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it is easily seen that it is not the same angle.Maybe we should figure out which planet we are actually living on before we start pushing our views of who created it.
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The angle is irrelevant. These are composite images.it is easily seen that it is not the same angle.
2012 Has Mexico in the center. 2015 has Africa in the center.
That will naturally change perspective and apparent size of continents.
I don't ignore the Author (singular) of all Scripture.It's not wise to ignore the inspired authors of the Bible, either.
No, the Bible was not co-authored by the Apostles and the Prophets. ROTFL They brought nothing to the table here. That is like saying that the car coauthored the owner's manual. That is exactly what the Bible is: the owner's manual for life authored by the Creator of life.Really the Bible should be viewed more as being co-authored by the prophets. Rather than solely by God. It's not like the Bible just fell out of the sky. The Hebrew or Greek cultures of the prophets/apostles are present within the text, and no honest Christian can ignore this.
ROTFL, you think so little of God that you don't think He can author text in terms that the immediate audience will understand, and that will be clearly understood by later, more "knowledgeable" people groups, even though it is written in what they would call "bad science"?@Doug Brents do you have any comment on this, at least?
Here we have reference to the intestines or entrails. But the point is that, God isn't trying to teach us something about our digestive system. Rather it's just an ancient Israelite cultural reference. Because that's who has authored the Bible. Ancient Israelites.
If God were the sole author of scripture, without the Bible having any influence from ancient Israelite culture at all, then we wouldn't have verses like these in the old testament.
And so people shouldn't be surprised to find other ancient Israelite references in the Bible either. Such as, ancient Israelite cosmology.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.ROTFL, you think so little of God that you don't think He can author text in terms that the immediate audience will understand, and that will be clearly understood by later, more "knowledgeable" people groups, even though it is written in what they would call "bad science"?
Let us know when you are ready to be rational.The angle is irrelevant. These are composite images.
Do we have a real photo of the entire Planet Earth? Is NASA concerned of its shape?
This is not a topic I'm particularly interested in, yet it is still very strange, and telling. I think everything is tied in together. There could be some common denominator connecting all the bizarre events, and objects mentioned on this website with our space exploration controversy. At some...www.stolenhistory.org
You are crediting the ancient Israelites with similar cosmology as their neighbors, but their cosmology was completely different than any of the surrounding nations. They believed in a single God, who was not associated with any of the planets or stars (as were the Greek and Roman gods), or with the seasons, weather, or physical objects (as many of the even more ancient culture's deities were), but He had made all of those things out of nothing. They believed that the planets and stars were hung by God, not that they were gods.I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
In ancient Israelite culture, the intestines and kidneys were referred to as the seat of ones emotions.
We see this throughout the old testament.
So I'm curious, as someone who views scripture as essentially falling out of the sky as God's word, what do you do with this? Is God trying to teach us something about our digestive system?
Or do you think it's reasonable for God to accommodate the ancient audience by allowing their cultural perspectives to be captured in the text? In which case, on what bases would this include something like physiology and anatomy, yet exclude cosmology?
Both anatomy and cosmology shows that God’s revelation often uses accessible language and imagery to communicate eternal truths. The Bible’s purpose isn’t to teach cosmology or anatomy but to convey theological meaning within the cultural and intellectual framework of its time.
Both kidneys and cosmology serve as culturally embedded, metaphorical tools to communicate theological truths. Both reflect a divine accommodation to human understanding, using the familiar to communicate the profound.
So if you want to go the route of accepting ancient Israelite anatomy, by denying ancient Israelite cosmology, why?
That is actually South America at the center in 2015, but your point is correct. size changes because perspective changes because the center of the image is different.it is easily seen that it is not the same angle.
2012 Has Mexico in the center. 2015 has Africa in the center.
That will naturally change perspective and apparent size of continents.
I sent you a link with multiple images. A video of a NASA employee admitting that they have no actual photos of the entire earth from space. He would know, as he is the computer geek who assembled the composites.Let us know when you are ready to be rational.
Right.That is actually South America at the center in 2015, but your point is correct. size changes because perspective changes because the center of the image is different.
Your post at #276 have different centers so that does change the apparent size of the land.I sent you a link with multiple images. A video of a NASA employee admitting that they have no actual photos of the entire earth from space. He would know, as he is the computer geek who assembled the composites.
Don't even go there with your condescending "let's be rational nonsense."
Your mind is already made up, there is no amount of evidence that will ever convince you.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Sad.
You are crediting the ancient Israelites with similar cosmology as their neighbors, but their cosmology was completely different than any of the surrounding nations. They believed in a single God, who was not associated with any of the planets or stars (as were the Greek and Roman gods), or with the seasons, weather, or physical objects (as many of the even more ancient culture's deities were), but He had made all of those things out of nothing. They believed that the planets and stars were hung by God, not that they were gods.
Anyone could say the same thing about ancient Israelite cosmology that describes the sun as "rising".They may have had similar biological understanding as their neighbors (you feel shifting in your gut when you have certain emotions, so they portrayed those emotions as being associated with the gut), but that symbology is still prevalent in our language, especially poetry, even today. That doesn't mean that we believe that emotions are housed there. So it is entirely probable that even they did not believe that the emotions were housed in the gut, just that that imagery was common in their language.
Huh? Let's stay on track here. No need to strawman me with rhetoric.You want to start Creation in Gen 1:3, and discount the creation that is stated to have begun in Gen 1:1.
So, why can God allow for ancient Israelite culture and context in the Bible when it comes to anatomy, such as in references of kidneys and intestines, but God can't do the same for Israelite cosmology?And now you are trying to use figurative language associated with the gut to explain away what you don't like about the Creation story. It won't work. God made everything from nothing, and He did it in just 6 physical days of evening to morning. There is no other way of looking at what God told us in the first two chapters of Genesis. Look over at the restating of the Creation in Gen 2:4. "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
He didn't start with an already existing canvas. He started with nothing and made the heavens and Earth in a single day, then proceeded over the next few days to form and populate the Earth.
There is debate as to whether Job came before the Flood or after it. If it came before the Flood, then we have absolutely no way of knowing what the sky was like before God released the water that was above the Earth. It may very well have been like a metal mirror. But if he came after the Flood, then it is, as some Scripture is, figurative language that again does not necessarily indicate the cosmology of the writer.Of course the Israelites followed God and not pagan deities. But we are speaking more in terms with the structure of the cosmos. For example, the solid dome sky:
Job 37:18 ESV
[18] Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?
Again, the sky does appear as a vaulted dome over the Earth from any place on the Earth that one stands. This does not indicate any extraordinary cosmology.Amos 9:6 NASB1995
[6] The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Job 22:14 NRSV
[14] Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
No strawman. You said yourself that God did not create the heavens and the earth; that He started with a preexisting earth and began creating with Light in Gen 1:3.Huh? Let's stay on track here. No need to strawman me with rhetoric.
When they were CREATED. Not when they already existed and He began to shape them. Notice that verse seven is already skipping to the sixth day. This account skips much of what chapter 1 tells us, but it starts, just as chapter 1 did, with God making the heavens and Earth from nothing.So, why can God allow for ancient Israelite culture and context in the Bible when it comes to anatomy, such as in references of kidneys and intestines, but God can't do the same for Israelite cosmology?
And in Genesis chapter 2, God did start with pre existing material. What are you talking about?
Genesis 2:4-7 NASB1995
[4] This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. [5] Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. [6] But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. [7] Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
There is debate as to whether Job came before the Flood or after it. If it came before the Flood, then we have absolutely no way of knowing what the sky was like before God released the water that was above the Earth.
Figurative language or not, these passages still say what they say.It may very well have been like a metal mirror. But if he came after the Flood, then it is, as some Scripture is, figurative language that again does not necessarily indicate the cosmology of the writer.
Again, the sky does appear as a vaulted dome over the Earth from any place on the Earth that one stands. This does not indicate any extraordinary cosmology.
I've never said that. That God didn't create the heavens and the earth? You're just being dishonest again.No strawman. You said yourself that God did not create the heavens and the earth; that He started with a preexisting earth and began creating with Light in Gen 1:3.
When they were CREATED. Not when they already existed and He began to shape them. Notice that verse seven is already skipping to the sixth day. This account skips much of what chapter 1 tells us, but it starts, just as chapter 1 did, with God making the heavens and Earth from nothing.
Again, the sky does appear as a vaulted dome over the Earth from any place on the Earth that one stands. This does not indicate any extraordinary cosmology. (already addressed in previous post).What about Amos?
Amos 9:6 NASB1995
[6] The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Is the sky not perfectly clear (well, probably much more clear 3500 years ago)?Or Exodus:
and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10
This is in a vision and cold be describing Heaven (the third Heaven/where God lives) or Earth, we cannot be sure.Or
Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22
God is all powerful. He set the "laws" that govern how the sky works, how water works, how the earth is fixed around the Sun, and the ground is fixed in place on the surface of the Earth. This has nothing to do with describing ancient Israelite cosmology.Or proverbs etc.
He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-29
The same can be said today. The sky is a dome above us from any point on Earth that we stand, from the tallest mountain peak to the lowest pit from which you can still see the sky; it is still a dome overhead. That does not change or impact our understanding that the Earth is a globe, or that the atmosphere above us is a complete sphere around the Earth. So it should not be used to say that they had a different understanding of the world than what we have. You are making a stupid and ignorant argument.Figurative language or not, these passages still say what they say.
I'm perfectly happy calling these figurative passages. But even still, they still describe a dome in the sky, as is per usual in ancient Israelite cosmology.
It still is today.A solid vault or vaulted dome is a common aspect of ancient cosmology.
Forgive me. I confused you with another thread of conversation. My mistake.I've never said that. That God didn't create the heavens and the earth? You're just being dishonest again.
No assumption at all. Just reading what the Word of God says. On day three God made land (Gen 1:8-9) and on day six God made man (Gen 1:23-26). So when Gen 2:5 says there was no shrub on the land, we know we are somewhere early on day three, and when Gen 2:7 states that He made man, He is skipping forward to later in the day on day six.Please spare me your assumptions.
Do you normally describe the sky as being like pavement of sapphire stone?Again, the sky does appear as a vaulted dome over the Earth from any place on the Earth that one stands. This does not indicate any extraordinary cosmology. (already addressed in previous post).
Is the sky not perfectly clear (well, probably much more clear 3500 years ago)?
It's the same term, the Hebrew raqia.This is in a vision and cold be describing Heaven (the third Heaven/where God lives) or Earth, we cannot be sure.
When people ask you to describe the sky, is "strong" one of the first adjectives that comes to mind?God is all powerful. He set the "laws" that govern how the sky works, how water works, how the earth is fixed around the Sun, and the ground is fixed in place on the surface of the Earth. This has nothing to do with describing ancient Israelite cosmology.
Yes, so stupid and ignorant that the majority of Christian Hebrew scholars make the same arguments. Thank you for enlightening me.The same can be said today. The sky is a dome above us from any point on Earth that we stand, from the tallest mountain peak to the lowest pit from which you can still see the sky; it is still a dome overhead. That does not change or impact our understanding that the Earth is a globe, or that the atmosphere above us is a complete sphere around the Earth. So it should not be used to say that they had a different understanding of the world than what we have. You are making a stupid and ignorant argument.
It still is today.
Forgive me. I confused you with another thread of conversation. My mistake.
No assumption at all. Just reading what the Word of God says. On day three God made land (Gen 1:8-9) and on day six God made man (Gen 1:23-26). So when Gen 2:5 says there was no shrub on the land, we know we are somewhere early on day three, and when Gen 2:7 states that He made man, He is skipping forward to later in the day on day six.
Is that why they built a golden calf?Of course the Israelites followed God and not pagan deities.
Please pay attention to discussion to understand the context in which I am speaking.Is that why they built a golden calf?
This is so false, please reread your bible.
You made this statement that was proven false in my last post period..........Please pay attention to discussion to understand the context in which I am speaking.
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