Should you believe in the trinity II

[2ducklow]

Those comments were addressed to 'Kris10leigh', not you.

Simonline

so when you answer my post you are really talking to someone else, cool. can i get a no comment?
see your post #318 here where you responded to my post.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6847351&page=32

but you prob. just made a mistake, but you could go back and correct it to , "no comment'.

 

[2ducklow]

There are many things beyond our rational in scripture, do we call it confusion? No, we embrace it because YHWH has written it and He is holy pure and perfect beyond our intellect.

For example:

Creation: How is something created from nothing

Miricles: Dead raised, serious incurable diseases healed, water changed into wine etc...

We study and reach conclusions to measure of what the holy spirit will allow.

here is your quote/

"Jesus cannot be analyzed and calculated. But whoever speaks of him in human words is entering into the realm of "rational" speech. There is no unique language for the realm of the incalculable and the "irrational." Thus, where we express "eschatological history," the origin and the goal, God's reality in the man Jesus, our language collapses; it becomes paradoxical. We could also say that our language then expresses awe. It says those things which leave men "speechless." Its terms are not then a means for grasping but rather for making known that we have been grasped. It is not then a form of mastery, but testimony to the overpowering experience which has come upon man."
​

http://vintage.aomin.org/CHALC.html

why are you trying to use human words to explain Jesus when you say human words can't explain him? it makes you a deceiver to say human words can't explain Jesus, then latter on try and explain him with human words. IN fact to be true to your beliefs, you should never talk about Jesus, at least not with human words.

 

[Simonline]

so when you answer my post you are really talking to someone else, cool. can i get a no comment?
see your post #318 here where you responded to my post.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6847351&page=32

but you prob. just made a mistake, but you could go back and corect it to , "no comment'.

See post #321

Simonline.

 

[2ducklow]

See post #321

Simonline.

you're slipping there simon, another something other than "no comment' to my posts to you. feeling sick or something?

 

[Simonline]

you're slipping there simon, another something other than "no comment' to my posts to you. feeling sick or something?

I'm not ignoring you in the absolute sense. I'm just refusing to engage you in theological/metaphysical/philosophical discussion/debate.

Simonline.

 

[scriptures]

Simon....I don't believe the way ducklow believes..... but I can see here that your not capable of defending your faith.....

 

[2ducklow]

If the Father is the One True God, and the Son is the One True God than how can the Father be greater than the Son? Jn 14:28 "You have heard how I have said to you, I go away and am coming to you again. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, I go to the Father, for my Father is greater than I." The Trinitarian doctrine cannot be reconciled with this statement made by Yeshua Himself.
​

​

How little you know and how much less you understand!

The Father is only greater than the Son, existing as incarnate (i.e. as a human creature). The Father is NOT greater than the Son existing as non-incarnate (i.e. as the Divine Creator (cf. Col.1:13-17)) because, although They are Persons distinct from each other They are still the One and Only Absolute Reality who is YHWH (cf. Isa.43:10-13; 46:6; 48:12; Jn.1:1,14; 14:6; 17:17; Acts.4:12; Rev.1:8; 21:6; 22:13).

Like I said, there is absolutely no biblical text that, when correctly interpreted and understood, is incompatible with the doctrine of the Trinitarian Nature of God or His incarnation as the Messiah. Unlike those who refuse to believe His Divine Revelation, YHWH Himself is not stupid and, unlike the theology of those who refuse to believe Him, ALL of His Divine Revelations are coherent and internally consistent.

If you're going to try and refute the Truth then you're going to have to do an awful lot better than this?!

Simonline.

Clmanning, what simon is saying in a nutshell is that there are two Jesuses, one JEsus is lesser than The Father, the other Jesus isn't. And of course 2 Jesuses are/is one YHWH. .both Jesuses together are one YHWH, so one Jesus isn't YHWH, only 1/2 but numbers mean nothing so 1/2 is 1. get it? see it's all very simple, YHWH is made up of 3 persons of God, and YHWH is 2 JEsuses each distinct from the other. So YHWH= 3persons of God= 2 JEsuses.

and so the father is only greater than one JEsus, who he is 1/3 of, but the other JEsus God the Father is not greater than, which he is also 1/3 of (since as simon claims YHWH is or exists as both Jesuses.) confused? Now you get the idea. the more confused you get the better you will understand the irrational word of God. rational thought is a no no.

"Jesus cannot be analyzed and calculated. But whoever speaks of him in human words is entering into the realm of "rational" speech. There is no unique language for the realm of the incalculable and the "irrational." Thus, where we express "eschatological history," the origin and the goal, God's reality in the man Jesus, our language collapses; it becomes paradoxical. We could also say that our language then expresses awe. It says those things which leave men "speechless." Its terms are not then a means for grasping but rather for making known that we have been grasped. It is not then a form of mastery, but testimony to the overpowering experience which has come upon man."
​

http://vintage.aomin.org/CHALC.html

so like it says, you gotta get irrational. and human words can't explain it, so they use human words to explain it. Irrational, confusing ? now you are understanding it. The big mistake that non trinitarians make, (speaking from a trinitarian perspective which I am not) is that they try and understand the trinity with there rational mind and should instead get irrational, then it will all be unclear and once you reach the state of unclear, you got it down pat man. Simon you might want to copy this for future reference to use in explaining how to understand the trinity. bascially it's get irrational and stay as far away from rational as you can and you will understand trintiy. You need to emphasise the irrationality of it and steer people away from being rational. You haven't emphasised this enough,IMO. People , like me, just automatically assume that you are trying to make rational sense in what you say, but if you were to emphasise that you are being irrational and not rational, that trinity can only be explained irrationally, then people wouldn't attempt to make rational sense out of anything you say. That is your great failing in explaining your beiefs, you let people assume you are being rational. Reread the quote above from the great trinitarian theologian, James White, and take his adivce to heart. irrational, is the key word. As the quote from the reknowned trinitarian theologian who is greatly admired says, Jesus is in the realm of the irrational. we non trintarians all believe Jesus is iin the realm of rational thought so you are failing to emphasise the key component to understaning you IRRATIONAL.

 

[Simonline]

Simon....I don't believe the way ducklow believes..... but I can see here that your not capable of defending your faith.....

I am more capable than most people who patronize this site (including you).

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Clmanning, what simon is saying in a nutshell is that there are two Jesuses, one JEsus is lesser than The Father, the other Jesus isn't. And of course 2 Jesuses are/is one YHWH. I don't know how he fits God the son in the equation since he is saying that both Jesuses are YHWH.

I'll thank you not to speak for me, especially when you obviously have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about?! If 'clmanning' wants to ask questions about or seek clarification on anything I have said then I am more than capable of speaking for myself, thankyou [It's stupid comments like that that make me more determined than ever not to engage you in any kind of discussion or debate because all you do is deliberately distort anything and everything that I say?!].

Simonline.

 

[2ducklow]

I'll thank you not to speak for me, especially when you obviously have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about?!

that's the idea, now you got it.

They are Persons distinct from each other They are still the One and Only Absolute Reality who is YHWH

my analysis of the above statement

two Jesuses, one JEsus is lesser than The Father, the other Jesus isn't. .....both Jesuses together are one YHWH

so you got it. My rational analysis of your irrational thought fails because it rationally assumes that when you say
they are persons distinct from one another, that they doesn't mean 2 and distinct doesn't mean they aren't each other, gottcha, I forgot to get irrational.. and when you said they are YHWH, my analysis that 2 jesuses are one yHWH was wrong cause I was thinking ratinoally again. gottcha.

[/quote]

If 'clmanning' wants to ask questions about or seek clarification on anything I have said then I am more than capable of speaking for myself, thankyou [It's stupid comments like that that make me more determined than ever not to engage you in any kind of discussion or debate because all you do is deliberately distort anything and everything that I say?!].

Simonline.

hum doesn't stupid = irrational? not exactly i guess, some stupid people can be rational, and some super intelligent people can be irrational. LIke lots of stupid people are rational enough to know that the odds are stacked against them in kasinos, and lots of intelligent people go there and throw all there money away. go figure. Intelligence isn't all it's cracked up to be.

anyway i wasn't talking to you , just responding to your post. you know like you aren't talking to me just responding to my posts. man I think we are hitting new hights of irrationality. don't forget we aren't talking to each other just responding to each others posts.

 

[yashualover]

here is your quote/

http://vintage.aomin.org/CHALC.html

why are you trying to use human words to explain Jesus when you say human words can't explain him? it makes you a deceiver to say human words can't explain Jesus, then latter on try and explain him with human words. IN fact to be true to your beliefs, you should never talk about Jesus, at least not with human words.

If you are truly born again the Holy Spirit will give you a sufficient understanding of the Trinity.

Dont expect to fully understand we are talking about an Almighty creator who speaks to create something out of nothing and it is done!

 

[2ducklow]

If you are truly born again the Holy Spirit will give you a sufficient understanding of the Trinity.

says you not scripture. no scripture says that you just made it up. you are making up your own requirements for salvation that have nothing t o do with the biblical requirements.

Dont expect to fully understand we are talking about an Almighty creator who speaks to create something out of nothing and it is done!

an irrational explanation, such as trinity, is no explanation, not even partial. an explanation explains something, Nonsenseical irrational statements explain nothing. 3 is one explains nothing, it is irrational and contradictory. A partial explanation of something explains something in a rational comprehensive manner, not in an illogical, contradictory irrational, nonsenscial manner. Your irrational explanations are no explanations. Not partial, not fully.


I don't know fully how an air conditioner works but I know that there is a rational explanation for how it works, I don't fill in the blanks of what I do know with a bunch of irrational statements such as an exkimo comes down my chimmney at night and puts some north pole ice in it. cause thats the only possible explanation. that's how your tirnity explanations work. 3 persons of god each of which is god all by himself but not if you want to add the 3 up, in fact you can't even callthem 3 you have to call them one, but if you call them person of god, instead of g od, then you are permitted to add them up to 3 .otherwise the same 3 individuals are one individual. which is just as irrational, even more, than my exkimo theory of air conditioning.


Every time our understanding of the bible and god increases, it increases because we comprehend more about god, and understand more about God or the bible, we neverincreas our understanding with irrationality, that only decreases our understanding. all you can do with irrational statements , such as 3 is one , is accept them you can never understand it. so your understanding of god is not increased by believeing he is 3 and 3 is one, your understanding of god has decreased to the point of non comprehension.

 

[scriptures]

I am more capable than most people who patronize this site (including you).

Simonline.

Sorry brother....but that's how I see it!!!!!

 

[Simonline]

Sorry brother....but that's how I see it!!!!!

Correction. That's how you choose to see it because you do not want to believe the truth (and since you choose to base your understanding on the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures that's hardly surprizing).

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

says you not scripture. no scripture says that you just made it up. you are making up your own requirements for salvation that have nothing t o do with the biblical requirements.


an irrational explanation, such as trinity, is no explanation, not even partial. an explanation explains something, Nonsenseical irrational statements explain nothing. 3 is one explains nothing, it is irrational and contradictory. A partial explanation of something explains something in a rational comprehensive manner, not in an illogical, contradictory irrational, nonsenscial manner. Your irrational explanations are no explanations. Not partial, not fully.


I don't know fully how an air conditioner works but I know that there is a rational explanation for how it works, I don't fill in the blanks of what I do know with a bunch of irrational statements such as an exkimo comes down my chimmney at night and puts some north pole ice in it. cause thats the only possible explanation. that's how your tirnity explanations work. 3 persons of god each of which is god all by himself but not if you want to add the 3 up, in fact you can't even callthem 3 you have to call them one, but if you call them person of god, instead of g od, then you are permitted to add them up to 3 .otherwise the same 3 individuals are one individual. which is just as irrational, even more, than my exkimo theory of air conditioning.


Every time our understanding of the bible and god increases, it increases because we comprehend more about god, and understand more about God or the bible, we neverincreas our understanding with irrationality, that only decreases our understanding. all you can do with irrational statements , such as 3 is one , is accept them you can never understand it. so your understanding of god is not increased by believeing he is 3 and 3 is one, your understanding of god has decreased to the point of non comprehension.

Don't worry 'yashualover' he's as obdurate with me too (Matt.11:25-26; 13:11-17; 1Cor.1:18-2:16; 2Cor.4:4)!

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

that's the idea, now you got it.



my analysis of the above statement



so you got it. My rational analysis of your irrational thought fails because it rationally assumes that when you say
they are persons distinct from one another, that they doesn't mean 2 and distinct doesn't mean they aren't each other, gottcha, I forgot to get irrational.. and when you said they are YHWH, my analysis that 2 jesuses are one yHWH was wrong cause I was thinking ratinoally again. gottcha.

hum doesn't stupid = irrational? not exactly i guess, some stupid people can be rational, and some super intelligent people can be irrational. LIke lots of stupid people are rational enough to know that the odds are stacked against them in kasinos, and lots of intelligent people go there and throw all there money away. go figure. Intelligence isn't all it's cracked up to be.

anyway i wasn't talking to you , just responding to your post. you know like you aren't talking to me just responding to my posts. man I think we are hitting new hights of irrationality. don't forget we aren't talking to each other just responding to each others posts.

No comment

Simonline.

 

[2ducklow]

No comment

Simonline.

hummmm sorta remeinds me of

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/graphics/cone_title.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/cone.html&h=400&w=600&sz=161&tbnid=7VHXx5yJcAsJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcone%2Bof%2Bsilence&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

 

[Simonline]

hummmm sorta remeinds me of

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...n&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

Only what has come to be expected of you.

Simonline.

 

[2ducklow]

Only what has come to be expected of you.

Simonline.

I just like the idea of a cone of silence better than no comment.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...n&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

 

[Simonline]

I just like the idea of a cone of silence better than no comment.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...n&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

You're repeating yourself (but it won't change anything).

Simonline.