heroes and villains: Colin Montgomerie and Yusuf Islam

BEN JUDGE

Hero: Colin Montgomerie

Colin Montgomerie is on a high after holing the putt that won the Ryder Cup for Europe. But his career has had its ups and downs.

His relationship with the media and other golfers has always been patchy. Remarks taken from this very website in 1997 about the US Ryder Cup team led to him being forced to write personal apologies to all of them.

He hasn’t fared much better with golf fans either. At the 1997 US Open, home fans urged Monty to “**** off”; Monty retaliated by calling one spectator a “pillock”. By the 1999 Ryder Cup, spectators were regularly being hauled out of the Brookline crowd and ejected from the club grounds for abusing him.

He seemed to have reached an all-time low ealier this year when his marriage broke down and he slipped down the world rankings and out of the top 50.

But then things picked up. His experience meant he was chosen by Ryder Cup captain Bernhard Langer as the European team’s wild card entry, and the rest is history.

Villain: Yusuf Islam

You think he's a retired pop-singer, but the US thinks he's a villain. Well, Steven Gerogiou, Cat Stevens, Yusuf Islam, the man has so many aliases he is clearly up to no good. A fact not missed by the FBI who unceremoniously bundled him off a Washington-bound plane before sending him back across the Atlantic, "because of concerns about activities that could potentially be related to terrorism".

Mr Islam has been accused of supporting terrorism before and indeed was expelled from Israel on this basis four years ago. The allegation appears to be that he supports Hamas and, by implication, the suicide bombing of Israeli civilians.

However, as we in the UK have seen with US-based aid organisations working in Northern Ireland, what does and what doesn't constitute supporting terrorism is never that simple.

The US Treasury believes that supporting terrorism includes donating to charities such as the UK-based Interpal, designated in the US last year as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist" organisation and whose funds in the UK were recently frozen. Funds which soon thawed out after a Charity Commission investigation found "no evidence of inappropriate activity... information available indicated that Interpal was a well-run organisation", adding that the "US Authorities were unable to provide evidence to support allegations made against Interpal".

Islam himself says "I want to make sure that people are aware that I've never knowingly supported any terrorist groups - past, present or future."

Of course, he would say that, wouldn’t he? But there are undoubtedly thousands of British citizens who innocently donate to Palestinian causes in the sincere hope and belief that their donation will help in some small way to alleviate the terrible suffering in that part of the world. This does not make them terrorist sympathisers.

The danger now is summed up by Nihad Awad, executive director of the US Council on American-Islamic Relations: “When internationally-respected Islamic personalities like Yusuf Islam ... are denied entry to the United States, it sends the disturbing message that even moderate and mainstream Muslims will now be treated like terrorists”.

Quite.



http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=1116522004

European courts have time and again found that there is no or insufficient evidence: when they have been drawn to judicially act against a subject, at US insistence.
Israel's reputation in this regard is even worse: where even the killing of foriegn national's by Israeli security forces, can just be shrugged off by them; whereas others, with seemingly impeccable international credentials, can be branded anti-Semitically threatening to Israel, by these same agencies.
Some sort of apotheosis of all this was reached, when Secretary Powell sought to persuade the UN to go to war with Iraq, using display of "intelligence" evidence which subsequently could not be upheld.
Black-box, security shrounded intelligence, is routinely proving to be no more than cover for arbitrary and political exercise of unaccountable power.
Civilisation itself, and specifically the rule of law, is being threatened in this.
It is precisely this which Koffi Annan refers to, when he says we now face choice: between the rule of men, as here; or the rule of law.

 

[MarkAnthony]

Well, let me see. Since his conversion, Yusuf Islam has:

Spoken at numerous conventions about his conversion to Islam
Recorded a number of childrens cds and spoken word albums about Islam
Raised money for orphans in Bosnia and Kosovo
Raised money for Nelson Mandela's charity
Opened 5 Islamic schools in Britain
Raised money for victims of 9/11
Gotten married and raised 5 wonderful children
Is an internationally reknowned voice for peace, and was awarded the World Social Award in 2003, recognizing his commitement to peace and charity


Wow, what an impressive bio. InshaAllah (God willing) someday i will be able to have as impressive a bio as he has.

Yea.... after he funded terrorists...he attends conventions to network.... created a childrens cd about conversion to islam which feeds the religious extremeist that are using children to kill...used the money to fund muslim orphans....contributed to nelson mandela to attract the black muslim interests....opened 5 islamic schools to support his new business with kids.
donated money to 911 to bribe american authorities to look the other way
and is not internationally known for peace but rock and roll and drugs in his youth.....

Look at all the winners...he is a social honorary winner to attract the muslim money to the crowd... this is a business event not a UN event...

http://www.worldawards.com/main.htm

Look into his eyes and you will see a blind man that does not know CHRIST-
The Prince of Peace...where is his award?......

 

[rahma]

Yea.... after he funded terrorists...

half of all his royalties go to fund orphans and hospitals. Orphans and hospitals, not terrorists. His donations are all well documented and public record.

he attends conventions to network....

Yes, network with people like me, who obviously is in some deep terrorist network. He speaks mainly at mainstream Muslim conventions like ISNA and at colleges and universities. I've had the pleasure of seeing him speak, and his message was one of peace.

created a childrens cd about conversion to islam which feeds the religious extremeist that are using children to kill...

Have you listened to any of his cds? Of course not, otherwise you wouldn't know how foolish you sound.

His first children's CD is called A is for Allah (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/yusuf-islam-alif-is-for-allah-lyrics.html) and is full of songs he wrote for his children. His songs are as harmless as Raffi's and Baby Baluga.

His other cds are for older children and adults, and are stories of the Prophet, classical poems translated into english and various prayer cds.

used the money to fund muslim orphans....

Yes

contributed to nelson mandela to attract the black muslim interests....

Um, or he has been a friend of Nelson Mandela for a long time, and wanted to help him raise money.

Cat in South Africa for Peace

Nelson Mandela's Charity

opened 5 islamic schools to support his new business with kids.

Actually, he wanted an Islamic school for his children to attend, as in Britain at the time, there were no officially recognized Islamic Schools. His schools were the first to be recognized and endorsed by the British Government

http://www.yusufislam.org.uk/education.htm

Islamia Girls' Secondary topped the examination league table for the London borough of Brent two years in succession in 1994 and 1995. In 1999/2000 it achieved a 96% pass rate, placing it second. For the academic year 2000/01 it gained an unequalled 100% pass rate, placing it first in the borough yet again. This year the school finished second in the league table, beaten to top spot only by our Brondesbury College for Boys

donated money to 911 to bribe american authorities to look the other way

Are you so cynical with every charitable donation? The man has given more then half his income to charity for the last 24 years.

He participated in a concert organized by Paul McCartney and VH1, and contributed to a CD that the proceeds went to 9/11 victims

http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1450485/11022001/mccartney_paul.jhtml

and is not internationally known for peace but rock and roll and drugs in his youth.....

Which he had renounced when he accepted Islam in the late 1970s. Everyone is suprised to hear about him now, because he has made a concerted effort to stay out of the limelight of the mainstream pop world, and instead has concentrated on first being a father to his children, and to helping those in need.

Look at all the winners...he is a social honorary winner to attract the muslim money to the crowd... this is a business event not a UN event...

It has honored Christopher Reeves, Paul McCartney, and the Firemen of New York, among many others.

At the beginning there was just a good idea: The best-selling author Georg Kindel isthe founder of The World Awards and the initiative Men's World Day.

He created the WORLD AWARDS to honor men who examplify the best attributes of mankind.

Look into his eyes and you will see a blind man that does not know CHRIST-
The Prince of Peace...where is his award?......

I have looked into his eyes, sat and talked with him, and he gives off such a sense of peace and calm to those around him.

He is an amazing man, and will continue to be one of my greatest rolemodels on how to live life in peace.

 

[Paula]

Do we know if Stevens should've known of their violent aims (it'd be easy to imagine them misrepresenting their aims and means)?

It does appear that Cat Stevens aka Yousef Islam either knew or would have reason to know of the violent goals of Hamas.

The history of Hamas-Fatah relations begins with the eruption of the first intifada on December 8, 1987.

See http://www.meforum.org/article/516

May I suggest you read Hamas' Covenant or Charter dated 18 August 1988. The complete Charter is provided in full in the link below. These are only some relevant highlights:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

Thus we see them coming on the horizon "and you shall learn about it hereafter" "Allah hath written, Verily I will prevail, and my apostles: for Allah is strong and mighty." (The Dispute - verse 21).


http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

 

[Firscherscherling]

Wow. How interesting. I just read the last two posts and it could't be more clear.

Some hate people based on religion no matter the good they do in the world.

Thank you Rahma for telling us about him and his good deeds. Thank you for knowing, informing and educating.

 

[hyperborean]

Wow. How interesting. I just read the last two posts and it could't be more clear.

Some hate people based on religion no matter the good they do in the world.

Thank you Rahma for telling us about him and his good deeds. Thank you for knowing, informing and educating.

Yes I mentioned that back in post 181. Rahma does seem pretty cool for a Muslim. Knowledge is power I guess.

 

[Lorena]

In 1998, Cat Stevens was the guest of honour at a Toronto fundraising dinner hosted by an organization that has since been identified by the Canadian government as a "front" for the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.

In a videotape of the 1998 event obtained by the National Post, Mr. Islam describes Israel as a "so-called new society" created by a "so-called religion" and urges the audience to donate to the Jerusalem Fund for Human Services to "lessen the suffering of our brothers and sisters in Palestine and the Holy Land."
The Jerusalem Fund is one of four "fronts" named in a secret Privy Council Office memo that was sent to Jean Chretien, then prime minister, on May 23, 2000, discussing what it called groups that "have unsavoury links with terrorism.

"Front groups operating in Canada include the Jerusalem Fund for Human Services (Hamas Front), the World Tamil Movement (Tamil Tigers Front), the Canadian Kurdish Information Network (Kurdistan Workers Party Front) and the Babbar Khalsa (a Sikh extremist front)."

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=572cea4b-839c-4080-9999-f53611a46aba


The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, the nation's largest Muslim charity, was also recently indicted for having ties to Hamas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18257-2004Jul27.html

I don't know how many other charities are involved. I'm sure this is only a partial list.

 

[tulc]

Rahma does seem pretty cool for a Muslim

rahma is just cool!
tulc(who is cool (but not pretty) for a Christian)

 

[rahma]

In 1998, Cat Stevens was the guest of honour at a Toronto fundraising dinner hosted by an organization that has since been identified by the Canadian government as a "front" for the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.

That is the key. At the time, it was not recognized as a front for Hamas.

Also, keep in mind that the majority of Hamas' money goes towards social services in Palestine, not terrorism.

The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, the nation's largest Muslim charity, was also recently indicted for having ties to Hamas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18257-2004Jul27.html

I don't know how many other charities are involved. I'm sure this is only a partial list.

Everyone and their mamma (fast becoming my favorite phrase) has donated to the Holy Land Foundation. There is still much debate within the Muslim community about the validity of the inditement. Keep in mind also that an indidement is not the same as being liable for or guilty of any action. Evidence still must be present and it must be proven in court.

 

[rahma]

rahma is just cool!
tulc(who is cool (but not pretty) for a Christian)