Sin is Transgression of the Law - 1 John 3:4

[BobRyan]

As long as "the Law" isn't limited to the "Decalogue." For example, when Jesus cites the Law for the greatest commandments, he quotes Lev 19 and Deut 6, neither from the 10 commandments

True. The point is that it most certainly included the TEN whatever else it may also include.

 

[BobRyan]

"I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers;" EGW, Early Writings, 32, 33.​

"What is the purpose of the blessing of God? “Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” Acts 3:26.​

Now the Sabbath is designed for that very thing, because the Sabbath is the memorial of the power of God in Christ. And it is the power of God in Christ that saves from sin. So the Sabbath blessing is the blessing of being turned away from our iniquities as we are reminded of the great power of God in Jesus Christ to save from sin. That is to say, the Sabbath blessing is the blessing of sanctification. Can any one truly keep the Sabbath of our Lord Jesus Christ unless he is a converted person?-He cannot. It is only a converted person who can keep the Sabbath;" EGW, CAS 16.17​

​

Bob, in your point of view, in the above article, was EGW referring to attending church on a given day or was she referring to the believers rest in Christ's full redemption?

You have two different references there.

In the first one it is the case of a saved born again Christian with Law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant keeping the exact day of the week that God specified in Ex 20:9-11. the one where "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the gospel to both gentiles and Jews.

In the second case "Now the Sabbath is designed for that very thing, because the Sabbath is the memorial of the power of God in Christ"

More specifically "Now the Sabbath is designed for that very thing, because the Sabbath is the memorial of the power of God in the Son" - John 1 tells us that God the Son created all things that have been created. Heb 1 says God "Created the worlds" through Christ.

God is "LORD and Savior" not just Savior, and not just LORD

In that second case we have "And it is the power of God in Christ that saves from sin". That same creative power that made the world and all life on it -- also makes the "new creation" the new heart, the born-again saint.

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That same author makes it clear that it is not the case that only people who keep the actual 7th day Bible Sabbath - are saved.

 

[Dahveed]

You have two different references there. In the first one it is the case of a saved born again Christian with Law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant keeping the exact day of the week that God specified in Ex 20:9-11. the one where "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the gospel to both gentiles and Jews.
In the second case "Now the Sabbath is designed for that very thing, because the Sabbath is the memorial of the power of God in Christ" More specifically "Now the Sabbath is designed for that very thing, because the Sabbath is the memorial of the power of God in the Son" - John 1 tells us that God the Son created all things that have been created. Heb 1 says God "Created the worlds" through Christ. God is "LORD and Savior" not just Savior, and not just LORD

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:11-12

In that second case we have "And it is the power of God in Christ that saves from sin". That same creative power that made the world and all life on it -- also makes the "new creation" the new heart, the born-again saint.
=======================
That same author makes it clear that it is not the case that only people who keep the actual 7th day Bible Sabbath - are saved.

But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[HIM]

You can choose whatever version suits your palate,

Not according to the Spirit. There is only one truth. And our options are and should be limited to that.

nevertheless Christ came to fulfill the law of the Spirit of life.
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son..

Condemning sin in the flesh is a important part most don't consider enough or forget.

.that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Rom 8:1-4

Amen! Shall we continue in sin that grace abound? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer therein.

Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." Luke 24:26-27 Matt 5:17

So say not in your heart bring the word, His commandments and statutes contained in the book of the law down from above or up from the deep. For the Word, His commandments and statutes contained in the in the Book f the law are nigh to thee. In thy heart and in thy mouth that you can do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

 

[Bob S]

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. Jn15

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
.
Bob, SB and all who would have us still under the commands of the old covenant. The old covenant was only given to one nation, Israel. Jesus came to set Israel free of the ministry of death. Matt5:17-18 and 2Cor3:6-11 and ratified with His own blood the new and better covenant with better promises. He then gave not only Israelites the new covenant, He gave it to all mankind. Not only did He give us the covenant of LOVE, He gave each of us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as our guide.

Gentiles were never under the yoke of the ceremonial laws that Israel was never able to obey. The New Testament has taken away any hint of salvation by works of the Law and made it clear salvation is by faith alone. Good deeds are the result of the Love we have in our hearts and, of course, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit guiding us.

I pray this helps.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 56:6-8 - gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping
Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND to keep Sabbath
Acts 13 - Gentiles specifically ask for more Gospel preaching to be given on "the next Sabbath"

Ex 20:8-11 no ceremony identified with Sabbath
Gen 2:1-3 - no ceremony identified with Sabbath. No any animal sacrifice required by Adam in Gen 2:1-3.

I pray this helps the unbiased objective Bible student.

I number of other groups also admit that the Sabbath is one of the TEN and is part of the moral law of God given to all mankind
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

 

[Dahveed]

Not according to the Spirit. There is only one truth. And our options are and should be limited to that.

Try telling that to the free will adherents who can't come to a resolution.

Condemning sin in the flesh is a important part most don't consider enough or forget.

That's elementary, "cursed is he who trusts in flesh." Jer 17:5

Amen! Shall we continue in sin that grace abound? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer therein.

Try telling that to religious "Galatian" zealots who are on the fence. Gal 3:5

So say not in your heart bring the word, His commandments and statutes contained in the book of the law down from above or up from the deep. For the Word, His commandments and statutes contained in the in the Book f the law are nigh to thee. In thy heart and in thy mouth that you can do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, Eph 1:5-9

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed...for God has given to each of us a measure of faith. Rom 12:2-3

Nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:39

For the life that's been reborn
His love endures forever
From the rise to the setting son
His love endures forever
Sing praise
Forever You are faithful
Forever You are with us

 

[Yekcidmij]

Ex 20:8-11 no ceremony identified with Sabbath
Gen 2:1-3 - no ceremony identified with Sabbath. No any animal sacrifice required by Adam in Gen 2:1-3.

Not quite sure why it matters, but the Law did command sacrifices to be offered on the Sabbath:

Num 28:9 “‘On the Sabbath day, you must offer two unblemished lambs a year old, and two-tenths of an ephah of finely ground flour as a grain offering, mixed with olive oil, along with its drink offering. 28:10 This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the continual burnt offering and its drink offering.​

​

Lev 26:2 ‘You shall keep My sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the LORD.​

​

Also: Neh 10:33​

Note on 26:2 - appears to be a case of Hebrew parallelism were "You shall keep" // "you shall revere" and "My Sabbaths" // "My sanctuary" so sabbath and tabernacle are linked in the passage.

We also know some of the Temple liturgy leading up to Sabbath specific sacrifices and liturgy (m. Tan 4.3, b. Ned 78b) and at least one Psalm used as liturgy on the Sabbath (Psalm 92). It might also be worth speculating that Ps 93 was also a Sabbath Psalm. Based on these, we probably have a good idea of the general liturgial theme leading up to Sabbath. During the week the various days of creation were recited liturgically in the Tabernacle/Temple and Sabbath itself liturgically celebrated/commerated the enthronement of God in his Temple during which there were specific offerings required..

So there absolutely was liturgy, ceremony, ritual and sacrifice associated with the Sabbath. In fact, in at least as early as the 2nd Temple period, there was internal debate over how to prioritize laws since some temple specific laws could be seen as conflicting with sabbath specific laws, so which ones were to be prioritized? The Rabbis would argue that when requirements conflicted, temple laws override sabbath laws, as they were more specici/strict, and they reasoned this by using an exegetical rule (kal va’homer) to derive if from the scriptures (The Sabbath Galilean Incident). The priests had Sabbath specific duties that overrode other more general Sabbath specific requirements in the Law -and more generally, preservation of life overrode all other laws (see also t. Sab 16:13).

In any case, it's not true that there was no ceremony identified or associated with the Sabbath.

 

[Dahveed]

Lev 26:2 ‘You shall keep My sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the LORD.

​

Also: Neh 10:33​

Note on 26:2 - appears to be a case of Hebrew parallelism were "You shall keep" // "you shall revere" and "My Sabbaths" // "My sanctuary" so sabbath and tabernacle are linked in the passage.

Come to his sanctuary, which he has consecrated forever and serve the Lord; 2 Chron 30:8

Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; Psalm 20:6

Sing to the Lord, all the earth; Proclaim the good news of His salvation from day to day. 1 Chron 16:22-23

 

[BobRyan]

Not quite sure why it matters, but the Law did command sacrifices to be offered on the Sabbath:

No doubt after the Gen 2:1-3 event and outside of the Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath commandment and outside of the Ex 16 statement "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" and not in the Is 66:23 statement that for all eternity after the cross ALL mankind comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" - there were also Sabbath services with animal sacrifices. But the 4th commandment does not include the animal sacrifice.

So nothing ceremonial in Gen 2:1-3 when the Sabbath made, set apart, sanctified
nothing ceremonial in the actual Sabbath commandment. no animal sacrifice.

But in the other annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 we do see sacrifices and offerings included in the definition - at the time those annual events were identified , created, made.

Adding animal sacrifices at Sinai did not delete the Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath sanctified at creation.
We see in Acts 13, Acts 17 and Acts 18 - that they even had "every Sabbath" services without a single animal sacrifice made during the service because keeping the Sabbath did not require them to do it.

 

[Yekcidmij]

No doubt after the Gen 2:1-3 event and outside of the Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath commandment and outside of the Ex 16 statement "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" and not in the Is 66:23 statement that for all eternity after the cross ALL mankind comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" - there were also Sabbath services with animal sacrifices. But the 4th commandment does not include the animal sacrifice.

So nothing ceremonial in Gen 2:1-3 when the Sabbath made, set apart, sanctified
nothing ceremonial in the actual Sabbath commandment. no animal sacrifice.

But in the other annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 we do see sacrifices and offerings included in the definition - at the time those annual events were identified , created, made.

Adding animal sacrifices at Sinai did not delete the Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath sanctified at creation.
We see in Acts 13, Acts 17 and Acts 18 - that they even had "every Sabbath" services without a single animal sacrifice made during the service because keeping the Sabbath did not require them to do it.

I have two disjointed thoughts.

(1) Is 66 implies that temple worship is involved. In 66:20, Israelites are going to the temple. In 66:20, Gentiles are going to Jerusalem. The contextual understanding of 66:23 and people "coming to worship" Yahweh is that they are going to the Temple in Jerusalem.

(2) I think the creation account in Gen 1 is liturgical in nature. The 7th day specifically is God's enthronment in his creation just as the Sabbath was also commemorated as God's enthronment in his temple. I have more that can be said about this, but Gen 1 presents creation as a sort of cosmic Temple for God who becomes enthroned in his cosmic temple on the 7th day. This corresponds to Sabbath worship in the Temple where God's enthronement in his Temple is commemorated. There is a direct correlation between Temple and Cosmos. So I disagree that Gen 1 is to be seperated from Temple symbolism and Temple liturgy, just as my previous references indicated as well.

 

[BobRyan]

I have two disjointed thoughts.

(1) Is 66 implies that temple worship is involved.

Rev 21 says there is no temple in the New Earth
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind" come before Me to worship

In Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 they are not - in the Temple "every Sabbath" but still they gather for worship every Sabbath for gospel preachig to both gentiles and Jews.

(2) I think the creation account in Gen 1 is liturgical in nature. The 7th day specifically is God's enthronment in his creation just as the Sabbath was also commemorated as God's enthronment in his temple.

There is no liturgy there and on Sabbath we do not say any of the words of God in any one of the 7 days of creation week. There is no liturgy specified in Gen 1-2.

I have more that can be said about this, but Gen 1 presents creation as a sort of cosmic Temple for God who becomes enthroned in his cosmic temple on the 7th day.

God was enthroned before the first day - He was already sovereign God. On day 4 the number of lights is two... not a zillion and two. The heavens of stars, galaxies etc was already there before He made the two lights on day 4.

 

[Dahveed]

Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind" come before Me to worship

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 2 Cor 5:17

 

[Studyman]

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 2 Cor 5:17

Yes, if a man is truly in the Christ of the Bible, the OLD, " who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience is gone, because the "Truly Repentant" "yields themselves" servants to OBEY God, having "PUT ON" the New man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. And having been freed for the bondage of sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Therefore (Because of this truth) if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[BobRyan]

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 2 Cor 5:17

true.

And the New Covenant writes the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - on the heart Jer 31:31-34

 

[Dahveed]

true.

And the New Covenant writes the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - on the heart Jer 31:31-34

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Col 3:15
And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey/believe; appointed by God as High Priest. Heb 5:9-10
Since we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, Heb 12:28

 

[Yekcidmij]

Rev 21 says there is no temple in the New Earth
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind" come before Me to worship

In Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 they are not - in the Temple "every Sabbath" but still they gather for worship every Sabbath for gospel preachig to both gentiles and Jews.

It's hard to get away from the contextual points I made in my post. In Isaiah 66 itself, everyone is going to the temple and to Jerusalem to worship. I wouldn't divorce 66:23 from 66:20.

There is no liturgy there and on Sabbath we do not say any of the words of God in any one of the 7 days of creation week. There is no liturgy specified in Gen 1-2.

God was enthroned before the first day - He was already sovereign God. On day 4 the number of lights is two... not a zillion and two. The heavens of stars, galaxies etc was already there before He made the two lights on day 4.

I think there is plently of reason to think that Gen 1 is liturgical. For one we have direct evidence that it was as I posted in a previous reference. I also have some other sources that are interesting as they encompass both Jewish and Christian commentators, which is an unusual confluence of intterpretation. Gordan Wenham, Moshe Weinfeld, and Jon Levenson come to mind quickly, but there are others as well.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

Rev 21 says there is no temple in the New Earth
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind" come before Me to worship

In Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 they are not - in the Temple "every Sabbath" but still they gather for worship every Sabbath for gospel preachig to both gentiles and Jews.

It's hard to get away from the contextual points I made in my post. In Isaiah 66 itself, everyone is going to the temple and to Jerusalem to worship. I wouldn't divorce 66:23 from 66:20.

Is 66 is written at a time before the cross - there was indeed a temple at that time.

Is 66:23 points to the future - where there is a new heavens and new Earth - where as Rev 21 states - there is no temple.

At the time of the writing of Is 66 there are two futures for Israel - one where they accept the Messiah and one where they do not. Some of the text speaks of a future time along the path were they do not reject the Messiah.

But Is 66:23 reference a time even future to that point - a time beyond all reference to the present heavens and Earth - and in the New Earth all mankind keeps the Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath" coming before God to worship according to that verse - regardless of which path the Jewish nation would choose regarding Christ.

I think there is plently of reason to think that Gen 1 is liturgical. For one we have direct evidence that it was as I posted in a previous reference.

The Law of God points to Gen 1-2 as literal in its Ex 20:11 statement quoting Gen 2:1-3.

 

[Dahveed]

Yes, if a man is truly in the Christ of the Bible, the OLD, " who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience is gone, because the "Truly Repentant" "yields themselves" servants to OBEY God, having "PUT ON" the New man, which after Godis created in righteousness and true holiness. And having been freed for the bondage of sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Therefore (Because of this truth) if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Not to burst your bubble but "this is not of yourselves," you were created in Christ Jesus by grace through faith, where Christ is all and in all.

And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey/believe; appointed by God as High Priest. Heb 5:9-10 [who has come according to the power of an endless life. Heb 7:16]
Since we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, Heb 12:28

You came from heaven to earth
From the earth to the cross,
From the cross to the grave,
from the grave to the sky
Lord I lift Your name on high
I'm so glad You came to save us

The Son of Man must be lifted up; John 12:34

 

[Studyman]

Not to burst your bubble but "this is not of yourselves," you were created in Christ Jesus by grace through faith, where Christ is all and in all.

Of course not. Can I create my own Laws, my own Sabbaths, my own high days? These are the works of the prince of this world, not the Body of the Christ "of the Bible".

As it is written "For we (Servants of God's Righteousness) are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (Not religious men) hath before ordained that we (Servants of God's Righteousness) should walk in them.

You came from heaven to earth
From the earth to the cross,
From the cross to the grave,
from the grave to the sky
Lord I lift Your name on high
I'm so glad You came to save us

The Son of Man must be lifted up; John 12:34

Luke 13: 3 I (The Christ of the Bible) tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

It Seems the Christ of the Bible is serious about "Go and Sin no more". Perhaps we too, should take His Word seriously.