Should Video Game Creators be Held Accountable for Adult Themed Mods?

[morningstar2651]

Here in America, sex in games is taboo and violence sells games. On the other side of the pond, it's almost entirely opposite. Violence is taboo and sex sells games in Europe (for the most part).

 

[cantata]

Here in America, sex in games is taboo and violence sells games. On the other side of the pond, it's almost entirely opposite. Violence is taboo and sex sells games in Europe (for the most part).

I'm not sure I agree. Sex definitely sells games in America. People bought Tomb Raider in America, right? What about Xtreme Beach Volleyball? If that isn't sex selling games, I don't know what is. And I can tell you that sales of the GTA series (which is, by the way, a product of dear old Scotland) are very high in Europe, and people are always, for better or worse, complaining about the violence in those games.

While the taboo against violence is perhaps higher here in Europe, and attitudes to sex are more relaxed, I suspect that taboo subjects actually sell more games because gaming is partly about living in a fantasy world where breaking the rules is acceptable.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I always thought that in America, sex is taboo and violence isn't. Doesn't mean some games don't sell based on sex, but while a number of games do have 'sexy characters' in them, the few games with nudity or sex in them (Mass Effect) become big things, even if the sex isn't even inappropriate contentographic and the user has to choose to see it.

In Europe, I thought the things were a bit more balanced, though I am not too familiar with it.

Finally, in Japan is where I thought their sex is like our violence. In fact, I think this stems from a cultural difference, in America the body is 'dirty' while in Japan it isn't viewed like that.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Developers shouldn't be held accountable for what people create in mods. Mod, for those who don't know, is short for modification. It's when people outside the company that developed the game make new content for the game. Mods are a good way for people to break into the game industry.

Also, for reference, an AO rating guarantees the game will never break even. Most retailers won't touch 'em, and if the game doesn't sell at Wal-Mart, then the company will most likely lose money on their game.

Thanks, I should have explained both of those things.

And - for anyone who might have missed it, I don't think that games should be blamed if their content is modded. But I do think that parents who care about where their kids learn of sex from should be aware that such mods are available on the internet.

 

[cantata]

It's a very odd attitude, considering that sex scenes are permissible in film.

As far as I know, games like Mass Effect don't feature any sex simulation where the player has any part in the actual performing of sex scenes. Instead, the game features cut scenes where there are glimpses of sex between the characters. How is this any worse than a sex scene in a film? Why such a furore about it?

 

[WatersMoon110]

I'm not sure I agree. Sex definitely sells games in America. People bought Tomb Raider in America, right? What about Xtreme Beach Volleyball? If that isn't sex selling games, I don't know what is.

In America we have a very strange relationship with sex in video games. For some unknown reason, it is okay in T (for Teen) games to allude to having sex, especially in some comic fashion, but actual sex is not M (for Mature) but an automatic AO (for Adults Only).

 

[Fin12]

It's a very odd attitude, considering that sex scenes are permissible in film.

As far as I know, games like Mass Effect don't feature any sex simulation where the player has any part in the actual performing of sex scenes. Instead, the game features cut scenes where there are glimpses of sex between the characters. How is this any worse than a sex scene in a film? Why such a furore about it?

Playing a computer game is a very involving and hands on experience in terms of expressive art.

The reason their are computer games that are scarier than films, isn't becuase of ratings. It's becuase you aren't watching the fear, you're experiencing it! You are actually partaking as a sentient being in the events happening on screen.

In a cut-scene that doesn't matter, I think parents are worried about sex scenes which would be "playable" (I know it does sound wierd).

 

[lawtonfogle]

It's a very odd attitude, considering that sex scenes are permissible in film.

As far as I know, games like Mass Effect don't feature any sex simulation where the player has any part in the actual performing of sex scenes. Instead, the game features cut scenes where there are glimpses of sex between the characters. How is this any worse than a sex scene in a film? Why such a furore about it?

I don't know of a difference, but often times, a lot of people will look at a movie with a sex scene that is any bit inappropriate contentographic as a detriment for the movie, at least around where I live. But then you do have American Pie and such things, and you do have things like "The Guy Game" and "Playboy Mansion".

 

[cantata]

There's a difference between gratuitous explicitness and an explicit scene which contributes to the plot, though.

I'm quite happy to see breasts or a little thrusting if the kind of sex the characters are having is important to tell us something about their relationship. Sex is a part of people's lives. I find it weird (and frankly, rather unpleasant) that every other important emotional and social aspect of everyday life can be depicted uncensored, but this incredibly powerful thing is for some reason excluded, and more than three thrusts is an instant 18 (NC17) certificate.

And in games, it's no different. If the sex is plot-relevant, go for it. To be honest, I find the alienating, arbitrarily over-sexualised female characters of games like Tomb Raider to be more offensive and to set a worse example than a few sex scenes which further the plot and help the gamer to engage with the characters.

 

[Belk]

Oh Noes! Nude Cartoon people! Quick, sue the pants off EA for allowing their code to be hacked!

 

[pgp_protector]

I remember a few "adult" patches for Quake.

Even the Old Atari 2600 had Adult games.
(and if those games got remade today, there would be a major dustup over them )

 

[Belk]

I remember a few "adult" patches for Quake.

Even the Old Atari 2600 had Adult games.
(and if those games got remade today, there would be a major dustup over them )

I don't remember any 2600 games. But Sinbad http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/sinbad-and-the-throne-of-the-falcon
Got my blood pumping as a young man.

 

[morningstar2651]

Playing a computer game is a very involving and hands on experience in terms of expressive art.

The reason their are computer games that are scarier than films, isn't becuase of ratings. It's becuase you aren't watching the fear, you're experiencing it! You are actually partaking as a sentient being in the events happening on screen.

In a cut-scene that doesn't matter, I think parents are worried about sex scenes which would be "playable" (I know it does sound wierd).

There was a sex mini-game in Fahrenheit that wasn't in the American release (Indigo Prophecy).

Somehow, I don't think that moving a joystick quite simulates the act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_(video_game)#North_American_version_changes

 

[morningstar2651]

Even the Old Atari 2600 had Adult games.
(and if those games got remade today, there would be a major dustup over them )

Those games were crap. They aren't even fun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_'Em_and_Eat_'Em
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer's_Revenge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_Party_(Atari_2600)

 

[SallyNow]

It's not EA's fault if some kids learn to hack the game and create adult-themed custom content.

It's also not EA's fault that I bought Sims 2 and have now created a horrid line of 80's fashion for my Sims. I would love to blame my bad retro sense on EA, but I can't, because it isn't their fault.

What's next, blaming Gene Roddenberry for the Kirk/Spock fanfiction on the 'net?

 

[Sylvanspirits]

I propose we hold the creators of paper responsible for the disruption created in classrooms around the world by the evil known as "the paper airplane". The paper manufacturers have a responsibility to prevent such things, and should have expected this to happen. They must find a way to create paper that cannot be folded, no matter how much time and effort it takes. After all, they should have anticipated people would use it in a way it was never intended to be used.

In a word: No.

 

[cantata]

What exactly are people worried about happening if children seek access to features of games, the content of which they are already aware?

If a child knows that you can make the characters naked, what harm will be done to them by seeing them naked? If they know that, once naked, they can make the characters look like they're having sex, what harm will be done by them seeing the characters look like they're having sex? If they're able to get as far as modding the game, they clearly know what to expect from seeing nudity and sex anyway, or they are curious enough about it that if they don't watch it on The Sims II, they'll find it elsewhere on the internet.

 

[mpok1519]

As an avid player of the Sims 2, I have recently found some (rather old) news articles about a "scandal" having to do with the "nude mods" easily available for the game: article from GameSpot, article from About.com, article from GamingIndustry.biz

While this was apparently right after the little circus that happened with GTA San Andreas' mini-game found through hex-editing the code, I think the issue still has some ethical implications. Do the creators of a game hold responsibility when game users hack the code to include adult situations? Should they be required to better secure their code, so that no hacking is possible? Or are the users responsible if they hack a game to have adult content?

Personally, I think that it is up to individual game owners to make sure their games don't include content they don't want in them. However, I can see some of the view point, that some games are made easy to change, and many people don't want games with lots of sex or violence in them available to their children. While GTA might be sold as "M for Mature" and (store) require that the buyer be 18, The Sims 2 is sold as "T for Teen", but savvy teens can easily make it into a game that would be rated "AO for Adults Only"...

a good hacker can rework any line of code to do exactly what he wants it to do, regardless of security measures; thats what they get paid for. If theres someone who has made an 'unhackable' code, there is someone out there hacking it out.

and they get paid alot of money to do just that.

 

[YamiB]

I think that most of the people who actually support this kind of idea don't really understand what they're talking about and realize how separate a mod is from the actual game.

I'll go a little further and say that the Hot Coffee incident was not Rockstars fault.

 

[stan1980]

Do the creators of a game hold responsibility when game users hack the code to include adult situations?

On the one hand I applaud you for starting a thread that has stimulated interesting discussion, on the other hand, what a stupid bloody question that is! I mean that in the nicest possible way