Should we Unite?

[Miracle Storm]

Seriously, and this is ONLY my opinon.

This is getting WAY to long and excluding people based on certain theologies that has nothing to do with someone being saved or not.

Even though there is a clause that protects though who disagree with certain things or have yet to understand them it refers to them as ignorant. Which I think is insulting to them and just plain wrong. This is a dividing postion "definition of Christianity"

It pushes many liberals away and even if they are protect my the one portion it is still insulting to them.

I'm sorry, I don't like the way this looks...

 

[Time2BCounted]

Well i understand but what we are trying to do is close the doors to ANY liberal theology that is specificly soul damning. I see no other way to do that.

 

[Nadiine]

Well i understand but what we are trying to do is close the doors to ANY liberal theology that is specificly soul damning. I see no other way to do that.

I understand Miracle's issue - we all want to keep this as condensed as possible.
My input is this - the belief in the Trinity specifically (and even Jesus is God) doctrines are the 2 that make a dividing line between the 2 drastic worldviews - not 100% becuz not all liberals reject either doctrine.

But it does put a cinch around the waist of all the other unorthodox and/or 'offbeat' doctrines that nontrinitarians essentially present.
For example: just 4 days ago, a nontrinitarian in the NonDenom. section just made a post speaking about a book he knows about and how we should now question Paul's salvational teachings from the Bible.
That he should be questioned because James claimed he was "a liar".
Again, NONTRINITARIANS carry these subsequent offbeat doctrines that get introduced as Christian truth in this forum.

This is where we're coming from - and this is why the huge divide. Frankly, I don't consider 'division' wrong or bad either - God tells us to COME OUT FROM THEM and be separate.
I gladly do it without apology. But for all intents and purposes of THIS forum that we're all in, we have to come to a happy medium or chaos and fighting will be the norm.

As of now, we don't unite, and something has to be a divider bar - if we water this def. down, there's no POINT in making one becuz it stays status quo anyways - which isn't working.
:o

 

[Time2BCounted]

Amen well said

We as believers, believe and follow God according to His word. This being the case, we cannot allow satan to 'blackmail' us with 'love' and 'unity' at the expence of truth. Imho Jesus makes this clear when He said...

Matthew 10

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

 

[Miracle Storm]

I agree with what Nadiine said almost completely.

This is the thing though, it is becoming less about "defining Christianity" to protect others and seemingly more political to those whom have different theological viewpoints WHICH ARE NOT damning.

Frankly the main doctrine spreading that concerns me is universalism, the thought that someone can be saved through Christ after death. Which is a lie straight from hell.

Liberals are not our enemies, though we have VERY STRONG, differing view points. Things I believe to be ethical/moral, they disagree with completely.
THAT does NOT mean I want to divide from them.

WHEN I say UNITED WE STAND. I mean ALL Christains, not just those that agree with me.

On moral ground I will take my stand against someone who is a brother/sister in Christ.

BUT I will not back a policy defining Christians in such a way that is SO limited.
God knows who are HIS.

Do we want to keep heretical doctrine out of this? YES of course.
BUT there are different interpretations to certain Scriptures and I for one am not willing to exclude someone based on there interpretation.

I see things posted in this proposal that is not about protecting, but exclusion.

I'm just not a person that is "if your not with me, you are against me"

Each individual Christian, human, for that matter has there own Walk to Walk and Jesus is right there by them.
We cannot fathom the love God has for them and we would seek to exclude them from our brotherhood in Christ, even if just written on a Christian message board?
Sorry, I don't buy.

It's not about oh lovie dovie and sacrificing my beliefs so that they may be happy. It is about God loving these people as much as HE loves me, you, all of us.

Jesus dying on the cross was the payment and I will NOT make any statement and be in agreement with that their is more to it than that.

We are not making a reciept of purchase here or a declaration of WHO is the BEST Christian. There is NO best Christian, for all fall short of the glory of God.

I'm not doing the US verses THEM. NOT when they are part of the BODY of Christ, just as I am. I will not make war with my own body in this....NO..

I was for this in the beginning, a way to stop the convoluted truths from being spread that could damn a soul, but it has went WAY to far...

I'm sorry.

 

[Nadiine]

To Miracle, I don't have time tonight to go into your statements, I hope I get time tomorrow.
But I wanted to make a note that I do hear what you're saying and I feel you sincerely want to deal with this the right way and just have legitimate concerns.
I had some too (mine was with adding an ignorance clause in trinity understanding - we cannot exclude people that don't understand it yet but ARE believers who aren't denying it)....

Anyways, I appreciate your input and hope to reply tomorrow.

 

[Followers4christ]

I will gladly fight right beside you brother in this battle to keep "CC" a safe haven for Christians.God Bless

2 Timothy 2:3 Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

 

[MrJim]

Well i understand but what we are trying to do is close the doors to ANY liberal theology that is specificly soul damning. I see no other way to do that.

This is what the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Church (Lutheran & Reformed) did with my anabaptist forebears~in fighting for "correct" doctrine people were exiled, jailed, and even killed. Now many of their teachings are considered "orthodox", particularly believer's baptism and the Free Church (a church not entangled with government).

Christ and Christians as "Crusading Warriors" is being pitted against Christ and Christians as "Suffering Servants". I can proof text far more NT scriptures under the suffering servant than I can the crusading warrior.

Yup, we stand for truth in the arena of ideas. I used to be one that would rather be surrounded by people just like me, but I found that was only a shield~great incubator but confining after a while. I don't fear discussing with those unlike me, because the reality is that I don't become defiled being with them. I strongly believe in the "no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness" and have little tolerance with the militant homosexual/abortionists. Yet I understand too that God will seperate the wheat & tares, the sheep & goats, and I am not called to that judgment.

I come from an anabaptist background, we are a nonresistant sort of folks~turning the other cheek, resist not evil, do not avenge, these are all scriptures too. Many of us tend to step away from that which we believe to be evil instead of confronting a battle. Ours is a belief in the Sermon on the Mount as the CORE of the entire scripture and the heart of Christ's teachings.

I'll continue to watch how things develop, particularly with the new administration~but consider that Christ nor the apostles left us with a creed or doctrinal statement, simply words of Scripture to live by...and we may be doing violence to God's Word & Will by forcing something out of it.

 

[Nadiine]

I will gladly fight right beside you brother in this battle to keep "CC" a safe haven for Christians.God Bless

2 Timothy 2:3 Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

As much as I wish serving in God's kingdom was all sweet little puppy dogs, kittens, glittery butterflies & puffy white clouds in blue skies, we're called to BATTLE as soldiers in warfare against a clever adversary... I think the postmodern definition of Christianity has been warped into expecting cotton candy and magic carpet rides in the sparkly skies....
(not that it's all work and no "play", but it's definitely gotten out of perspective.)

 

[JimfromOhio]

This is what the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Church (Lutheran & Reformed) did with my anabaptist forebears~in fighting for "correct" doctrine people were exiled, jailed, and even killed. Now many of their teachings are considered "orthodox", particularly believer's baptism and the Free Church (a church not entangled with government).

Christ and Christians as "Crusading Warriors" is being pitted against Christ and Christians as "Suffering Servants". I can proof text far more NT scriptures under the suffering servant than I can the crusading warrior.

Yup, we stand for truth in the arena of ideas. I used to be one that would rather be surrounded by people just like me, but I found that was only a shield~great incubator but confining after a while. I don't fear discussing with those unlike me, because the reality is that I don't become defiled being with them. I strongly believe in the "no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness" and have little tolerance with the militant homosexual/abortionists. Yet I understand too that God will seperate the wheat & tares, the sheep & goats, and I am not called to that judgment.

I come from an anabaptist background, we are a nonresistant sort of folks~turning the other cheek, resist not evil, do not avenge, these are all scriptures too. Many of us tend to step away from that which we believe to be evil instead of confronting a battle. Ours is a belief in the Sermon on the Mount as the CORE of the entire scripture and the heart of Christ's teachings.

I'll continue to watch how things develop, particularly with the new administration~but consider that Christ nor the apostles left us with a creed or doctrinal statement, simply words of Scripture to live by...and we may be doing violence to God's Word & Will by forcing something out of it.

I agree.

I have been a member of an Anabaptist Church for 20 some years and there is some Anabaptist beliefs in me even though I am now pretty much into Reformed teachings. Looking back in history, Reformed leaders like John Calvin and Martin Luther were persecuted for discovering the truth of "justification by faith." Once this truth was established, Luther persecuted the Anabaptists because they felt the need to bring further Biblical reforms into the church. Looking back on that historically, we see that most, if not all, of those punishments were due religion trying to hold onto its doctrine. As an Anabaptist and Reformed follower, I believe that God is THE sovereign God and we have to understand that somehow, mysteriously, within the framework of predestination and within the framework of His sovereignty and the framework of election, which I believe in, there is a place for human freewill which is whether they respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

I will fight for true doctrines however how I fight is the key. I often stay away from debating with those who advocate the regulative principle do so because I really believed that they actually enjoy fighting over small matters rather than spiritual truth. Such arguements such as smallest formality worship details can easily become a form of legalism rather than in spirit.

 

[JimfromOhio]

So, I am united with those I agree with doctrinally however I am not united with some of how they argue doctrinally.

 

[Miracle Storm]

This is what the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Church (Lutheran & Reformed) did with my anabaptist forebears~in fighting for "correct" doctrine people were exiled, jailed, and even killed. Now many of their teachings are considered "orthodox", particularly believer's baptism and the Free Church (a church not entangled with government).

Christ and Christians as "Crusading Warriors" is being pitted against Christ and Christians as "Suffering Servants". I can proof text far more NT scriptures under the suffering servant than I can the crusading warrior.

Yup, we stand for truth in the arena of ideas. I used to be one that would rather be surrounded by people just like me, but I found that was only a shield~great incubator but confining after a while. I don't fear discussing with those unlike me, because the reality is that I don't become defiled being with them. I strongly believe in the "no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness" and have little tolerance with the militant homosexual/abortionists. Yet I understand too that God will seperate the wheat & tares, the sheep & goats, and I am not called to that judgment.

I come from an anabaptist background, we are a nonresistant sort of folks~turning the other cheek, resist not evil, do not avenge, these are all scriptures too. Many of us tend to step away from that which we believe to be evil instead of confronting a battle. Ours is a belief in the Sermon on the Mount as the CORE of the entire scripture and the heart of Christ's teachings.

I'll continue to watch how things develop, particularly with the new administration~but consider that Christ nor the apostles left us with a creed or doctrinal statement, simply words of Scripture to live by...and we may be doing violence to God's Word & Will by forcing something out of it.

You speak truth. Big part of your post that just stood out is that which I bolded in blue.
This is my concern as well. In the deepest part of my heart I want God's Word to do the talking, not us adding our thoughts and beliefs to who is or who is NOT Christian.
If we could do that and then try to wiki a rule such as universalism not being allowed to be promoted I would be much more satisfied. It is hard to agree to things that I know I, for the most part, agree with, but that will exclude others as a "true Christian"
Plus the (ignorance is bliss) clause....I don't like it. Because some do not believe they are in ignorance, it is their beliefs and they are not damning.
Now if we want to outreach and spread God's word in Theological matters that can be done in the Theology forum or debate. It doesn't need to be done in "defining a Christian"

1 Corinthians 4:

4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
__________________________________________

 

[Followers4christ]

As much as I wish serving in God's kingdom was all sweet little puppy dogs, kittens, glittery butterflies & puffy white clouds in blue skies, we're called to BATTLE as soldiers in warfare against a clever adversary... I think the postmodern definition of Christianity has been warped into expecting cotton candy and magic carpet rides in the sparkly skies....
(not that it's all work and no "play", but it's definitely gotten out of perspective.)

Thank you sister for the reps. Were all in this fight together and we must all unite as the body of Christ.God Bless You All