Since we are not under the law, why do we still Tithe?

Frogster · May 3, 2014

from scratch said:
I wish that these people would read the Bible.

better yet, understand it!

Good to see ya bro!

charles1014 · May 3, 2014

The tithe is a very interesting subject matter and one that I have studied quite extensively because I felt it was important for my children and other family members.

All the arguments for the tithe go back to Abraham because he was before the Law of Moses (where the tithe became part of the ceremonial). However, no one seems to care about mentioning that Jacob's vow to tithe was also before the Law of Moses.

The key to understanding Abraham's tithe is through the use of the Scriptures. (There is no Scripture of private interpretation. All sound doctrine can be backed up by numerous other passages found throughout the Word of God.) All Scripture that point back to this event (Ps 110:4, and Hebrews chapters 5-7) all have one common element in them to let us know why God thought it important to record it, and that was to reveal Christ as our Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek and not after the order of Aaron. No passage can be found anywhere in Scripture where we are instructed to tithe after the manner of Abraham. The use of the tithe in the passage was to be meant as a tool for the means in which God would make way for a very important element in our salvation. It was used as a tool only and had no other significance.
It is interesting to note that God did not record any motive on Abraham's part to give this tithe to Melchizedek, even though pastors today are more than eager to give a myriad of reasons as to why we are to give this tithe. Abraham's motive to tithe was never recorded for good reason and that is because God did not want the focus to be on the tithe but on the significance of the event.
It is also noteworthy as to when this event took place. It took place in Chapter 14 just prior to Abraham's salvation in Chapter 15. Have you ever thought to ask yourself why? There was obviously a good reason for God to do this and it would be good for us to seek that answer out.
It is recorded throughout NT Scripture that Christians today are the children of Abraham. We are not the children of Jacob (Israel) but of Abraham only. Since Levi, and the Levitical tribe with the priest were still yet in the loins of Abraham when Abraham gave this tithe to Melchizedek, it also stands to reason that since Abraham was not saved during the time of tithe event but afterwards, that we also were still yet in his loins when he gave this tithe. Just as Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek, we also, as the sons of Abraham, paid this tithe as well. God never recorded another tithe by Abraham again, because this one tithe was all that was needed to secure Christ as being our High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek. Even though Abraham's wealth increased greatly over the years, never again do we find him tithing.
Jacob's tithe is very interesting because he made a conditional vow to God to give Him a tenth if God would indeed do certain things for him. No pastor that I know of has ever held Jacob up as a model for how we are to give. This is also the first time that the use of the vow was recorded in Scripture, which has other significance but can't get into here. Jacob promised to give God a tenth back of all that He would give him, if God did certain things for Him. We found that God did fulfill His end of the bargain but we never see anywhere in Scripture where Jacob ever paid the tithe. The reason for this is because there was a certain element that everyone overlooks. Jacob promised to give God back a tenth of what He would give him and what God gave him was all of the land on which his head was resting (the same land promised to Abraham and Isaac). The problem Jacob had was that the land was only his by promise, he never actually held title deed to it.
Now, since Jacob had no children at this time, this means that all his children were still yet in his loins and were now held in bondage to this vow that their father just made to God, because now God would forever lay claim to the tenth of the land of their inheritance. The tithe was only on crops and livestock and never on money or goods produced from man's hands because that was not part of the deal that Jacob made with God. Besides, not much of man's hands did God ever find valuable anyway.
Leviticus 27:30 and 32 reveals God's claim to the tithe of the land and nothing else.
The tithe was from nothing else and was never to even be meant for the sole purpose of ministering. The tithe was the children of Levi's inheritance and then they were to give a tithe to the priests who ministered in the temple. The tithe of the other tribes did not go to the temple but to the Levites in their cities.
It is noteworthy here also that during the forty years of wandering through the wilderness, not one time did the children of Israel pay a tithe to the Levites, even though the priesthood was all set up and the tabernacle was in full function. The reason for this was because the children of Israel had not yet come into the land of promise, their inheritance. Since they were not yet in their inheritance, the children of Levi could not enjoy their inheritance either which was a tenth of the other tribe's inheritance.

Now, this is a very complex study and unfortunately there is no room for it here, so I encourage you to check out the website DoctrinePrimer.

from scratch · May 3, 2014

charles1014 said:
The tithe is a very interesting subject matter and one that I have studied quite extensively because I felt it was important for my children and other family members.

All the arguments for the tithe go back to Abraham because he was before the Law of Moses (where the tithe became part of the ceremonial). However, no one seems to care about mentioning that Jacob's vow to tithe was also before the Law of Moses.

The key to understanding Abraham's tithe is through the use of the Scriptures. (There is no Scripture of private interpretation. All sound doctrine can be backed up by numerous other passages found throughout the Word of God.) All Scripture that point back to this event (Ps 110:4, and Hebrews chapters 5-7) all have one common element in them to let us know why God thought it important to record it, and that was to reveal Christ as our Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek and not after the order of Aaron. No passage can be found anywhere in Scripture where we are instructed to tithe after the manner of Abraham. The use of the tithe in the passage was to be meant as a tool for the means in which God would make way for a very important element in our salvation. It was used as a tool only and had no other significance.
It is interesting to note that God did not record any motive on Abraham's part to give this tithe to Melchizedek, even though pastors today are more than eager to give a myriad of reasons as to why we are to give this tithe. Abraham's motive to tithe was never recorded for good reason and that is because God did not want the focus to be on the tithe but on the significance of the event.
It is also noteworthy as to when this event took place. It took place in Chapter 14 just prior to Abraham's salvation in Chapter 15. Have you ever thought to ask yourself why? There was obviously a good reason for God to do this and it would be good for us to seek that answer out.
It is recorded throughout NT Scripture that Christians today are the children of Abraham. We are not the children of Jacob (Israel) but of Abraham only. Since Levi, and the Levitical tribe with the priest were still yet in the loins of Abraham when Abraham gave this tithe to Melchizedek, it also stands to reason that since Abraham was not saved during the time of tithe event but afterwards, that we also were still yet in his loins when he gave this tithe. Just as Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek, we also, as the sons of Abraham, paid this tithe as well. God never recorded another tithe by Abraham again, because this one tithe was all that was needed to secure Christ as being our High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek. Even though Abraham's wealth increased greatly over the years, never again do we find him tithing.
Jacob's tithe is very interesting because he made a conditional vow to God to give Him a tenth if God would indeed do certain things for him. No pastor that I know of has ever held Jacob up as a model for how we are to give. This is also the first time that the use of the vow was recorded in Scripture, which has other significance but can't get into here. Jacob promised to give God a tenth back of all that He would give him, if God did certain things for Him. We found that God did fulfill His end of the bargain but we never see anywhere in Scripture where Jacob ever paid the tithe. The reason for this is because there was a certain element that everyone overlooks. Jacob promised to give God back a tenth of what He would give him and what God gave him was all of the land on which his head was resting (the same land promised to Abraham and Isaac). The problem Jacob had was that the land was only his by promise, he never actually held title deed to it.
Now, since Jacob had no children at this time, this means that all his children were still yet in his loins and were now held in bondage to this vow that their father just made to God, because now God would forever lay claim to the tenth of the land of their inheritance. The tithe was only on crops and livestock and never on money or goods produced from man's hands because that was not part of the deal that Jacob made with God. Besides, not much of man's hands did God ever find valuable anyway.
Leviticus 27:30 and 32 reveals God's claim to the tithe of the land and nothing else.
The tithe was from nothing else and was never to even be meant for the sole purpose of ministering. The tithe was the children of Levi's inheritance and then they were to give a tithe to the priests who ministered in the temple. The tithe of the other tribes did not go to the temple but to the Levites in their cities.
It is noteworthy here also that during the forty years of wandering through the wilderness, not one time did the children of Israel pay a tithe to the Levites, even though the priesthood was all set up and the tabernacle was in full function. The reason for this was because the children of Israel had not yet come into the land of promise, their inheritance. Since they were not yet in their inheritance, the children of Levi could not enjoy their inheritance either which was a tenth of the other tribe's inheritance.

Now, this is a very complex study and unfortunately there is no room for it here, so I encourage you to check out the website DoctrinePrimer.

Some very good points about Abraham and his tithe.

Cribstyl · May 4, 2014

from scratch said:
Tithe must be from your increase. What Abraham gave to Mel wasn't his property and therefore not a tithe from him. Abraham returned all the stolen property to whom it was taken from. There is no record of Abraham tithing his increase found in the Bible.

About 1 Cor 16, is this found within your post -
Did I say anything about 1Cor 16?

Tithing was a principle the NT bare witness as passed down from Abraham.
Genesis shows that Jacob continued this tradition from His father.

Gen 28:18
¶
And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

Gen 28:19

And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.

Gen 28:20

And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

Gen 28:21

So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:

Gen 28:22

And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

OK...just read charles1064 post....that's very good info......
Yet still.................
Hebrew 7:8 lets us know that the everlasting priesthood located in heaven receives tithes.

from scratch · May 4, 2014

Frogster said:
better yet, understand it!

Good to see ya bro!

Ya jus cain't understand if ya ignore and refuse to hear/read. Certainly I wish they understood the Bible.

Very happy to see you posting here.

from scratch · May 4, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Tithing was a principle the NT bare witness as passed down from Abraham.
Genesis shows that Jacob continued this tradition from His father.

Gen 28:18
¶
And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

Gen 28:19

And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.

Gen 28:20

And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

Gen 28:21

So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:

Gen 28:22

And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

OK...just read charles1064 post....that's very good info......
Yet still.................
Hebrew 7:8 lets us know that the everlasting priesthood located in heaven receives tithes.

There isn't one single passage in the New Testament indicating an obligation to tithe.

Frogster · May 4, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Tithing was a principle the NT bare witness as passed down from Abraham.
Genesis shows that Jacob continued this tradition from His father.

Gen 28:18
¶
And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

Gen 28:19

And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.

Gen 28:20

And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

Gen 28:21

So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:

Gen 28:22

And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

OK...just read charles1064 post....that's very good info......
Yet still.................
Hebrew 7:8 lets us know that the everlasting priesthood located in heaven receives tithes.

Do we have levirate marriage, Abe did?

Lets uphold the "principle", Abe tithed once, so did I, I am done!

Besides, lets not turn the Abe man of grace into tithing law. I think there are some passages that show he offered a few animals, do we?

Good to see ya bro!

Frogster · May 4, 2014

from scratch said:
There isn't one single passage in the New Testament indicating an obligation to tithe.

Yepster!

Frogster · May 4, 2014

Working apostles... Watchman Nee said, the apostles did not go around begging, they had faith. Paul did not want to burden the church.

Paul, Timothy, Titus, Barnabas, Silas, Priscila and Aquilla, working, while Paul was being beat up all the time, and bringing the gospel to the world. Is pastor busier than Paul?

1 Thess 2:9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

2 Thess 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.

Acts 20:33, said to elders, I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. 35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Acts 18:3 and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade

1 Cor 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure;

1 Cor 9:6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

2 Cor 6:5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger;

2 Cor 11:23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better oneI am talking like a madmanwith far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death.

2 Cor 11:27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.

GeeI dont want your moneyCHILDREN DONT SAVE FOR THE PARENTS, BUT TODAY, PASTOR HAS IT ALL BACKWARDS! There is the burden word again, Paul did not want to burden people.

2 Cor 12:14 Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours (possessions) but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

And in the place he did speak of receiving funds, he was couteous, and reticent about getting helped, certainly this is no legalistic tithing teaching here.

Phil 4:11, not out of need did he speak, he kept that to himself, going hungry leaning on grace, before asking.

4:17 "I dont seek it", and he called it a gift, not extraction, and he did not go around "seeking".

And the little help he got, he felt like it was robbery, because he really didn't even want that.

2 Cor 11:8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you

I say, time for pastor to ger a real job!

Frogster · May 4, 2014

from scratch said:
Ya jus cain't understand if ya ignore and refuse to hear/read. Certainly I wish they understood the Bible.

Very happy to see you posting here.

Thanks, just like old times!

Sophrosyne · May 4, 2014

Frogster said:
Do we have levirate marriage, Abe did?

Lets uphold the "principle", Abe tithed once, so did I, I am done!

Besides, lets not turn the Abe man of grace into tithing law. I think there are some passages that show he offered a few animals, do we?

Good to see ya bro!

You forgot that Abe offered up his son for a sacrifice too just once

Sophrosyne · May 4, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
You forgot that Abe offered up his son for a sacrifice too just once

And Noah built an Ark just once too.

Frogster · May 4, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
You forgot that Abe offered up his son for a sacrifice too just once

Good point!

Since we are not under the law, why do we still Tithe?

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