Sin

[RDKirk]

I never said you said those words. But instead of asking God to forgive the individual sins, you blind yourself to these and ask for a blanket "one prayer covers all" confession. IT is not really any repentance there as no one can repentent of merely being a generic sinner. One repents of inidividual sins. These have to be seen, confess and repented of individually.

You need to stop lying on me. Just stop.

Does he ever give you specific answers. Can you share a testimony of some?

Actually, yes. And I have several times in these forums.

If you really, really, really intend to do what He says, make His instructions the only thing you plan to do tomorrow, He will give you something to do, and He will say it plainly and make it perfectly clear. For me, He has even named names--identified people I'd meet the next day by name, even people I did not even then know.

But that is a point of intention to obedience that is difficult for me, personally, to attain and maintain. I've done it a handful of times over the years, but the cares of the world are oh, so entangling.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Actually, yes. And I have several times in these forums.

Like where?

If you really, really, really intend to do what He says, make His instructions the only thing you plan to do tomorrow, He will give you something to do, and He will say it plainly and make it perfectly clear.

He guides me as I walk through the day. He doesn’t require really really really intend so far, just willing at the moment of choice. But you are right, God doesn’t give that kind of instruction to the merely curious. But I have already made choices of obedience and made following Jesus my life.

For me, He has even named names--identified people I'd meet the next day by name, even people I did not even then know.

And? You healed the sick? Had a word of knowledge? What happened? Where did you give details?

But that is a point of intention to obedience that is difficult for me, personally, to attain and maintain. I've done it a handful of times over the years, but the cares of the world are oh, so entangling.

Yes I understand. But when He touches others through you it’s wonderful, isn’t it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, Jesus said this: "A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house" (Mark 6:4). But he can heal anyone who wants to listen to him.

That’s not what it says. It says he couldn’t. Didn’t say they weren’t listening. Says they didn’t believe.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you do is cherry pick and I can cherry pick apart your isolated verses with other verses. For example, Jesus said he who endures to the end will be saved. No promise He makes anyone endure. The Greek really does say many will fall away, but you refuse to find it because it will destroy your position.

I am aware of verses that warn against falling away; however I am also of the opinion that such verses don't nullify the verses that speak on eternal security. I reconcile them through the understanding that the people who are recipients of the promises on eternal security are also the same people who heed the warnings against falling away...because we are soft-hearted concerning the warnings and also heed them, the warnings become the safeguard against falling away...and therefore for those of us who heed the warnings, the promises stand certain.

No one learns eternal security from the scriptures. No one. You learned it from people.

Just as the Thessalonicans learned it from people (the apostles). 1 Thessalonians 1:5 (kjv)...

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

But you refused to look at the Greek for Matt 10 where it says many will fall away. You just says you’re not believing me as though I’m not honest. That’s a personal insult, judging my character.

It has nothing to do with you. I only met you yesterday; and when people try to tell me that what I read in English is not the proper wording (that it really should be translated differently), I feel that they are arguing about words (which is a no-no...see 1 Timothy 6:4, 2 Timothy 2:14). Now I realize that I am the one who is being a stickler for the form of words found in the kjv (see 2 Timothy 1:13); but I do this for a reason; I started out with the kjv and when someone suggested I try a different translation, I took their suggestion and my walk with Christ went downhill from there. And when I returned to the kjv things started looking up again concerning my walk with Christ. So I just find that the kjv is better for my walk.

Also, the claiming that what the scripture says is false because a different Greek word should have been used sets up the hearer towards a cult-like mentality...the person giving the understanding of the original Greek or Hebrew becomes the dictator of what the Bible really says if the hearer doesn't have an understanding of the Greek language or how it works and cannot therefore check what the person is saying with their own study. I was never privy to a class that teaches even the basics of the Greek language so I don't rely on people's amateur attempts at translating the Bible, but I trust that God preserved His word to us in the Bibles that we have in English (especially the kjv) and I rely on the author of the Book (the Holy Spirit) to tell me what His Book means when interpretation comes into question.

And btw, when your expressions towards other people are judgmental (i.e. "you are selfish") you should expect to be judged (Matthew 7:1-6, Luke 6:37, Romans 2:1-3, James 4:11-12).

Ask Him if eternal life is just being forgiven or following Jesus. That’s a more pressing matter.

It should be clear that no one has eternal life unless they are forgiven of all their sin. Following Jesus is the result of being saved...when a person is born again/redeemed/forgiven, they become new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). Because we are forgiven much, we love much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5; Ephesians 3:19 with 1 John 4:8 & 1 John 4:16); and this love is practical (1 John 3:17-18) and is also the fulfilling of the law's righteousness within us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

As I said I can extract verses that say you... not him in you... have to endure and why some fall away from the faith and how one had shipwrecked his faith and how some called “lord lord” and were eternally lost. These you reject.

I do not reject them but I hold them in their proper perspective. Are you certain that it isn't you who are rejecting those verses that could be promises to you that your salvation is secure in Him?

Please look up Acts of the Apostles 18:6 and 2 Timothy 2:25. What those verses hold in common is what I perceive of you based on our conversation so far.

Word of wisdom is not a gift you have. You would have to love truth above security for that to be true. You need to receive the whole Word, not just bits you like.

The word of wisdom gift was prophesied over me as being my spiritual gift through the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Now in 1 Timothy 1:18 it says, This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies that were before on thee, that by them thou mightest war a good warfare: 1 Timothy 4:14, Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

And while these instructions were originally given to Timothy, we also know that all scripture is inspired by the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Principles of scripture that originally applied only to certain people can be apprehended as either promises or commands or spiritual principles that we can abide by in the churches.

And I do in fact receive the whole word and not just bits I like. I don't reject bits that you don't like, however.

Again you and what you got as central.

I see nothing wrong with this. Don't we overcome the devil, the accuser of the brethren, by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony? (Revelation 12:11).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am aware of verses that warn against falling away; however I am also of the opinion that such verses don't nullify the verses that speak on eternal security. I reconcile them through the understanding that the people who are recipients of the promises on eternal security are also the same people who heed the warnings against falling away...because we are soft-hearted concerning the warnings and also heed them, the warnings become the safeguard against falling away...and therefore for those of us who heed the warnings, the promises stand certain.



Just as the Thessalonicans learned it from people (the apostles). 1 Thessalonians 1:5 (kjv)...

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

I assume that uh, the word came in word only with no power. Your assurance there is not of eternal security. But again, you cheery pick out the words you like and make them say something the author is not saying. The "much assurance" was demonstrated in power and Paul speaks of this in other places. And the manner changing the Bible is not too convincing.

It has nothing to do with you. I only met you yesterday; and when people try to tell me that what I read in English is not the proper wording (that it really should be translated differently), I feel that they are arguing about words (which is a no-no...see 1 Timothy 6:4, 2 Timothy 2:14). Now I realize that I am the one who is being a stickler for the form of words found in the kjv (see 2 Timothy 1:13); but I do this for a reason; I started out with the kjv and when someone suggested I try a different translation, I took their suggestion and my walk with Christ went downhill from there. And when I returned to the kjv things started looking up again concerning my walk with Christ. So I just find that the kjv is better for my walk.

You are not a stickler for words at all. You fool yourself. You change the words such as predestined to be conformed to his image to predestined for heaven. You change "assurance" as in power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit to eternal assurance of heaven. You are very loose with words.

Also, the claiming that what the scripture says is false because a different Greek word should have been used sets up the hearer towards a cult-like mentality...

Again you are loose with words. The Greek is not different. The KJV chooses words that no longer mean the same and are different than the Greek. Not the Greek was changed. The Greek you do not like with it conflicts with your comforting theology.

the person giving the understanding of the original Greek or Hebrew becomes the dictator of what the Bible really says if the hearer doesn't have an understanding of the Greek language or how it works and cannot therefore check what the person is saying with their own study.

Again, you are very loose with words. No one translates Greek from the English. Sorry but it is the other way around.

Now you are monolingual I take it as you think translation is a one to one matter. IT is not. From any language to any other always requires some judgement calls. Greek to English is no different.

I was never privy to a class that teaches even the basics of the Greek language so I don't rely on people's amateur attempts at translating the Bible, but I trust that God preserved His word to us in the Bibles that we have in English (especially the kjv) and I rely on the author of the Book (the Holy Spirit) to tell me what His Book means when interpretation comes into question.

Uh, words have particular meanings or more than one but the translations one finds word for word are awkward in syntax. IT does not mean whatever it means is subject to amateur understanding. The matter of translation is something you are not understanding and so you call those who know more than one language "amateurs." And these are not Bible translations. Ever try google translation? This is not even a person and the syntax is hilarious.

And btw, when your expressions towards other people are judgmental (i.e. "you are selfish") you should expect to be judged (Matthew 7:1-6, Luke 6:37, Romans 2:1-3, James 4:11-12).

Calling professionals "AMATEUR" is falsely judgemental. YOu call people names. I said your theology is very self-focused. That is your theology, not you. YOu need to learn the difference.

It should be clear that no one has eternal life unless they are forgiven of all their sin. Following Jesus is the result of being saved...when a person is born again/redeemed/forgiven, they become new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). Because we are forgiven much, we love much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5; Ephesians 3:19 with 1 John 4:8 & 1 John 4:16); and this love is practical (1 John 3:17-18) and is also the fulfilling of the law's righteousness within us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

"My sheep hear my voice and they follow me." Where did Jesus say that those who are forgiven of ALL their sin are saved? Again, you do not like what Jesus said eternal life is. It is knowing God. You want the promise of all your future deeds evil or just bad to be forgiven already. Where is the love of God and man in this?

I do not reject them but I hold them in their proper perspective. Are you certain that it isn't you who are rejecting those verses that could be promises to you that your salvation is secure in Him?

I could laugh out loud if it were not serious. You cling to what you want to be promises of salvation from hell and I hear the living God tell me that I have done well and He is pleased with what I did. I walk with Him and talk with Him and have fellowship that is very satisfying. I know Him, the One True God and therefore have eternal life as Jesus promised. YOu insist all your future evil deeds are already forgiven so you can know you are not going to hell.

Please look up Acts of the Apostles 18:6 and 2 Timothy 2:25. What those verses hold in common is what I perceive of you based on our conversation so far.

Please look up John 17:3. That is what I am living as well as Philippians 3:10. IF you had any descernment at all you would know this already.

The word of wisdom gift was prophesied over me as being my spiritual gift through the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Now in 1 Timothy 1:18 it says, This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies that were before on thee, that by them thou mightest war a good warfare: 1 Timothy 4:14, Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Well, they might have done so but God has not acknowledged it apparently when looking at your appauling lack of ability to read and understand what I say of myself. I see no word of wisdom nor normal wisdom. I tell you that my heart is to know God and you tell me that I am opposing you. I mean that is a lack of being able to read the words themselves. No wisdom and no discernment. Sorry but it is not there.

And while these instructions were originally given to Timothy, we also know that all scripture is inspired by the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Principles of scripture that originally applied only to certain people can be apprehended as either promises or commands or spiritual principles that we can abide by in the churches.

Men can lay hands on whoever they want and declare whatever they want but if God does not agree, He does not grant his spirit in according to the wishes of men. I recall some self-declared prophets laying hands on Todd Bently and declaring more of the Holy Spirit and what God did was expose the man within a short time as an adultery. SO much for prophets of God. God did not respond to them but exposed them as false prophets with no discernment at all. It is a risky business to explain to someone some spiritual gift that God does not agree with at all. BTW, those who really do have a word of wisdom are told that by others because they are wise.

I see nothing wrong with this. Don't we overcome the devil, the accuser of the brethren, by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony? (Revelation 12:11).

The Word of your testimony is not how God forgave all your future evil deeds (sins) ahead of time.

Remember when the day comes and your behaviour is not soft-hearted heeding the warnings of scripture but you find that you have ignored them, remember that this shows that you are not eternal secure. In that day you will not measure up to what you said above of your type. In my faith, you can repent and be forgiven. In yours, you never were saved in the first place.

 

[dreadnought]

That’s not what it says. It says he couldn’t. Didn’t say they weren’t listening. Says they didn’t believe.

But that's their problem, not ours.

 

[justbyfaith]

"My sheep hear my voice and they follow me." Where did Jesus say that those who are forgiven of ALL their sin are saved?

Jesus doesn't have to declare something that is a first truth of common sense. He came to tell us what we couldn't figure out for ourselves.

I tell you that my heart is to know God and you tell me that I am opposing you.

No, I said you were opposing yourself. Because the hope and assurance of salvation acts as a helmet that protects you when in the middle of a spiritual battle if you have it (see 1 Thessalonians 5:8 and Ephesians 6:10-18). You are going into battle without a helmet to protect your mind. I am attempting to provide for you a helmet; but something in you doesn't want to believe that salvation can even be secure in Christ.

I recall some self-declared prophets laying hands on Todd Bently and declaring more of the Holy Spirit and what God did was expose the man within a short time as an adultery. SO much for prophets of God. God did not respond to them but exposed them as false prophets with no discernment at all.

I live in California and if I hadn't lived in South Carolina for seven years I wouldn't even know who Todd Bentley was. But I recall that in that situation, the people who laid hands on Todd did so because they were aware of certain problems and knew that if he were a lone ranger under no authority he could do a lot of damage to the body. So by laying hands on him, they brought him under their authority and thus were able to remove him from ministry as soon as his sin became evident to the general public.

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s not what it says. It says he couldn’t. Didn’t say they weren’t listening. Says they didn’t believe.

Jesus is God and therefore He is Omnipotent. Therefore the only reason why He couldn't do miracles for them was because they didn't believe in Him enough to come to Him for those miracles. Get the picture?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Word of your testimony is not how God forgave all your future evil deeds (sins) ahead of time.

Actually it is. And how my coming to the understanding of that has changed my life so that I am walking in more freedom sin than I ever before had.

 

[justbyfaith]

Remember when the day comes and your behaviour is not soft-hearted heeding the warnings of scripture but you find that you have ignored them, remember that this shows that you are not eternal secure. In that day you will not measure up to what you said above of your type. In my faith, you can repent and be forgiven. In yours, you never were saved in the first place.

Okay, I wasn't going to answer this but I think I will.

I know that I heed the warnings of scripture and that they are like a stick that is connected by a string to another stick that is represented by the promises of eternal security in the word. When I begin to pull the sticks apart, it formulates a new construct as the string becomes taut between the two sticks. If I only understood the warnings of scripture I would only have one stick. If I only understood the promises on eternal security I would only have another stick. But because I have connected both sticks by the string of understanding that the same people who are recipients of the promises on eternal security have to be the people who heed the warnings against falling away (that in heeding the warnings there is a safeguard against falling away so that the promises hold true in my life); there is a new construct that I can also add to other constructs of scriptural truth in order to produce an even greater construct of a pure theology. Maybe eventually something even like an airplane or a house.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But that's their problem, not ours.

If we don’t believe then He CANT do some things for us either. That is then our problem.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Okay, I wasn't going to answer this but I think I will.

I know that I heed the warnings of scripture and that they are like a stick that is connected by a string to another stick that is represented by the promises of eternal security in the word. When I begin to pull the sticks apart, it formulates a new construct as the string becomes taut between the two sticks. If I only understood the warnings of scripture I would only have one stick. If I only understood the promises on eternal security I would only have another stick. But because I have connected both sticks by the string of understanding that the same people who are recipients of the promises on eternal security have to be the people who heed the warnings against falling away (that in heeding the warnings there is a safeguard against falling away so that the promises hold true in my life); there is a new construct that I can also add to other constructs of scriptural truth in order to produce an even greater construct of a pure theology. Maybe eventually something even like an airplane or a house.

You say you get your view from the Bible but then tell me you get your teaching from men. This is certainly something you did not think up. Just be aware that clearly your thinking you get from men who teach you.

I am curious, what do you think the parable of the different kinds of soil talks about?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Actually it is. And how my coming to the understanding of that has changed my life so that I am walking in more freedom sin than I ever before had.

That you are now walking in more freedom sin since some man taught you this I don’t believe. The teaching is too fresh and your gratefulness too deep.

That freedom sin will come later when the newness has worn off and the joy of doing as you desire believing God already forgave your wrong starts to soften your resolve. The christians who did the worst sin towards others that I can think of thought they were eternally secure so it didn’t really matter anymore. This bears fruit in time. Freedom sin then shows more obviously.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus is God and therefore He is Omnipotent. Therefore the only reason why He couldn't do miracles for them was because they didn't believe in Him enough to come to Him for those miracles. Get the picture?

That is NOT what it says. I know it shakes your boat to think Jesus couldn’t do something but that’s what it says. It also says Jesus asked questions obviously looking for information. Jesus told his disciples that a boy wasn’t healed because of THEIR unbelief.

How much or how little God can do in a life depends upon.....us. Scary thought but true.

“The eyes of the Lord look to and fro thoughout the earth that they might find the one whose heart is completely His that HE might fully support him.”

God fully supporting a man depends not on his power but on the state of our hearts. That Jesus COULD do no or few miracles there didn’t affect his ability. There are prayers he cannot answer because of the state of our heart. We really can limit God. That is how He works or the reason He doesn’t at times.

 

[justbyfaith]

So let me get this straight...do you believe that Jesus couldn't do many miracles there because He wasn't Omnipotent God?

We limit God simply when we don't ask for what we need in faith.

He is a God who answers prayer. When we don't come to Him seeking for the answer, He can't do what we ask for; not because He is powerless, but because we didn't come to Him for the answer in faith.

We limit Him through our unbelief. If we don't have faith that He will answer, we won't ask; and therefore we also won't receive (James 4:2).

 

[justbyfaith]

That you are now walking in more freedom sin since some man taught you this I don’t believe. The teaching is too fresh and your gratefulness too deep.

That freedom sin will come later when the newness has worn off and the joy of doing as you desire believing God already forgave your wrong starts to soften your resolve. The christians who did the worst sin towards others that I can think of thought they were eternally secure so it didn’t really matter anymore. This bears fruit in time. Freedom sin then shows more obviously.

Here is something for you to read, @Dorothy Mae.

(go to the following link and read the original and second post):

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/wet-paint-principle-freedom.8079306/

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So let me get this straight...do you believe that Jesus couldn't do many miracles there because He wasn't Omnipotent God?

We limit God simply when we don't ask for what we need in faith.

“ you ask but don’t receive because you ask with wrong motives”

He is a God who answers prayer. When we don't come to Him seeking for the answer, He can't do what we ask for; not because He is powerless, but because we didn't come to Him for the answer in faith.

Read the bit you won’t like. If we come in full faith with wrong motives, He won’t answer. And stop blaming God saying Him saying he’s then not all powerful. Look for a different reason He doesn’t answer.

We limit Him through our unbelief. If we don't have faith that He will answer, we won't ask; and therefore we also won't receive (James 4:2).

Read the rest of James. Wrong thinking limits what God will do or can do.We must realize that He works on principle.

Jesus/God wept over the city. Was He impotent to gather them? You seem to think either God can do something or is impotent. That He works on principle and that limits what He does is something you need to consider.

If we believe but ask with wrong motives no answer to prayer will come.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Here is something for you to read, @Dorothy Mae.

(go to the following link and read the original post):

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...paint-principle-the-complete-version.8043488/

I will later but this shows that your theology comes from men. You claim you believe the Bible but you quote men who showed you which verses to isolate so you think you can force God into some position that comforts you.

 

[justbyfaith]

And stop blaming God saying Him saying he’s then not all powerful.

That is not what I said. Everything I've said to you on this subject has been to convince you that Jesus is Omnipotent.

 

[justbyfaith]

I will later but this shows that your theology comes from men. You claim you believe the Bible but you quote men who showed you which verses to isolate so you think you can force God into some position that comforts you.

No; I'm the one who wrote it and I got it from the Holy Spirit and many years of reading (and it was also the answer to prayer concerning what I was going through over a long period of time). But if you receive it from me, then you will have gotten it from a man. So don't even read it: just keep reading your Bible and don't even come to Christian Forums: you might end up getting some kind of theology from men.