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You love this don't you? I'm going to say that i do agree with you to the fullest that Witnesses do have two god's in there arguments but always tend ignore it!
if one lord refers to both Jesus and God the Father then either it means that they are one in the same being or that they are two different beings who are one in everything they do. However , I believe that it just refers to the Lord Jesus, not to the Lord God YHWH because of several reasons, like it also says one baptism, but htere are 2 baptisms, so it obviously refers to water baptism given the context of the verse. and in the context of the verse I believe it means one lord Jesus, not 2 lord Jesuses or 3 or 4. The context being that eph. 4.6 says "One God the Father" the context being we have one lord Jesus, one faith, one baptism (in Jesus name, water baptism) and one god the Father.Brother 2ducklow, you have 2 lords, but the Bible said only one lord...
That means then that your 2 gods are one godscriptures said:.the same manner that I have 2 Gods one almighty and one inferior.....
The problem is that the bible says God the Father is the one and only true God. It doesn't say God the Father and Jesus are the one and only true God, Just God the Father. so your 2 gods are one God theology falls apart on john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6.scriptures said:So, I don't see any problem with my belief....
what don't you understand , everything?Brother 2ducklow, I don't see your logic their...
there is one lord God and one lord Jesus. there are not 2 gods in the bible only one. there is not a god the father and god the son. only the one true god which is God the Father. Do you understand this logic?scriptures said:. you accept 2 lords even though the Bible said there is only one lord...but you cannot accept 2 Gods???
you forgot that john 17.3 says that God the father is the ONLY true God. you left only out. How can Jesus be God if God the Father is the only god? or the only true God? he can't and isn't. do you understand this logic?scriptures said:I understand "one true God" to mean one supreme God....Because He is God of gods...Just like I accept one Lord ....
agape
scriptures
What you are promoting is very similar to Nestorianism which is a heresy.
You are saying that Jesus was not God in his Temporal state only human.
Meaning that as Nesterious argued that Jesus divinity was separated from his humanity which makes it two different beings with separate natures, You are also arguing that Christ was not God nor divine only man.
Your argument as Nesterious arguments posses a serious threat on the atonement because if Jesus was only a man while the heavenly Messiah was divine, then we can never tell if the real Messiah truly suffered for the sins of the world.[/quote
]
Except that THERE IS ONLY ONE MESSIAH who is both Divine and human. Only as human did the Messiah die upon the cross (because YHWH is incapable of experiencing death [If 'death' is 'separation from God' then where does God, as both Eternal and Immutable, go to die?!]). The Scriptures teach that the Messiah suffered for the sin of the world but only as human (i.e. by means of His human nature) did the Messiah suffer.
You are separating there natures with your argument as Nesterious did!
Not true! Nestorius separated not only the natures but the Person as well (that's why the Christian Church denounced him as a heretic). Orthodox Christianity separates neither the natures nor the Person. The Person is ONE (the Person of the Son (the Second Person of the Eternal, Immutable and Tri-Personal Creator, YHWH) and the natures are distinguished from each other but not separated (since they are united in the Person)).
Your line of argumentation is not biblical, it's heretical and dangerous! Take a look at the below link and reconsider this
I suggest that you go away and learn your theology seriously before you start denouncing those who clearly have a much better grasp of theology than you have?! Far from being 'heretical' and 'dangerous', my arguments are soundly Biblical and have been the doctrine of orthodox Christianity for nearly two millennia now (even though many present day Christians are so theologically ignorant that they would no longer be able to correctly distinguish between truth and heresy...as your post testifies).
Do[n't] point fingers at others when your argumentation has also been considered a heresy, it is a remodified form of Nestorianism, but it is still Nestorianism.
As I have said, like many modern-day Christians, you clearly cannot distinguish between Nestorian heresy and orthodox truth (the distinctions being very subtle in deed)?!
I suggest that you do some serious theological and historical study before you attempt to reply to another of my posts?
Simonline.
This is very confusing to me. You said the Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth, but you are talking about Jesus and the Messiah as if they are two separate persons.
Your other statements have left me with questions:
1. Jesus isn't Divine he's only human, but the Messiah is both Divine and human. (1st quote)
2. Jesus is not God, but the Messiah is both God and man. (2nd quote)
How can Jesus (the Messiah) be Divine, yet not Divine? Not God, yet both God and man?
I am not trying to start an argument, I sincerely want to understand your reasoning.
Hi Virtual Girl. You see, Simonline has a lot of Jealousy for the truth. Yet statements like the above completely throw me off. And when i ask questions concerning those statements, he feels like i'm personally attacking him, and considers me as not wanting to make any honest efforts in understanding, thus all my arguments are discarded with a nice big and bold heretic.
What i think he wants to say with the above is an illusion [that's 'allusion' not 'illusion'] to the fact that Mashiyach is said to literally be in the bosom of the Father present tense, while simultaneously being on earth at the time John 1:18!
But the fact that the text reads as such, only means that Yeshua was actually divine and human, not that he was both not divine and man, while simultaneously being eternally divine and man!
Because it is the Messiah (i.e. the Son), not 'Jesus', who is both Divine and human. As Divine, the Messiah (i.e. the Son) is YHWH. As human, the Messiah (i.e. the Son) is Jesus of Nazareth.
Simonline.
seems to me you don't want to deal with the points i have brought up for discussion. as you have repeatedly ignored my statements.Brother 2ducklow, one lord is two lord in different sense... just as one god is actually two gods also in different sense....
since you admitted that one lord can mean two lords...it is but logical to admit that one god can mean many.....
agape
scriptures....
its all confusing gibberish to me.Light bulb moment!!! I'm beginning to understand this, Simonline. Thanks.
~Veeg
says you but not the bibleNo Trinity No God..
A person is yet unconverted if they disbelieve the Trinity..Father, Son, and Holy Ghost..
says you but not the bible
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
But you dont heareth Gods word if you dont hear trinity..
says you not the bible.But you dont heareth Gods word if you dont hear trinity..
If Mashiyach and Yeshua are the same person, does each name convey a different meaning?
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