Sin unto death

[fli]

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV




In verse 16 the Christian sinning a sin that does not lead to death we are to pray for him. Still in verse 16 as a result of our intercessory prayer God will give him life. If God gives him life as a result of our prayer then the sin not unto death must lead to death. Still in verse 16 there is a sin leading to death which we are not to pray for.



How many types of death are there?



Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. NKJV



Being tossed into the lake of fire is the second death. There are no other deaths after the lake of fire. Since the lake of fire is the second death and none to follow there are 2 types of death.



Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. NKJV



We know that Jesus' death did not lead to his being cast into the lake of fire. His death was a physical death. This must be the first type of death.



What do we know about each? The first death everyone will go through. Unbelievers as well as believers all will die eventually. That means the righteous and unrighteous will die the first death.




The second death only those not found in the book of life will die. All believer's are found in the lamb's book of life. Can a believer lose their salvation?



Colossians 1:21 1 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. NKJV



Jesus will keep us if we continue in the faith, not moved from the hope of the gospel.



Hebrews 3:6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. NKJV




Once again we are told if we hold on to our hope we will be in Jesus' house. Where does our hope come from?



1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope, NKJV



Jesus is our hope. Why is our hope so important?



Colossians 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, NKJV



It seems our faith and love come from our hope. Jesus gives us this hope so He gives us faith.



Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV



If we lose hope in Jesus we lose faith in Jesus and lose salvation. We are warned to hold on to our hope. Can we lose hope in Jesus?

 

[d taylor]

-
​

A person who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can never lose the Eternal Life gift they received from God when they first believed, even if they fall away from belief.

God/Jesus plainly states He will never cast them out.

 

[sandman]

What do we know about each? The first death everyone will go through. Unbelievers as well as believers all will die eventually. That means the righteous and unrighteous will die the first death.

Not all believers will die....1Th 4:15

It seems our faith and love come from our hope. Jesus gives us this hope so He gives us faith.

The better question is ....what is hope...........There is a very distinct hope that is threaded throughout the epistles.

Love activates…. believing appropriates…. hope anticipates .

 

[disciple Clint]

-
​

A person who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can never lose the Eternal Life gift they received from God when they first believed, even if they fall away from belief.

God/Jesus plainly states He will never cast them out.

are you certain about that? what of Judas? Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved? | GotQuestions.org

 

[d taylor]

are you certain about that? what of Judas? Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved? | GotQuestions.org

It is plainly stated in The Bible Judas never believed.

 

[fli]

-
​

A person who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can never lose the Eternal Life gift they received from God when they first believed, even if they fall away from belief.

God/Jesus plainly states He will never cast them out.

Mr d taylor thank you.



John 6: 37 I know that Jesus said that who ever comes to Him that He would not cast out. John 6: 66 it seems all not drawn by the Father, except Judas, left Him. They left Him. He did not cast them out. He never said that He would hold people against their will. John 10: 29 No one can snatch them out of the Father's hand. To be snatched needs someone out side the father hand to do the snatching. You cannot “snatch” yourself out. However, you are free to leave if you so choose. I cite Hebrews 6 below where some Jewish believers are falling away. God did not cast them out.



Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. NKJV



God wants them to stay. He is not casting them out. He is giving them time to change their mind. God will not force them to stay.



Also in Verse Hebrews 5: 6 they cannot be renewed to repentance.



Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

NKJV



Repentance from sin is not dependent upon man. God grants repentance to those who believe. Once someone falls away God will never grant repentance to them again. If God still saves them, without granting repentance, they would enter heaven with their sins, A sinner would be in heaven.



Mr sandman thank you.



You are right not all will die. I believe that generation of Christians is now with us,



What is hope? This is my hope “ Jesus will make my desire to be with Him in heaven happen.”





Now to new material



My firat example of lost hope is about believers who thought they needed to help Jesus save them.



Galatians 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. NKJV



Some Galations were convinced by Judaizers that they needed to be circumcised to be saved. Paul states to the Galations four ways they lose salvation if they get circumcised. The reason they lose salvation is because their hope is in their circumcision and Jesus.



The next example is about Jews who returned to the old covenant.



Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. NKJV



Verse 4 they had the Holy Spirit so they were born again. They had received manifest gifts meaning their salvation was confirmed.



Those Hebrews put their hope in the old way.

 

[fli]

The second way that a Christian can commit a sin unto death is by loving the world more than what Jesus offers,





2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." NKJV





To escape the pollutions of the world must mean that they were not in them. If they were not in them, they had to be in Jesus. A lot of Christians get entangled in sins, but these were overcome by it. To return to their vomit means that these people were going back to sin. Why were they worse off than before?





Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. NKJV





They were saved and in Christ. We are the bride of Christ. We are not married because the wedding has not taken place.





Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."


NKJV





God had granted (gave) us repentance when we believed in Jesus the first time. God had given us gifts in anticipation of the marriage. In the Israeli culture if an engaged woman breaks the engagement by being with another man, she commits adultery. The punishment for adultery was death. There was no sacrifice for it. When people apostate from Jesus they are in Satan's territory. They have committed adultery with Satan. Falling away from Jesus means we are in sin. God does not give gifts after a person had been given those gifts once and did not value them. He will not grant repentance or salvation again.





These people had lost hope in Jesus because they loved what the the world offered more than what Jesus offered. How can we avoid loving the world more than Jesus?





Matthew 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." NKJV





We read God's word, study God's word and practice God's word. This will do 2 things for us.





2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. NKJV





First- The things of this world lose their attraction to us. Not only will we be changing our heart but God will be changing our heart also. We start to value what God offers more than what the world offers. God will put more trust in us, and we will be able to accomplish greater works.





Matthew 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. NKJV





Second- By obeying the Spirit we are building treasure in Heaven. Our heart will be with our treasure in heaven. The more we lay up treasure in heaven the more we look forward to going there. By our obedience we are showing our love for Jesus.





Timothy 4:8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. NKJV





Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, forp salvation. NKJV





We will eagerly look for the one we love.

 

[fli]

Mr d taylor thank you.



John 6: 37 I know that Jesus said that who ever comes to Him that He would not cast out. John 6: 66 it seems all not drawn by the Father, except Judas, left Him. They left Him. He did not cast them out. He never said that He would hold people against their will. John 10: 29 No one can snatch them out of the Father's hand. To be snatched needs someone out side the father hand to do the snatching. You cannot “snatch” yourself out. However, you are free to leave if you so choose. I cite Hebrews 6 below where some Jewish believers are falling away. God did not cast them out.



Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. NKJV



God wants them to stay. He is not casting them out. He is giving them time to change their mind. God will not force them to stay.



Also in Verse Hebrews 5: 6 they cannot be renewed to repentance.



Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

NKJV



Repentance from sin is not dependent upon man. God grants repentance to those who believe. Once someone falls away God will never grant repentance to them again. If God still saves them, without granting repentance, they would enter heaven with their sins, A sinner would be in heaven.



Mr sandman thank you.



You are right not all will die. I believe that generation of Christians is now with us,



What is hope? This is my hope “ Jesus will make my desire to be with Him in heaven happen.”





Now to new material



My firat example of lost hope is about believers who thought they needed to help Jesus save them.



Galatians 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. NKJV



Some Galations were convinced by Judaizers that they needed to be circumcised to be saved. Paul states to the Galations four ways they lose salvation if they get circumcised. The reason they lose salvation is because their hope is in their circumcision and Jesus.



The next example is about Jews who returned to the old covenant.



Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. NKJV



Verse 4 they had the Holy Spirit so they were born again. They had received manifest gifts meaning their salvation was confirmed.



Those Hebrews put their hope in the old way.

I believe that I should have said more in relation to my comments concerning the Jews in Hebrews, I said that they had been born again that means they had been born of God. I'm sure someone picked up on this.



1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV



How can a person born of God sin? Is the reason he cannot sin because he is born of God? No! He cannot sin because His seed remains in him. His seed means the Spirit of Jesus. A person born of God cannot sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus remains in that person.



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NKJV



We are saved by grace through faith. Without saving faith we no longer have a way to be saved.



Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV



As a child of God Jesus could guarantee our inheritance.



Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. NKJV



Jesus could guarantee our inheritance until we give up our inheritance. We have fallen short of the grace of God. Once a person gives up their inheritance Jesus can no longer guarantee it. With nothing to guarantee He leaves. Without the Spirit of Jesus that person can sin.

 

[Der Alte]

It is plainly stated in The Bible Judas never believed.

Where?

 

[Der Alte]

@fli

Hebrews 10:23-31
(23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
(25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

Vs. 23 If Christians cannot return to an unsaved state, why did the writer of Hebrews warn those who, are saved, "hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering?'
Vs. 26 "if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." If a person has "received the knowledge of the truth" why should they be fearfully "looking for of judgment and fiery indignation?"
Someone might argue that they were not really saved in the first place. The writer contrasts the punishment for this person as worse than the punishment for those who "despised Moses' law" Then describes that person as one who "counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace." Someone who is sanctified by the blood of the covenant is definitely a Christian. And here is the punishment, "Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."

 

[d taylor]

Where?

John 6:64,70
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

John 13:9,10.11
Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”
Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

 

[d taylor]

I believe that I should have said more in relation to my comments concerning the Jews in Hebrews, I said that they had been born again that means they had been born of God. I'm sure someone picked up on this.



1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV



How can a person born of God sin? Is the reason he cannot sin because he is born of God? No! He cannot sin because His seed remains in him. His seed means the Spirit of Jesus. A person born of God cannot sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus remains in that person.



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NKJV



We are saved by grace through faith. Without saving faith we no longer have a way to be saved.



Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV



As a child of God Jesus could guarantee our inheritance.



Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. NKJV



Jesus could guarantee our inheritance until we give up our inheritance. We have fallen short of the grace of God. Once a person gives up their inheritance Jesus can no longer guarantee it. With nothing to guarantee He leaves. Without the Spirit of Jesus that person can sin.

You last comment/statement has no verses stating your belief. By the way inheritance is rewards and not Eternal Life.

 

[fhansen]

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV




In verse 16 the Christian sinning a sin that does not lead to death we are to pray for him. Still in verse 16 as a result of our intercessory prayer God will give him life. If God gives him life as a result of our prayer then the sin not unto death must lead to death. Still in verse 16 there is a sin leading to death which we are not to pray for.



How many types of death are there?



Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. NKJV



Being tossed into the lake of fire is the second death. There are no other deaths after the lake of fire. Since the lake of fire is the second death and none to follow there are 2 types of death.



Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. NKJV



We know that Jesus' death did not lead to his being cast into the lake of fire. His death was a physical death. This must be the first type of death.



What do we know about each? The first death everyone will go through. Unbelievers as well as believers all will die eventually. That means the righteous and unrighteous will die the first death.




The second death only those not found in the book of life will die. All believer's are found in the lamb's book of life. Can a believer lose their salvation?



Colossians 1:21 1 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. NKJV



Jesus will keep us if we continue in the faith, not moved from the hope of the gospel.



Hebrews 3:6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. NKJV




Once again we are told if we hold on to our hope we will be in Jesus' house. Where does our hope come from?



1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope, NKJV



Jesus is our hope. Why is our hope so important?



Colossians 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, NKJV



It seems our faith and love come from our hope. Jesus gives us this hope so He gives us faith.



Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV



If we lose hope in Jesus we lose faith in Jesus and lose salvation. We are warned to hold on to our hope. Can we lose hope in Jesus?

Death is eternity apart from God. Many passages in Scripture tell us that there are sins so serious and grave that they constitue a turning away from God, a destruction of love of God and neighbor.

 

[fli]

You last comment/statement has no verses stating your belief. By the way inheritance is rewards and not Eternal Life.

Mr Der Alte thank you for your reply.





We are in agreement.








Mr d taylor Thank you for your reply.





Jesus could guarantee our inheritance until we give up our inheritance. We have fallen short of the grace of God. Once a person gives up their inheritance Jesus can no longer guarantee it. With nothing to guarantee He leaves. Without the Spirit of Jesus that person can sin.




Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV




Above is the scripture that states the Spirit of Jesus guarantees our inheritance.






Romans 8: But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. NKJV





Above is why I say that the Spirit of Jesus is the Spirit that guarantees our inheritance. If we are not His we have no inheritance, The Spirit of Jesus does not guarantee any rewards. Those are up to us to earn by walking in the Spirit.





1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV





We are talking about Christians losing their salvation. They were born of God. The scripture above states that a born of God person cannot sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus remains in them. Without the Spirit of Jesus a born of God person will be in sin. When we lose hope in Jesus, we lose our saving faith and Jesus no longer abides in us.





I hope these are the scriptures that I did not post to prove what I said.














Mr fhansen Thank you for your reply.





The second death is eternal separation from God. In that I agree with you. Most sins can lead to very serious consequences to people the flesh.

 

[d taylor]

Mr Der Alte thank you for your reply.





We are in agreement.








Mr d taylor Thank you for your reply.





Jesus could guarantee our inheritance until we give up our inheritance. We have fallen short of the grace of God. Once a person gives up their inheritance Jesus can no longer guarantee it. With nothing to guarantee He leaves. Without the Spirit of Jesus that person can sin.




Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV




Above is the scripture that states the Spirit of Jesus guarantees our inheritance.






Romans 8: But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. NKJV





Above is why I say that the Spirit of Jesus is the Spirit that guarantees our inheritance. If we are not His we have no inheritance, The Spirit of Jesus does not guarantee any rewards. Those are up to us to earn by walking in the Spirit.





1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV





We are talking about Christians losing their salvation. They were born of God. The scripture above states that a born of God person cannot sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus remains in them. Without the Spirit of Jesus a born of God person will be in sin. When we lose hope in Jesus, we lose our saving faith and Jesus no longer abides in us.





I hope these are the scriptures that I did not post to prove what I said.














Mr fhansen Thank you for your reply.





The second death is eternal separation from God. In that I agree with you. Most sins can lead to very serious consequences to people the flesh.

Sure would be easy to reply to conversations between me and you if you would not include me into other conversations of other people.

You post 1st John 3:9

That verse is stating the Spirit of Jesus is in a believe and that Spirit of Jesus can not sin. A believe still has their old sin spirit in them and will sin the rest of their physical life on earth. If you think you are not a sinner now, you are badly mistaken.

And there is no verse in The Bible stating a person who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can lose the Eternal Life given by God at the moment of their faith in Jesus. Once a born again child of God they will always be a born again child of God. They have crossed over from death to life.

 

[fli]

Sure would be easy to reply to conversations between me and you if you would not include me into other conversations of other people.

You post 1st John 3:9

That verse is stating the Spirit of Jesus is in a believe and that Spirit of Jesus can not sin. A believe still has their old sin spirit in them and will sin the rest of their physical life on earth. If you think you are not a sinner now, you are badly mistaken.

And there is no verse in The Bible stating a person who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can lose the Eternal Life given by God at the moment of their faith in Jesus. Once a born again child of God they will always be a born again child of God. They have crossed over from death to life.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV


This scripture states that anyone born of God does not sin because His (God's) seed (The Spirit of Jesus) abides in the born of God person. The New spirit born in the man is also in him and cannot sin. .


Everyone born of God, Simon Peter, the Apostle Paul, and the servants of Jesus in


Thyatira below were without sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus was in them.


Revelation 2:18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,


'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. NKJV



Verse 10 Jesus' servants above in verse 20 were without sin.


Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV



Verse 5 Because they believe in Jesus their faith is accounted for righteousness. The servants are acting in an ungodly manner, but God justifies the ungodly.


Verse 6 God imputes righteousness to the servants apart from them having sex with Jezebel.


Verse 7 when the servants believed their sins were forgiven. They are in Jesus, so their present sins are covered.



Verse8 God will not impute any sin to the servants as long as Jesus is in them.



God says that the servants are without sin and have the righteousness of Jesus.

 

[IoanC]

There are two types of death. Physical death, the body dies. And, death of the soul. Separation from God is the second death (or hell) because everything about God is good and separation from Him is evil. Evil cannot have salvation.

Hope is easy and sufficient for salvation if it is sincere. Only a total enemy of God will not have at least a bit of hope.

 

[Lost Witness]

are you certain about that? what of Judas? Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved? | GotQuestions.org

Judas never received the Holy Spirit he killed himself before the LORD Died at Calvary,
also I fell away from Christianity for almost 7yrs,
the LORD called me back to repent just last year. (hallelujah)
It's possible to fall away for sure,
I did it , quit praying, didn't repent.
hadn't I repented before the LORD i'd still be doing what I was,
In fact i'm still struggling quite a bit.
i'd say I'm not out of the woods yet

 

[d taylor]

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV


This scripture states that anyone born of God does not sin because His (God's) seed (The Spirit of Jesus) abides in the born of God person. The New spirit born in the man is also in him and cannot sin. .


Everyone born of God, Simon Peter, the Apostle Paul, and the servants of Jesus in


Thyatira below were without sin as long as the Spirit of Jesus was in them.


Revelation 2:18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,


'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. NKJV



Verse 10 Jesus' servants above in verse 20 were without sin.


Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV



Verse 5 Because they believe in Jesus their faith is accounted for righteousness. The servants are acting in an ungodly manner, but God justifies the ungodly.


Verse 6 God imputes righteousness to the servants apart from them having sex with Jezebel.


Verse 7 when the servants believed their sins were forgiven. They are in Jesus, so their present sins are covered.



Verse8 God will not impute any sin to the servants as long as Jesus is in them.



God says that the servants are without sin and have the righteousness of Jesus.

So basically to you Jesus is constantly going in and out of believers

 

[fli]

So basically to you Jesus is constantly going in and out of believers

No. I am saying that Jesus only leaves those who lose hope in Him. Jesus does not leave every time someone sins. God does not impute those sins to them.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. NKJV

Paul stated that he practiced sin even though he walked in the Spirit. God did not impute one sin to him. I probably practice sin 1000 times more than he did. When a believer loses hope in Jesus He leaves. Once His Spirit goes, He will never reenter an apostate person.