Should we bring up truths that arent completely unveiled such as the Godhead/Trinity?

[reddogs]

I was telling one of my friends who is strong in Gods truth about the various discussions we had on the forum, and he said something that left me thinking. He told me that some truths have not been fully unveiled and we have to wait till we see God or it is unveiled and shown to us as God sees fit in the last days. One was the understanding of the Godhead/Trinity, and the nature of Christ, and who the 144,000 are, etc..

He felt it might cause unnecessary confusion, agnst, or maybe frustration in new Christians that were still on the milk but not yet to the meat of the truths. I told him most Christians that came to the forum were more 'mature' and could handle these truths, but should we 'tackle' some of these more difficult concepts that we do not yet have a 'complete' understanding from scripture......

 

[freeindeed2]

I was telling one of my friends who is strong in Gods truth

Are you talking about Jesus who IS the truth, or something else here?

about the various discussions we had on the forum, and he said something that left me thinking. He told me that some truths have not been fully unveiled and we have to wait till we see God or it is unveiled and shown to us as God sees fit in the last days. One was the understanding of the Godhead/Trinity, and the nature of Christ, and who the 144,000 are, etc..

What makes you think that you'll EVER understand the Godhead/Trinity? God has NO boundaries, there is nothing that provides limits for him. He is beyond comprehension. He is the 'I AM'. We will always be finite and he will always be infinite. Do you think we'll fully grasp the Infinite ever? I don't (and it's kind of a guarantee that we'll never get 'bored' EVER). An infinite God means infinite possibilities. It's not like we'll get there and go 'OH, OK, now I understand the Godhead. Next!". We'll never wrap our minds around the total picture of who God is.

He felt it might cause unnecessary confusion, agnst, or maybe frustration in new Christians that were still on the milk but not yet to the meat of the truths.

What is the 'milk' in your opinion?

What is the 'meat'?

I told him most Christians that came to the forum were more 'mature' and could handle these truths, but should we 'tackle' some of these more difficult concepts that we do not yet have a 'complete' understanding from scripture......

Show them Jesus. He is enough.

 

[reddogs]

Are you talking about Jesus who IS the truth, or something else here?


What makes you think that you'll EVER understand the Godhead/Trinity? God has NO boundaries, there is nothing that provides limits for him. He is beyond comprehension. He is the 'I AM'. We will always be finite and he will always be infinite. Do you think we'll fully grasp the Infinite ever? I don't (and it's kind of a guarantee that we'll never get 'bored' EVER). An infinite God means infinite possibilities. It's not like we'll get there and go 'OH, OK, now I understand the Godhead. Next!". We'll never wrap our minds around the total picture of who God is.


What is the 'milk' in your opinion?

What is the 'meat'?


Show them Jesus. He is enough.

You say 'show them Jesus' yet you ignore what He says in scripture on truths such as the Sabbath and the Commandments and overcoming sin, so how do you show them Jesus without the truths He himself gives in the Bible.....?

God's truth which He has laid out from the begining of the world are the same truths Jesus speaks as they are they are from the Father and His commands lead to eternal life........

John 12:42-50
42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.

44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. 47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

 

[freeindeed2]

You say 'show them Jesus' yet you ignore what He says in scripture on truths such as the Sabbath and the Commandments and overcoming sin, so how do you show them Jesus without the truths He gives in the Bible.....?

God's truth which He has laid out from the begining of the world are the same truths Jesus speaks as they are they are from the Father and His commands lead to eternal life........

John 12:42-50
42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.

44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. 47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

And this is where you meet your fundamental problems. You believe the 'truth' to be something other than Christ himself. He IS the Truth (and the way and life). You fail to recognize that he is our everything! You spend your life trying to drink the milk and never realize the meat is Christ himself.

The Sabbath is not the 'way, truth, and life'. It's Jesus! The 10 commandments are not the 'way, truth, and life'. It's Jesus! In fact, the 10 commandments can only do one thing for you, and that's CONDEMN YOU TO DEATH! Life is in Christ alone, and you're experiencing 'food confusion' thinking that the milk is the meat. The old covenant/10 commandments cannot save you and will only kill you (aside from the fact it was a covenant you were never even under!). Salvation is in Christ alone, and we do NOT enter the old covenant/10 commandments through him, rather he has redeemed us from it with his holy blood. Why would you want to go back under its curse? It's a slap in the face to the Redeemer!

Get off the liquid diet!

 

[reddogs]

And this is where you meet your fundamental problems. You believe the 'truth' to be something other than Christ himself. He IS the Truth (and the way and life). You fail to recognize that he is our everything! You spend your life trying to drink the milk and never realize the meat is Christ himself.

The Sabbath is not the 'way, truth, and life'. It's Jesus! The 10 commandments are not the 'way, truth, and life'. It's Jesus! In fact, the 10 commandments can only do one thing for you, and that's CONDEMN YOU TO DEATH! Life is in Christ alone, and you're experiencing 'food confusion' thinking that the milk is the meat. The old covenant/10 commandments cannot save you and will only kill you (aside from the fact it was a covenant you were never even under!). Salvation is in Christ alone, and we do NOT enter the old covenant/10 commandments through him, rather he has redeemed us from it with his holy blood. Why would you want to go back under its curse? It's a slap in the face to the Redeemer!

Get off the liquid diet!

So if we just give a highschool cheer with Christs name in it somewhere we are fine...?

It doesnt matter that we dont follow Christ and what He commands or love God and our fellowman and just continue in sin and it doesnt affect our spiritual life. Something just doesnt ring true with that.....?

1. John 5:14
   Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
   John 5:13-15 (in Context) John 5 (Whole Chapter)
2. John 8:11
   She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
   John 8:10-12 (in Context) John 8 (Whole Chapter)

 

[freeindeed2]

So if we just give a highschool cheer with Christs name in it somewhere we are fine...?

It doesnt matter that we dont follow Christ and what He commands or love God and our fellowman and just continue in sin and it doesnt affect our spiritual life. Something just doesnt ring true with that.....?

1. John 5:14
   Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
   John 5:13-15 (in Context) John 5 (Whole Chapter)
2. John 8:11
   She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
   John 8:10-12 (in Context) John 8 (Whole Chapter)

Amazing how you see trusting in Christ alone for salvation as a "high school cheer with Christ's name in it somewhere"! To me that indicates a lack of trust in Christ and a trust in self and your 'ability' to 'achieve' something. That's not Christianity!

 

[reddogs]

Amazing how you see trusting in Christ alone for salvation as a "high school cheer with Christ's name in it somewhere"! To me that indicates a lack of trust in Christ and a trust in self and your 'ability' to 'achieve' something. That's not Christianity!

No my brother, there is nothing I can do 'trusting in self' for salvation, Christ takes care of that. But giving 'lip service' with a phrase or 'cheer' means nothing if you dont follow what Christ asks, or allow the Holy Spirit to come in and let it do its work to transform you to bear fruit...

Love is a emotion and you can talk about it and make songs or cheers, but at the end of the day it still must be done or shown....

1. Matthew 22:37
   Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
   Matthew 22:36-38 (in Context) Matthew 22 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 22:39
   And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
   Matthew 22:38-40 (in Context) Matthew 22 (Whole Chapter)

Then we see what makes love go cold and hardens the heart.....

1. Matthew 24:12
   And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Are you talking about Jesus who IS the truth, or something else here?


What makes you think that you'll EVER understand the Godhead/Trinity? God has NO boundaries, there is nothing that provides limits for him. He is beyond comprehension. He is the 'I AM'. We will always be finite and he will always be infinite. Do you think we'll fully grasp the Infinite ever? I don't (and it's kind of a guarantee that we'll never get 'bored' EVER). An infinite God means infinite possibilities. It's not like we'll get there and go 'OH, OK, now I understand the Godhead. Next!". We'll never wrap our minds around the total picture of who God is.


What is the 'milk' in your opinion?

What is the 'meat'?


Show them Jesus. He is enough.

It boggles my mind how one can start a thread asking a good question and another can completely disregard the context of the question to interject their own agenda?

If you want to start your own thread start it!

If not then why don't we try to stay on topic? Especially when it is the SECOND POST!

 

[freeindeed2]

It boggles my mind how one can start a thread asking a good question and another can completely disregard the context of the question to interject their own agenda?

My comment was directly on topic. Go read it again. I addressed the trinity 'truth' which was brought up in the OP.

If you want to start your own thread start it!

I have.

If not then why don't we try to stay on topic? Especially when it is the SECOND POST!

If you don't like the response don't read it, or put me on ignore if you must. If you don't like anything you think being challenged don't come in the discussion and debate forum. It was on topic, but your response to it is NOT. Quit your whining!

 

[reddogs]

My comment was directly on topic. Go read it again. I addressed the trinity 'truth' which was brought up in the OP.


I have.


If you don't like the response don't read it, or put me on ignore if you must. If you don't like anything you think being challenged don't come in the discussion and debate forum. It was on topic, but your response to it is NOT. Quit your whining!

Free,
You did go a bit off to start out, but no biggie. I know you are a seeker, but try not to get too snappy with the others, and be nice, as they might not have hardened crusty old shells like us...

So what truths should we study and share with our brothers and sisters if the Trinity/Godhead and others are beyond us, only the little simple ones...

 

[freeindeed2]

Free,
You did go a bit off to start out, but no biggie. I know you are a seeker, but try not to get too snappy with the others, and be nice, as they might not have hardened crusty old shells like us...

So what truths should we study and share with our brothers and sisters if the Trinity/Godhead and others are beyond us, only the little simple ones...

My point was that finite beings will never understand or grasp completely an infinite God, and that Jesus IS the truth. There is no truth apart from the One who IS the Truth.

 

[mva1985]

My point was that finite beings will never understand or grasp completely an infinite God, and that Jesus IS the truth. There is no truth apart from the One who IS the Truth.

Free and Red,

I agree with both of you. Somethings are beyond us, but are still worth exploring.

 

[reddogs]

My point was that finite beings will never understand or grasp completely an infinite God, and that Jesus IS the truth. There is no truth apart from the One who IS the Truth.

But thats were we hit this little problem, as Jesus is the truth and He says to follow the commandments and other things that people dont want to do. So just saying 'Jesus is the truth' but not accepting it, lets people continue with their lives with nothing changed since the words 'Jesus is the truth' and others they say have no meaning attached, just a slogan.

 

[freeindeed2]

But thats were we hit this little problem, as Jesus is the truth and He says to follow the commandments and other things that people dont want to do.

By interpreting it to mean the old covenant/10 commandments you miss the many commands that came directly from Jesus' mouth. He even gave many of them from another mountain, and it wasn't Mt. Sinai. You're stuck at the 10 commandments and cannot move past them. Paul would say you can't see through the veil. It covers your heart and mind and won't be removed until you turn to Christ alone.

So just saying 'Jesus is the truth' but not accepting it, lets people continue with their lives with nothing changed since the words 'Jesus is the truth' and others they say have no meaning attached, just a slogan.

I've never seen that. Maybe that exists in the circle of people you're around, but I haven't seen it. Virtually all that I know (not in Adventism) recognize that Jesus is our everything and that their salvation is completely wrapped up in Who HE IS.

You're little problem is that you're still trying to live under the old covenant/10 commandments and are only condemned to death by them. Life is in Christ!

 

[reddogs]

By interpreting it to mean the old covenant/10 commandments you miss the many commands that came directly from Jesus' mouth. He even gave many of them from another mountain, and it wasn't Mt. Sinai. You're stuck at the 10 commandments and cannot move past them. Paul would say you can't see through the veil. It covers your heart and mind and won't be removed until you turn to Christ alone.


I've never seen that. Maybe that exists in the circle of people you're around, but I haven't seen it. Virtually all that I know (not in Adventism) recognize that Jesus is our everything and that their salvation is completely wrapped up in Who HE IS.

You're little problem is that you're still trying to live under the old covenant/10 commandments and are only condemned to death by them. Life is in Christ!

So we can say we love God with all our heart, soul, and might, but if He asks us to do anything we can just ignore Him...?

 

[sentipente]

So we can say we love God with all our heart, soul, and might, but if He asks us to do anything we can just ignore Him...?

Why is that a problem for you?

 

[mva1985]

By interpreting it to mean the old covenant/10 commandments you miss the many commands that came directly from Jesus' mouth. He even gave many of them from another mountain, and it wasn't Mt. Sinai. You're stuck at the 10 commandments and cannot move past them. Paul would say you can't see through the veil. It covers your heart and mind and won't be removed until you turn to Christ alone.


I've never seen that. Maybe that exists in the circle of people you're around, but I haven't seen it. Virtually all that I know (not in Adventism) recognize that Jesus is our everything and that their salvation is completely wrapped up in Who HE IS.

You're little problem is that you're still trying to live under the old covenant/10 commandments and are only condemned to death by them. Life is in Christ!

Free,

You keep writing "old covenant/10 commandments." The Ten Commandments were not nullified at the Cross. Even in the Old Testament it was God's intent to have the Law written on the hearts of men. That is not just some New Testament idea.

 

[StormyOne]

Free,

You keep writing "old covenant/10 commandments." The Ten Commandments were not nullified at the Cross. Even in the Old Testament it was God's intent to have the Law written on the hearts of men. That is not just some New Testament idea.

since it was God's intent to write his law on our hearts why do people spend so much time trying to tell other people what God wants? Is he not capable of doing that himself?

 

[mva1985]

since it was God's intent to write his law on our hearts why do people spend so much time trying to tell other people what God wants? Is he not capable of doing that himself?

God does use us as His instruments.

 

[StormyOne]

God does use us as His instruments.

so then by your answer you are saying that God is not capable of communicating to us directly he has to use humans to communicate?