Should Video Game Creators be Held Accountable for Adult Themed Mods?

[WatersMoon110]

As an avid player of the Sims 2, I have recently found some (rather old) news articles about a "scandal" having to do with the "nude mods" easily available for the game: article from GameSpot, article from About.com, article from GamingIndustry.biz

While this was apparently right after the little circus that happened with GTA San Andreas' mini-game found through hex-editing the code, I think the issue still has some ethical implications. Do the creators of a game hold responsibility when game users hack the code to include adult situations? Should they be required to better secure their code, so that no hacking is possible? Or are the users responsible if they hack a game to have adult content?

Personally, I think that it is up to individual game owners to make sure their games don't include content they don't want in them. However, I can see some of the view point, that some games are made easy to change, and many people don't want games with lots of sex or violence in them available to their children. While GTA might be sold as "M for Mature" and (store) require that the buyer be 18, The Sims 2 is sold as "T for Teen", but savvy teens can easily make it into a game that would be rated "AO for Adults Only"...

 

[pgp_protector]

They should be held accountable at the same level we hold paint suppliers for allowing people to pain nudes.


FYI. It's impassable to prevent hacking of the code on any PC Platform.

 

[Athene]

No I don't think the game creator should be held responsible for user created content, if parents aren't happy with their teens downloading nude patches then these parents need to go through the game and delete all that stuff and henceforth restrict the sites their teen can download content from.

 

[cantata]

The Sims 2 is sold as "T for Teen", but savvy teens can easily make it into a game that would be rated "AO for Adults Only"...

If the teens in question are capable of making The Sims 2 contain sex and/or violence, I can't imagine how you could make a case that the material they have modified is unsuitable for them. I mean, would you sue someone who makes felt tip pens because a child could draw or write about sex or violence?

I'm not sure how the game can be modded, but if we're basically talking about hacking it so that the characters are naked, or look like they're having sex, or whatever, it's pretty obvious that the people doing the modifying must know about sex and nudity already. If the game surprised them with adult content, that would be inappropriate, but if they go looking for it, or even making it, then how can anyone be held responsible but them? (And to be honest, what serious harm is it going to do?)

 

[exxxys]

I also love the Sims 2!! I've seen these hacks, and they don't offend me. But at the same time, it's not Maxis' fault that someone hacked the game. People can mod almost any program, and like someone said above you cannot always script against it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using these hacks, as long as you're not too young and you understand what it is.

 

[wanderingone]

Game creators should not be held accountable for hacks, and the only people that should be held accountable for teenagers creating their own hacked versions, and accessing them are the teenagers and their parents. Even when it comes to original content, I may choose to personally express to a company that a particular game has made me question if I will continue to purchase any products from them I still hold myself accountable as a parent to know what my children are accessing. I've taught my children certain standards when it comes what I believe acceptable -- a certain amount of silly pure entertainment, or sarcastic social commentary type media is quite reasonable- if they don't figure out for themselves by the time they are teens that something they are viewing, playing, listening to, reading is or isn't acceptable in our home then it's my problem to straighten out that situation.

Basically by the time my kids are in their later teens (16+) I consider them pretty much "cooked" and they are free to make their own choices when it comes to what they indulge in as far as entertainment. That doesn't mean I wouldn't feel free to tell them to get a life and turn that crap off if I found them playing something they shouldn't want to play when mom's around but I'm not going to blame anyone but my kid for accessing it and playing it.

 

[wanderingone]

If the teens in question are capable of making The Sims 2 contain sex and/or violence, I can't imagine how you could make a case that the material they have modified is unsuitable for them. I mean, would you sue someone who makes felt tip pens because a child could draw or write about sex or violence?

I'm not sure how the game can be modded, but if we're basically talking about hacking it so that the characters are naked, or look like they're having sex, or whatever, it's pretty obvious that the people doing the modifying must know about sex and nudity already. If the game surprised them with adult content, that would be inappropriate, but if they go looking for it, or even making it, then how can anyone be held responsible but them? (And to be honest, what serious harm is it going to do?)

Exactly- What my kid does is a reflection of their own ideas and environment. I expect kids (more than adults) to find these kind of hacks amusing... personally if hubby spent much time making the sims x-rated I'd be more concerned -

 

[WorldIsMine]

Should people be held accountable for the actions of other people who are out of their control? What kind of question is that?
This is the kind of crazy that moralism promotes.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Yeah I dont think they should be held accountable.

Funny you mentioned this though. My best friend brings her daughter over to play with my son every other weekend. She is 8 and he is 7. One day Gage said the word sex and we were all like, whoah, where did you hear that word? I asked him about it and he seemed clueless. Then Elizabeth - LOL! - piped up with the explanation. My best friends jaw dropped. She couldn't believe her daughter knew about how to have sex, and my son had the word. She found out it was from Sims 2. We came in the room the other day when the kiddies were on the computer and they were watching a Sims 2 video, and there was a hot tub scene...sigh. Nothing but water shown but the implication was clear. Our children actually learned about the word sex and understood what it was from Sims 2, the irony!

 

[pgp_protector]

Yeah I dont think they should be held accountable.

Funny you mentioned this though. My best friend brings her daughter over to play with my son every other weekend. She is 8 and he is 7. One day Gage said the word sex and we were all like, whoah, where did you hear that word? I asked him about it and he seemed clueless. Then Elizabeth - LOL! - piped up with the explanation. My best friends jaw dropped. She couldn't believe her daughter knew about how to have sex, and my son had the word. She found out it was from Sims 2. We came in the room the other day when the kiddies were on the computer and they were watching a Sims 2 video, and there was a hot tub scene...sigh. Nothing but water shown but the implication was clear. Our children actually learned about the word sex and understood what it was from Sims 2, the irony!

So the non teen children were playing a game designed and designated for Teens, and learned about sex, and that's the games fault ?

I thought it was rated "T" for a reason.

 

[JCFantasy23]

So the non teen children were playing a game designed and designated for Teens, and learned about sex, and that's the games fault ?

I thought it was rated "T" for a reason.

If you read my post, I said I do not consider it the games fault. Also, I did not say my son and she were playing the game at the time. She was watching a video someone else made on the internet about Sims 2.. But yes, my best friend and her husband have let their daughter play Sims since she was four.
Most of my post was light and not made in a derogatory manner toward the game. I know they will learn of sex at this age somehow, it's just ironic it was from Sims 2 of all things. Kids cannot be shielded from the world.

 

[pgp_protector]

If you read my post, I said I do not consider it the games fault. Also, I did not say my son and she were playing the game at the time. She was watching a video someone else made on the internet about Sims 2.. But yes, my best friend and her husband have let their daughter play Sims since she was four.
Most of my post was light and not made in a derogatory manner toward the game. I know they will learn of sex at this age somehow, it's just ironic it was from Sims 2 of all things. Kids cannot be shielded from the world.

I apologize for misreading your post.

I'm so used to people blaming games and looking for scape goats, I jumped the gun on that post.

 

[lawtonfogle]

As an avid player of the Sims 2, I have recently found some (rather old) news articles about a "scandal" having to do with the "nude mods" easily available for the game: article from GameSpot, article from About.com, article from GamingIndustry.biz

While this was apparently right after the little circus that happened with GTA San Andreas' mini-game found through hex-editing the code, I think the issue still has some ethical implications. Do the creators of a game hold responsibility when game users hack the code to include adult situations? Should they be required to better secure their code, so that no hacking is possible? Or are the users responsible if they hack a game to have adult content?

Personally, I think that it is up to individual game owners to make sure their games don't include content they don't want in them. However, I can see some of the view point, that some games are made easy to change, and many people don't want games with lots of sex or violence in them available to their children. While GTA might be sold as "M for Mature" and (store) require that the buyer be 18, The Sims 2 is sold as "T for Teen", but savvy teens can easily make it into a game that would be rated "AO for Adults Only"...

My first thought is this. "Oh ****, if this guy sees what can be done with Morrowwind and Oblivion, he'll die."

On both of those, the community is allowed to custom create what ever they want to, being a very open RPG. Well, both of them also have a mod created by the community which upgrades the skin to look much more realistic (it also improves very small things, such as how a hand grips a weapon or how the arm moves while walking), but it comes with a catch. Normally when you kill someone, you can strip them bare of all their possessions (and remember, this could be 'killed in self defense', you don't have to be a murderer) and they would be left with basic underclothes. To fit with the theme of the rpg, the men would be left with a deerskin (or looked like it) boxers and the women would have deerskin underwear and a bra (this also appears on your own character when you decide to take off all his/her clothing). Of course, the same people who upgraded the skin were also perverts and decided to remove this little piece of censorship and instead make it so that when you stripped them bear, you stripped them bare. My roommate was actually going though and collecting a few different mods to enhance visuals, and also collected this one. From his reaction when he was changing his characters armor, I'm don't think he read about all the mod does.

Then again, to the extent of my knowledge, there are no mods allowing sex into the games, so they may be a bit safer.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Yeah I dont think they should be held accountable.

Funny you mentioned this though. My best friend brings her daughter over to play with my son every other weekend. She is 8 and he is 7. One day Gage said the word sex and we were all like, whoah, where did you hear that word? I asked him about it and he seemed clueless. Then Elizabeth - LOL! - piped up with the explanation. My best friends jaw dropped. She couldn't believe her daughter knew about how to have sex, and my son had the word. She found out it was from Sims 2. We came in the room the other day when the kiddies were on the computer and they were watching a Sims 2 video, and there was a hot tub scene...sigh. Nothing but water shown but the implication was clear. Our children actually learned about the word sex and understood what it was from Sims 2, the irony!

See, another example that 'the talk' shouldn't be a single talk, but a continuous process over the developmental period.

Anyways, I think now is a good time to iterate that the internet isn't a good source of information regarding sex.

 

[cantata]

Is nudity really that terrifying?

I dunno, I just think nudity, especially outside of a sexual context, is not something children should be shielded from anyway. Why should avatars' bodies be covered up in the first place? There's nothing perverse about bodies.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I apologize for misreading your post.

I'm so used to people blaming games and looking for scape goats, I jumped the gun on that post.

Oh no problem I didn't take offense as I often speed skim through posts myself. I agree with you it's the norm to blame the media creators, which is something I'm very against.

 

[JCFantasy23]

See, another example that 'the talk' shouldn't be a single talk, but a continuous process over the developmental period.

Anyways, I think now is a good time to iterate that the internet isn't a good source of information regarding sex.

Well - you're right there on the internet! It never crossed my mind to tell him that, I will bring it up next time. I think when kids are young parents try to mention sex as little as possible and if it's brought up, we kind of skim over it. But if he's learning about it I shouldnt do that. I'm not going into details yet of course, but I can put out the internet thing.

Nothing beats my ex, though. Seriously, when he started asking about sex at a young age, his father put on a inappropriate content to show him what it was.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Is nudity really that terrifying?

I dunno, I just think nudity, especially outside of a sexual context, is not something children should be shielded from anyway. Why should avatars' bodies be covered up in the first place? There's nothing perverse about bodies.

I agree, sigh. Sometimes Gage does see me nude, like when I am changing and he walks in. I dont think about it and he doesn't seem to. I was raised this way too. I dont walk around nude but you know what I mean. With my friends though, they express horror about their kids seeing them nude at all. I guess it's just different upbringing.

I kid you not, Gage's father admonished me when Gage was 7 months old for him seeing me without my shirt on. I didn't breastfeed but STILL. I said I'm his mother, he can't see me as a baby? He just came out of one of these areas after all. He said I could traumatize him.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Is nudity really that terrifying?

I dunno, I just think nudity, especially outside of a sexual context, is not something children should be shielded from anyway. Why should avatars' bodies be covered up in the first place? There's nothing perverse about bodies.

No, but when you have a nude mod for a game (as compared to a game which is naturally nude), and you have some friends over whose sense of decency involves being clothe, or friends who would over react to it, then it can become a worrisome thing.

Also, here in America, nude is associated by most with two things. One is tolliteries(sp?), namely taking a bath/shower. The other is sex. So by default, most people will consider being nude being sexual. But the idea of shielding nudity from children is a some what different topic (though the topic at hand is based off of it) and probably deserves its own thread. There is the problem that anyone who suggest showing nudity to children isn't bad (especially if they are males) will be considered a 'danger to children' by some even if they don't vocalize it. I think it happened to the writer of Harmful to Minors which dives into some really taboo topics.

 

[morningstar2651]

As an avid player of the Sims 2, I have recently found some (rather old) news articles about a "scandal" having to do with the "nude mods" easily available for the game: article from GameSpot, article from About.com, article from GamingIndustry.biz

While this was apparently right after the little circus that happened with GTA San Andreas' mini-game found through hex-editing the code, I think the issue still has some ethical implications. Do the creators of a game hold responsibility when game users hack the code to include adult situations? Should they be required to better secure their code, so that no hacking is possible? Or are the users responsible if they hack a game to have adult content?

Personally, I think that it is up to individual game owners to make sure their games don't include content they don't want in them. However, I can see some of the view point, that some games are made easy to change, and many people don't want games with lots of sex or violence in them available to their children. While GTA might be sold as "M for Mature" and (store) require that the buyer be 18, The Sims 2 is sold as "T for Teen", but savvy teens can easily make it into a game that would be rated "AO for Adults Only"...

Developers shouldn't be held accountable for what people create in mods. Mod, for those who don't know, is short for modification. It's when people outside the company that developed the game make new content for the game. Mods are a good way for people to break into the game industry.

Also, for reference, an AO rating guarantees the game will never break even. Most retailers won't touch 'em, and if the game doesn't sell at Wal-Mart, then the company will most likely lose money on their game.