Significance of 40 Days

[Avid]

Concerning the 40 days of Jesus' fasting, an interesting aspect comes to mind. Jesus died on the cross, therefore he was, during his time on earth, mortal. No human can possibly withhold food and water for that period of time and still be alive. So the question is, how does he survive that but not crucifixion?

Sorry to say, but I am not sure your point is true. I remember someone going on a hunger strike many years ago, and lasting 39 days. Not remembering exactly that he died, or that he was force fed, or gave up the fast.

Is there anything of a study or observable record on the basic claim?

Revision:
I notice you included withholding water as well. That may mean lasting less than two weeks. I do not see any scripture having said that Jesus did not drink water, but only that He did not eat food.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Christianity just doesn't make sense!

Your version is the product of selective reading, if that at all.

 

[RickG]

Sorry to say, but I am not sure your point is true. I remember someone going on a hunger strike many years ago, and lasting 39 days. Not remembering exactly that he died, or that he was force fed, or gave up the fast.

Is there anything of a study or observable record on the basic claim?

Revision:
I notice you included withholding water as well. That may mean lasting less than two weeks. I do not see any scripture having said that Jesus did not drink water, but only that He did not eat food.

It said he fasted. Is that withholding both food and water. Furthermore, no one not eating for 39 days would be able to walk out of the wilderness under their own power. I still maintain that the context of 40 means nothing more than a long period of unfixed time, whether hours, days, or whatever.

Now serving #40.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I guess there are things we should not expect, but there are truths that can be conveyed. If these do spark an interest, there is understanding to be gained.

Hebrews 2
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

I Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
​

The LORD Jesus Christ was here as "all human," as well as being "all God." He set aside some of the things mentioned above, and that means He took on limitations not previously upon Him. This way, any accusation that He does not understand what it is like for us are not valid. He has experienced the difficulties, but was not prone to, nor was He given to sin. His Father was God, so He did not have the fallen human nature we are born with.

If we can conceive of what learning obedience through what he suffered and emptied himself meant. Plus the desperate cry, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me" or being made sin meant for Jesus, then we might be ready to talk about what it was like to be more fully human than any earlier version of Adam.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Don't know if this has been covered in this thread, but one of the reasons fasting is associated with religious experience is that it triggers altered states of consciousness, which is hardly surprising I suppose since the brain's fuel supply is being interrupted. In olden days any altered state of consciousness would likely have been regarded as a religious experience or as getting closer to god or some such similar misinterpretation. 40 days was probably the length of time it took to have a really good "religious experience".

 

[RickG]

If we can conceived of what learning obedience through what he suffered and emptied himself meant. Plus the desperate cry, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me" or being made sin meant for Jesus, then we might be ready to talk about what it was like to be more fully human than any earlier version of Adam.

Or, this is my beloved son with in whom I am well pleased...
Or, and sat on the right hand of God...
Or, my father which is in heaven ...

etc., etc., etc.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

It said he fasted. Is that withholding both food and water. Furthermore, no one not eating for 39 days would be able to walk out of the wilderness under their own power. I still maintain that the context of 40 means nothing more than a long period of unfixed time, whether hours, days, or whatever.

Now serving #40.

Well he wasn't in the desert, plus the account reveals that after ( regardless of time period ) his time of testing ( for God does not tempt, nor can be ) he was hungry (for water?) and that is when (at his most vulnerable) the tempter sets to work on him. (and he serves him notice!)

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Don't know if this has been covered in this thread, but one of the reasons fasting is associated with religious experience is that it triggers altered states of consciousness, which is hardly surprising I suppose since the brain's fuel supply is being interrupted. In olden days any altered state of consciousness would likely have been regarded as a religious experience or as getting closer to god or some such similar misinterpretation. 40 days was probably the length of time it took to have a really good "religious experience".

Interesting point.

Jesus certainly didn't do it on magic mushrooms, or LSD.
However, his religion had plenty of that without the need for either.
Fasting for sensational reasons, to gratify the esoteric itch.
It's almost a mirror of Eden, where instead of a happy supernatural buzz facilitated by the Lord of the flies, he opts for using it to focus his energies on pushing those things away him. Sort of a Buddha move.

Very trippy, Mr Strawberry, but no bite of the poisonous fruit of Eden for Jesus!

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Or, this is my beloved son with in whom I am well pleased...
Or, and sat on the right hand of God...
Or, my father which is in heaven ...

etc., etc., etc.

a. To fulfil all righteousness - obedience.
b. Sure, but only after he was raised.
c. Sure. A lesson in prayer. To think he needed to.

 

[AV1611VET]

Concerning the 40 days of Jesus' fasting, an interesting aspect comes to mind. Jesus died on the cross, therefore he was, during his time on earth, mortal. No human can possibly withhold food and water for that period of time and still be alive. So the question is, how does he survive that but not crucifixion?

Jesus laid down His own life at the Cross.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[AV1611VET]

Furthermore, no one not eating for 39 days would be able to walk out of the wilderness under their own power.

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

Moses, Elijah, and our blessed Lord could fast forty days and forty nights, because they were in communion with God, and living a heavenly life.

There are other instances of persons fasting forty days, recorded in the Scriptures. Thus Moses fasted forty days, Ex 34:28. Elijah also fasted the same length of time, 1Ki 19:8. In these cases, they were no doubt miraculously supported.

A supernatural power of endurance was of course imparted to the body,

Whereby doubtless he received more abundant spiritual strength from God.

Throughout the long fast he was miraculously sustained;

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I guess Jesus knew the Scriptures, were good for food.

 

[Avid]

It said he fasted. Is that withholding both food and water...

Fasting does not necessarily include the withholding of water. When it is, that is usually stated in scripture, as with Saul of Tarsus during the days of blindness in Damascus.

Acts 9
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
​

It has been well known that a fast will be soon met with feelings of hunger. These get to be very intense in the first few days. After that, the body properly adapts. When a hunger comes on some days later in a fast, that is what we may call starvation pains.

This was laid out in Christian instruction that I saw in the late Seventies. About 15 years later, Robert C. Atkins, MD, showed this principle when publishing his Carb-free diet. He pointed out that the transfer of getting calories from food to getting them from stored body fat can be accelerated by his recommended practice.

When the scripture says Jesus was afterward an hungered, it specifically means He began to feel starvation pains. Again, it would be good to have some observable record, or study on the issue of what time any person may endure without food.

 

[Avid]

Furthermore, no one not eating for 39 days would be able to walk out of the wilderness under their own power...

Jesus was not going to die before the appointed time, nor was He going to fail in any purpose He had from God the Father. What may or may not satisfy the thoughts of man are less important than the purpose and provision for fulfilling God's perfect will.

As far as what anyone may be capable of doing, it is important to note there is physical strength that comes from God, and there is special provision made by God that goes to providing strength in unusual circumstances.

I Kings 19
8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.
​

As far as Jesus being able to survive, walk out of the wilderness etc., (maybe the woods, but not likely a desert,) it is as it was with Elijah when fleeing Jezebel. God sent angels, just as Satan had referenced. This same thing happened in the Garden of Gethsemane, in order for Jesus to endure till all was finished. He certainly did not remain any longer than necessary, but DEFINITELY was given strength to endure to the performance of what was needed, and prescribed by God.

Matthew 4
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Luke 4
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Mark 1
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
​

In the garden, at the arrest of Jesus, He stated that he could call 12 Legions of angels for defense. God certainly made all necessary provision for Jesus the Son of God, and Son of Man, to fulfill His purpose while here.

Luke 22
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
​

Further, it is important to note that Jesus Christ was not killed on the cross. He lay down His life freely, and gave up living His physical life when He had finished His purpose.

John 10
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 19
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

John 20
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
​

These are not simply thoughts, nor is it conjecture to take God at His word. It is a sure foundation, and any of us is doing well to believe the record of God on the subject.

 

[Papias]

Originally Posted by Albert Barne's NT Commentary

There are other instances of persons fasting forty days, recorded in the Scriptures. Thus Moses fasted forty days, Ex 34:28. Elijah also fasted the same length of time, 1Ki 19:8. In these cases, they were no doubt miraculously supported.

Which makes the whole idea of fasting fail to make sense anymore.

The supernatural (=unnatural) support must have had the equivalent of at least a few calories a day + grams of water to keep them alive. So how many? 100 calories a day & 2 grams water? I don't think that would keep someone alive. So it must have been more.

Plus, if were divine and not diabolic supernatural support, then would not that water have been sweet - sweeter than a McDonald's shake? Or is God less than McDonald's?

The same goes for the calories - wouldn't they be better than a Big Mac? Or is God less than McDonald's?

So if these fasting guys had nourishment better than being super-sized three times a day, how could that have been a hard and trying trial? 40 days of divine ambrosia and divine shamrock shakes starts to sound like Heaven on earth, not a fast.

Or, if the whole point was to make them uncomfortable, then the nourishment would have divinely caused discomfort. Then again, since this is discomfort caused by God, would it not have been much worse than "normal" discomfort? And if so, would it have been as bad as torture in Hell?

If so, then why not just toss them in Hell for 40 days? Or make 4 seconds in Hell be perceived as 40 days, and save everyone some time?

All the same thoughts go for being "given strength". What did "divine strength" feel like? Was it better than I feel right now? Etc.

As soon as the supernatural nourishment comes in, all rational discussion of the story flies out the window.

Just a thought. Make of it what you will.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[Avid]

Not sure if this helps, but these mention 39 days of fasting:
Chile to review anti-terrorism law after marathon hunger strike

http://www.santiagotimes.cl/ chile-review-anti-terrorism-law-marathon-hunger-strike/

Also,
70 Palestinian hunger strikers sent to Israeli hospitals

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/ news/ middle-east/ 11820-70-palestinian-hunger-strikers-sent-to-israeli-hospitals

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Jesus laid down His own life at the Cross.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

It was only temporary though. More of a gesture really. For what purpose this would be done other than ego gratification, who can say?

 

[AV1611VET]

Or, if the whole point was to make them uncomfortable, then the nourishment would have divinely caused discomfort. Then again, since this is discomfort caused by God, would it not have been much worse than "normal" discomfort? And if so, would it have been as bad as torture in Hell?

If so, then why not just toss them in Hell for 40 days? Or make 4 seconds in Hell be perceived as 40 days, and save everyone some time?

Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Had God done it your way, Jesus would have been [hellishly] hungry all 40 days.

None of my business, but are you a scientist?

 

[Avid]

If we can conceive of what learning obedience through what he suffered and emptied himself meant. Plus the desperate cry, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me" or being made sin meant for Jesus, then we might be ready to talk about what it was like to be more fully human than any earlier version of Adam.

Not exactly sure what the point you are making is. These are precious scriptures, and the concepts are marvelous to the regenerated person. I am hoping to better understand the purpose of them being presented this way.

Thanks.

 

[Papias]

Avid - as has been pointed out already, those hunger strikers are still consuming liquids, which means they can last much longer than 40 days - whereas the scripture is clear in a number of places that the fasts included no food nor water.