Singer Cat Stevens not allowed in US.

[tulc]

Never trust a hippie.

Man, if I didn't have granola baking in my solar oven right now I would hunt you down and pile flowers and love-beads on you to with an inch of your life!
tulc(more freak then hippie but sometime, you just got to step on up)

 

[SuzQ]

(emphasis added)

Heh. We clearly have different measures of success.

-burrow_owl (whose girlfriend, much to his consternation, signed him up for Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and just got a callback two minutes ago. Oy vey....)

(format copyright: tulc, 2003)

Shut...........up! Are you serious??? Let us know what happens!!! We can start a QE thread about it.....tee-hee!

*hates to admit, but I love the Fab Five!!! I could care less about the "gay" aspect & love to watch how they really DO help these men appreciate themselves more, their wives/girlfriends, their homes, etc, etc. GREAT show!*

 

[tulc]

(format copyright: tulc, 2003)

Hey thanks!
tulc(Queer-eye is a pretty fun show, let us know if you get on!)

 

[BarbB]

(emphasis added)

Heh. We clearly have different measures of success.

-burrow_owl (whose girlfriend, much to his consternation, signed him up for Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and just got a callback two minutes ago. Oy vey....)

(format copyright: tulc, 2003)

If you get on, burrow, I will watch that show for the first time ever! Let us know. Funny, but I assumed by your erudite posts that you were a dapper sort of guy!

 

[burrow_owl]

.

 

[SuzQ]

.

Are you suddenly speechless??? LOL!

 

[burrow_owl]

If you get on, burrow, I will watch that show for the first time ever! Let us know. Funny, but I assumed by your erudite posts that you were a dapper sort of guy!

Heh. I'm as dapper as dapper comes. That's gotta be why my girlfriend submitted that application! If the long odds play in my girlfriend's favor (i don't know if being roundly mocked for my slovenly habits is in my favor, y'know), I'll certainly let everyone know.

'k, sorry about the digression. Carry on.

 

[burrow_owl]

Man, if I didn't have granola baking in my solar oven right now I would hunt you down and pile flowers and love-beads on you to with an inch of your life

Tulc, you rule. That's genius.

 

[Brad'sDad]

Islam (Mr. Stevens for clarification) came under fire more than ten years ago when the British press alleged that he supported Ayatollah Khomeni's fatwa by calling for the life of author Salman Rushdie for committing blasphemy against the Qur'an in his novel The Satanic Verses. (Islam denied this claim to Rolling Stone last year)."

In the immortal words of a "Jewish" Eddie Murphy in "Coming to America" - "Ah-ha?!!".

I seriously doubt the guy is a threat. But, let's re-read that up above again. He only denied this LAST YEAR, but the story came out ten years ago?? Um, I guess I would question letting him in my "house", too after he called for the death of someone who denounced the Koran. That sounds "extremist" to me, how about you??

As for the administration being paranoid about any Muslim celebrities, simply because they're Muslim. I again offer: Mohammed Ali??? LOL! Furthermore, I found an intersting article from a Muslim describing his ordeal at being held up from boarding an American Airline flight because of his "Muslim name", yet he STILL describes why a vote for Bush is a vote FOR Muslims, not against them. I know others feel differently, but this is just another viewpoint, and from a MUSLIM:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/152/story_15262_1.html

Something to think about before we continue to try and denounce the administration on behalf of ALL Muslims everywhere.

Very wise of you, Miz SuzQ. Here's more about his "charitable donations":

A spokesman for the US Department of Homeland Security said Mr Islam was on the "watch list" because of his "known associations and financial support to organisations believed to be aiding terrorism". Officials said intelligence reports suggested he had given money to Hamas.

In 2000, he was deported from Israel after the authorities there claimed he had donated money to Hamas, allegations that he vehemently denied.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=564736

 

[rahma]

I seriously doubt the guy is a threat. But, let's re-read that up above again. He only denied this LAST YEAR, but the story came out ten years ago?? Um, I guess I would question letting him in my "house", too after he called for the death of someone who denounced the Koran. That sounds "extremist" to me, how about you??

Yusuf has clarified his statement. Why should we keep someone out if they have publicly amended their past mis-speaks? The Rushdie affair is something not well understood outside the Muslim communities of Britain where it started. One of the little known facts is that it began as a campaign to get Islam covered by Britain's anti-blasphemy laws that currently cover christianity, and I believe Judaism. If Rushdie had written the exact same book about the Bible and Jesus, he would have been breaking the law in England.

The book in question is very insulting to Muslims. As I mentioned on another thread, many Muslims love the Prophet (saws) more then themselves, and we consider his wives to be like our mothers (they are called the mothers of the believers). In the book, Rushdie insults the Prophet, and paints his wives as harlots. If someone called your mom a harlot, wouldn't you be upset?

Yusuf has been to the United States a number of times in the last decade, so why decide that he is a threat now?

 

[burrow_owl]

One of the little known facts is that it began as a campaign to get Islam covered by Britain's anti-blasphemy laws that currently cover christianity, and I believe Judaism.

Call me crazy, but I think there's something to this 'free speech' thing. I'd use the Rushdie affair as an appropriate moment to petition the enforcement of the blasphemy, rather than the equal enforcement vis-a-vis Islam.

Second, those laws may be on the books, but England has been passing statutes for centuries, many of which are still there but not enforced. I just find it difficult to believe that the blasphemy statutes are actually enforced (and if they were all of a sudden enforced, I'd imagine that common law collateral estoppel [ie, there's reasonable basis to believe it won't be enforced based on prior non-enforcement] would provide an adequate defense).

Personally, I'm fine with the 'he was young and dumb' defense of his actions.

 

[Voter]

Well, I know I feel a lot safer because someone is keeping the author of this song out of the country:

Now I've been happy lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun

Oh I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one
And I believe it could be, some day it's going to come

Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country, come take me home again

Now I've been smiling lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun

Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
Yes, peace train holy roller

Everyone jump upon the peace train
Come on now peace train

Get your bags together, go bring your good friends too
Cause it's getting nearer, it soon will be with you

Now come and join the living, it's not so far from you
And it's getting nearer, soon it will all be true

Now I've been crying lately, thinking about the world as it is
Why must we go on hating, why can't we live in bliss Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train

Oh peace train take this country, come take me home again

So. Can they deport the guy who wrote Gramma got Run Over By a Reindeer, next?

 

[burrow_owl]

Well, he developed different beliefs afterword, but as I understand (and Rahma can disagree, since I'm sure she knows more than I do), Muslim charities are deeply interwoven in ways that aren't transparent. There's no reason to think that Cat intended to give money to charities that laundered money for terrorists. He probably gave money to charities that gave money that gave money that gave money to terrorists.

Plus, I'd imagine that these connections are speculative; absent subpoena power, the government's position is probably better-safe-than-sorry with respect to this reputed chain.

 

[rahma]

A few random things -

House of Lords Page about Blasphemy laws and options


NPR interview with Yusuf Islam Around minute 11, Yusuf explains the Salman Rushdie thing



Statement from his site:

http://catstevens.com/

September 22nd, 2004
STATEMENT ON DEPORTATION ISSUE
Yusufislam.org.uk sent the follow statement today regarding the deportation incident.

Site visitors and fans alike will no doubt have heard about today's news that Yusuf Islam (Bio) has been refused entry into the US. As yet we have no specific information from the US immigration authorities as to why he was not allowed to enter the country. What we can say, however, is that he will be shocked and angered at being associated with anyone who commits acts of violence. He has vehemently and consistently criticized terrorist acts and has always advocated peace through his songs and his extensive humanitarian relief work. He has travelled many times to the US, most recently two months ago on a visit with his record company. Any suggestion therefore that he poses a security risk due to alleged connections with terrorist activities is totally denied as it is simply wrong. We are seeking further details so that we can challenge the decision to refuse him entry. When we have more information we will be able to comment further. We feel certain that this matter will be resolved soon.

 

[burrow_owl]

Here's the key part from the report:

In the twentieth century there were only four reported judgements.

In other words, it's just an old law that hasn't been enforced. If I were an activist there, I'd have used the moment to just try to get that old, useless law repealed, rather than to argue that this stupid law should be more expansively enforced, which is what Cat apparently did.

 

[BobbieDog]

A spokesman for the US Department of Homeland Security said Mr Islam was on the "watch list" because of his "known associations and financial support to organisations believed to be aiding terrorism". Officials said intelligence reports suggested he had given money to Hamas.

In 2000, he was deported from Israel after the authorities there claimed he had donated money to Hamas, allegations that he vehemently denied.

Such claims and intelligence never having to account for themselves: never having to put to the test; just assinations of inuendo from out of a darkness.
Never, ever forgetting that this same intelligence took armies in to Iraq, to sieze WMD which turned out not to exist.
Take a good man, who spends a lifetime building and proving himself in good: in the light of faith, and the public domain; and destroy him in an instant with the slanderer's knife of unaccounatble inuendo.

Please back up every one of these claims. Don't just repeat innuendos, suggestions, and third party claims.
This is what happens through profiling. Things are not thought through, not proved, nor documented. The process of profiling is what generates all the evidence there is: where the stench of its unfounded suggestions are what remains and hangs in the air.
Just remember how convincing was the evidence of the guilt of the Jew: how convinced Germans became in what they saw in the Jew, in what they knew of the Jew, in what they knew the Jew did to and intended for them as Germans. And then, one April day in 1945, the power that had sustained this mythology of the Jew, in all its convincing detail: was crushed and broken, such that air and light again broke through for the Jew; and the horrid Nazi mythology of the Jew, just vapourised.

 

[Izzy23]

Too bad. I really like Cat Stevens. I guess He was looking for answers and turned to the wrong god. Jesus is the answer, Mr. Stevens.

 

[BarbB]

...
The book in question is very insulting to Muslims. As I mentioned on another thread, many Muslims love the Prophet (saws) more then themselves, and we consider his wives to be like our mothers (they are called the mothers of the believers). In the book, Rushdie insults the Prophet, and paints his wives as harlots. If someone called your mom a harlot, wouldn't you be upset?

rahma, I hear what you are saying, but am I misunderstanding that Rushdie has not had his life threatened by the fatwa? For an insult, perceived or otherwise?

The Last Temptation of Christ was also insulting, but I did not hear the Pope calling for (insert Long Greek Name I can't remember here) execution for the honor of Christendom!

 

[rahma]

rahma, I hear what you are saying, but am I misunderstanding that Rushdie has not had his life threatened by the fatwa? For an insult, perceived or otherwise?

Ayatollah Khomenei, a Shia, issued a fatwa (non binding religious opinion) that Rushdie should be killed for blasphemy. However, as most muslims in the world are Sunni, they could care less what a Shia leader has to say. Additionally, most scholars agree that one cannot simply issue an order for someone to be killed. They must be arrested and tried.

 

[BarbB]

Ayatollah Khomenei, a Shia, issued a fatwa (non binding religious opinion) that Rushdie should be killed for blasphemy. However, as most muslims in the world are Sunni, they could care less what a Shia leader has to say. Additionally, most scholars agree that one cannot simply issue an order for someone to be killed. They must be arrested and tried.

Well, Rushdie certainly felt threatened, as he's been in seclusion most of the last decade. I have seen that he's out and about more these days. But he took it seriously.

And the result was that the stupid book probably sold 200% more than it would have if published without comment.