Sin is Transgression of the Law - 1 John 3:4

[Dahveed]

Indeed "all have sinned" Rom 3:23
But as Romans 6 says - for the born-again, new-creation, new-covenant Christian "Sin shall NOT be master over you.. " and there we also find "do you not know that the one whom you obey is your master"

For once you were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10
To each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift; Eph 4:7-8
Through Christ we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations; Rom 1:5

 

[HIM]

I asked you if you commit sin or whether you are sinless, for it must be one or the other. Whether you correctly understand the bible is neither here or there. I just asked you concerning your own personal life. I understand your reticence to answer the question

Sad. It has gone from thus saith the Lord our God to what others or ourselves are doing.

You were asked what does Romans 6 state. It says shall we continue in sin that grace abound, No, in no way! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein.

 

[BobRyan]

I asked you if you commit sin or whether you are sinless

They are two different things.

"Did you ever lie" is not the same question as "are you lying to me right now?"

I think we can all see the difference.

Since you refrain from quoting the text ....

Rom 6:

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.​

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12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.​

​

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?​

 

[freeinhim3]

They are two different things.

"Did you ever lie" is not the same question as "are you lying to me right now?"

I think we can all see the difference.

Since you refrain from quoting the text ....

Rom 6:

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.​

​

12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.​

​

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?​

The most flagrant sinning against the ten commandments I ever witnessed was in a church that worshipped on a saturday. They could quote your scriptures too, but it didnt do them any good

 

[Dahveed]

No -- only saved people of OT and NT are under it. Everyone else is under the obey-and-live OC of Gal 3 -just as Paul says in Rom 3:19-20

Who is like you—majestic in holiness; Exodus 15:11 Exodus 15:13

And who is like your people Israel—the one nation on earth that God went out to redeem as a people for himself; 1 Chron 17:21
Because the Lord was pleased to make you his own people. 1 Samuel 12:21-22
They will be called the Redeemed of the Lord; Isaiah 62:12 children of the living God. Hosea 1:10

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory; Isaiah 45:25
Trust in the Lord; with Him is full redemption. Psalm 130:7

 

[HIM]

The most flagrant sinning against the ten commandments I ever witnessed was in a church that worshipped on a saturday. They could quote your scriptures too, but it didnt do them any good

Once again you answer with a Thus saith what you think and feel and not Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Since you refrain from quoting the text ....

Rom 6:

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.​

​

12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.​

​

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?​

The most flagrant sinning against the ten commandments I ever witnessed was in a church

Sorry to hear that... but Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

 

[freeinhim3]

Sorry to hear that... but Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

The only problem you and your denomination have is, you cannot live up to the literal letter you constantly and inflexibly quote. I mean, your not sinless are you? So you have not completely died to sin. It would be better if you could understand the message contained in the letter, taking the bible as one cohesive whole, you would be much wiser then

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

Sorry to hear that... but Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

The only problem you and your denomination have is, you cannot live up to the literal letter

Again avoiding the text as you argue with the text.

Paul says in Rom 8:4-9 that it is only the unsaved that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

Paul says in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

you constantly and inflexibly quote

I quote scripture -- all you have done so far is accuse.

Everyone has free will - you can do as you wish. I prefer sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine

 

[freeinhim3]

BobRyan said:

Sorry to hear that... but Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

Again avoiding the text as you argue with the text.

Paul says in Rom 8:4-9 that it is only the unsaved that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

Paul says in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



I quote scripture -- all you have done so far is accuse.

Everyone has free will - you can do as you wish. I prefer sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine

Are you sinless? You're quoting the text. Have you died to sin? Are you sinless?

 

[freeinhim3]

BobRyan said:

Sorry to hear that... but Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

Again avoiding the text as you argue with the text.

Paul says in Rom 8:4-9 that it is only the unsaved that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

Paul says in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



I quote scripture -- all you have done so far is accuse.

Everyone has free will - you can do as you wish. I prefer sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine

People like you Bob, lay the emphasis on the ten commandments, but you don't understand what that law demands. Why don't you stress Christ's commands as much as you do the Ten Commandments? Are they not as important? Are they not part of God's laws? Could be because you know you cannot kid yourself you fully obey them, nor do you even try to obey many. It is that law that matters most for the believer.

 

[freeinhim3]

There's a large group of people who randomly quote the letter, make pat statements, but their life is not reflected in those pat statements. So, either they are reading the bible incorrectly, or, they are being hypocritical

 

[freeinhim3]

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us 1John1:8

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 1John3:9

If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless to be saved, they will reply ''No'' for they know they are not sinless(1John1:8)
However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could be saved and live a blatantly sinfull lifestyle, they would also respond ''No'' (1John3:9)

Therefore, you die to sin in regard to ceasing being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, where sin utterly dominates your life, and, you become slave of righteousness which leads to holiness(Rom6:17-19). If you are being led into holiness, you are not sin free, otherwise you would already be fully holy.

I'm afraid just quoting the letter randomly can mislead. Sadly, that is all many can do on these kinds of websites'

 

[Dahveed]

If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless to be saved, they will reply ''No'' for they know they are not sinless(1John1:8)
However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could be saved and live a blatantly sinfull lifestyle, they would also respond ''No'' (1John3:9)

Therefore, you die to sin in regard to ceasing being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, where sin utterly dominates your life, and, you become slave of righteousness which leads to holiness(Rom6:17-19). If you are being led into holiness, you are not sin free, otherwise you would already be fully holy.

I'm afraid just quoting the letter randomly can mislead. Sadly, that is all many can do on these kinds of websites'

If they were sinless, what would be the purpose of Christ's sacrifice?

And He sets aside the first to establish the second; [By a new and living way; Hebrews 10:19-22] And in accordance with this will [of God] we [who believe in the message of salvation] have been sanctified [that is, set apart as holy for God and His purposes] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) once for all. Heb 10:9-10

When this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God; Heb 10:12-13

There's a large group of people who randomly quote the letter, make pat statements, but their life is not reflected in those pat statements. So, either they are reading the bible incorrectly, or, they are being hypocritical

God desires that all people be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed [Rom 5:5-6] at the right time. 1 Tim 2:4-6 God bearing witness by [granting to believers the] gift of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. Heb 2:4

 

[HIM]

The most flagrant sinning against the ten commandments I ever witnessed was in a church that worshipped on a saturday. They could quote your scriptures too, but it didnt do them any good

No you didn't.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 6 is true - anyway. I think we can all see that point.

Paul says in Rom 8:4-9 that it is only the unsaved that "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"
Paul says in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Where as Paul said "The first commandment with a promise is 'Honor your father and mother'" Eph 6:2 in that still-binding unit of TEN

The mere quote of these New Testament text is sufficient cause to get some people to go after anyone who dares to post them

People like you Bob, lay the emphasis on the ten commandments,

Sadly for your post - I did not author those texts. God did. Your argument is "with the text" again.

Why don't you stress Christ's commands as much as you do the Ten Commandments?

I read the Bible and the Bible says in Heb 8:6-12 that it is JESUS speaking in Ex 20 - speaking HIS commandments.

You are holding the Bible at such a distance from your posts - that you keep walking right into that over and over.

You are inventing some sort of war between God's Commandments and Jesus Commands such that Paul "needed" to have said in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING JESUS' commands" instead of "the Commandments of God'

Jesus flat out rejects the idea that His commandments are not God's commandments in John 14.

 

[BobRyan]

There's a large group of people who randomly quote the letter, make pat statements, but their life is not reflected in those pat statements. So, either they are reading the bible incorrectly, or, they are being hypocritical

Your entire argument is based solely on falsely accusing others.

Consider sola-scriptura instead.

 

[Bob S]

Once again you answer with a Thus saith what you think and feel and not Scripture.

Because Freeman knows scripture, he is able to know a group by their fruits. We are told by the group he is referring that we have to keep the Sabbath or lose our eternal inheritance. One look at Isaiah 58:13 and we are able to determine if the group is doing what they are telling us we have to do. I realize that you are not interested in what others think, but many are.

 

[HIM]

Because Freeman knows scripture, he is able to know a group by their fruits.... One look at Isaiah 58:13 and we are able to determine if the group is doing what they are telling us we have to do.

That is subjective conjecture.

 

[DamianWarS]

1 John 3:4 states "sin IS transgression of the LAW" KJV and we have over a dozen other translations that agree with KJV on that.

That includes EXB (Expanded Bible) stating that this is the same as (or included in) the more general statement "sin is lawlessness".

1 Cor 9:20-21b "To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law)"

Paul makes a contrast of "those under the law" and "those not having the law" yet through this he is still able to say we are still called under God's law which is qualified by Christ's law.

we can extrapolate the following unique groups:

1. those under the law
2. those not having the law
3. those under Christ's law

each is different. 1 & 2 contrast each other and are meant to be the inverse of the other where 3 is a parenthetical to show we still are called under Christ. Our mission is 1 and 2, we are 3. The context of "under the law" is that of the Jews. That law would be the mosaic law which includes the 10 commandments. We are not under this law. Those not having the law would be Gentiles and essentially these comments are contrasting Jews and Gentiles. Paul groups them the same and calls us to be slaves to whatever our mission is, be under the law or not having law . "so that by all possible means I might save some" (v22). his goal is reaching people for Christ not keeping the law according to v20.

it is still clear we are not lawless but when he speaks of law, his context is about others under it or not having, not about those under Christ. He has to make a parenthetical note that we are still under Christ but other than that, when he speaks law, he speaks it as a foreign law, not a universal law. Paul uses law ambiguously and we can't get the context turned around but he does not conflict his own teaching. broadly speaking when he speaks of law, he speaks of that which the Jews are under unless he clarifies. When he speaks of Christ's law, he speaks of the 2 greatest commandments Jesus speaks of in Matthew 22:37. The law of Christ is not inclusive of the mosaic law or the law the Jews are under if they were this creates a lot of circular logic.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

Paul is making the same point in each of these passages. Paul identifies Circumcision as nothing then uses that to contrast what really counts. These passages are a mirror of each other so whatever one means, they all mean it.

Circumcision/uncircumcision
-is nothing
-has any value
-means anything

what counts...
-keeping God’s commands
-is faith expressing itself through love
-is the new creation

this shows Paul's intended meaning when he said "Keeping God’s commands is what counts" in 1 Cor 7:19 and that message is consistent with Christ's law of love which is a product of the new creation. We can't just look at a word like "commandments" and superimpose any commandment in there. What it means needs to be consistent with Paul's overall message using more critical analysis. In this case, it's a close book, since we have Paul bringing up the point in other letters so all the others inherit this message, this includes Romans and Colossians when it speaks of the value of circumcision because we know what's circulating in Paul's head he just approaches the topic in a different perspective. However, if Paul intended 7:19 to mean the 10 commandments and dietary laws this is in conflict with his other points.